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 Post subject: NFL Monday QB, Mora Interview......
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:20 pm 
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He's basically saying how we have a very young team & it's going to be exciting watching them going forward.

Ditka said that when Vick stays in the pocket it tales away his X factor. Allen said that the more guys play & watch film the easier it becomes to prepare for Vick & he may just be average once the rest of the league is used to playing him.

Scary stuff to think about.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:24 pm 
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And all of a sudden Vince Young looks very good ;).

I don't think the league will ever be able to contain Vick completely. Even if his passing doesn't improve anymore. He will always break containment and get seems. It won't be as often and it might be shorter gains. But Vick will never be completely contained.

The only concern I have is what happens if Vick eventually becomes an average NFL Quarterback and his electricty is gone? We would be locked down with a pretty big contract for a guy that could very well become a 2nd string Quarterback. Now don't mis-read this. I don't think that is the route Vick is going to go nor am I'm I going to panic. I still think most of Vick's woes are the offensive line and his inability to set his feet. But it is a possible future.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:48 pm 
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One thing I noticed that nobody is talking about it that Vick basically quit running after he got hit by Urlacher on that one play.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:54 pm 
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The_Incomparable wrote:
One thing I noticed that nobody is talking about it that Vick basically quit running after he got hit by Urlacher on that one play.


Well I would've too :lol: ...

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:31 pm 
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I would caution anyone who is looking to give up on Vick.

But I'm afraid that I'm losing patience with this offensive scheme and philosphy. I'd hate to force Vick into another O Coordinator or another playbook. But I don't think that this type of system helps him be successful. And without a dominant run defense/pass rush, next year might be much of the same in terms of win/loss.

The problem with the system is the small offensive lineman. They don't have the physical ability or the skills to provide adequate protection for anything but a short passing game. And Vick embarrasses himself trying to hit those short routes (when he takes something off on his throws, they just go errant on him). Vick is great when he can put his armstrength to good use (a lot more accurate). He needs a good pocket, and/or time to set his feet when rolling.

Michael Vick may improve in his short passing game. But there is so much accuracy needed to control a game in a true west coast offense (3 to 5 yard routes) that I don't think he could manage that much improvement. He's better off throwing the 10 to 15 yard routes with checkoffs to the RB (or better with the RB running a fly pattern against a LB). In a controlled environment, I think 4 deep threats a game would be successful and efficient. But he's got to have time to make the accurate read/throw.

The bigger lineman should keep less pressure in the backfield. And this should provide him more lanes to tuck and run if needed. And this is his biggest threat (turning the coverage sack into a first down). But he can't have so much penetration by so many defenders.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:05 pm 
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I love how everyone and their momma now amongst the talking heads are saying that Vick needs to go back to running. It was only 6 or so weeks ago after that Jet game, that everyone was saying the Falcons wouldn't be better until he threw the ball better.

There's no doubt in my mind that Vick was intimidated by the Bears defense. He looked tentative and scared. But I think that's because he was overcompensating for his weak ribs, and not willing to jeopardize his health and possibly the rest of the team's season to go 110% out there. Now, it's up to you to figure out if you think that was right or wrong.

I still believe that the Falcons' ultimate success will come on the arm of Michael Vick. In the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the playoffs, his running ability is probably not going to be a deciding factor. At that point in the postseason, you are usually facing disciplined and talented defenses that are going to be able to do what the Bears did, what the Bucs do, and what the Eagles have done twice against Vick in that type of setting, and contain Vick's running ability. Those teams are going to have the Jevon Kearses, Alex Browns, Simeon Rices, Mike Ruckers, etc. that are going to be able to contain his left side scrambling, and limit him.

So it's going to come down to his throwing ability, and also the receivers and tight ends abilities to catch the ball. Holding onto the football was a problem once more last night, although a bit understandable due to the conditions.

I don't think small linemen are inherently bad, but I think we need to upgrade ours. We can still stay small, but we just need to get better guys. You can look at many of the teams over the years that have had some of the biggest lines, and they aren't particularly good either (Cardinals, Eagles, and Raiders a few years back had lines that combined for 1600 pounds or more). It's not about size, it's about strength, leverage, technique, and athletic ability. It's the guys that do those 4 things the best that are the best OL in the league. We need to get better guys that upgrade in those areas.

We don't need to go out and get guys that are 320 pounds and stuff. The Broncos line was just as small if not smaller a few years back. And what they did was those 4 areas. They had veterans that knew all the angles, had great technique and such. They had young athletic guys that were learning from these veterans. One might say the Broncos lines of the late 90s wouldn't be as successful today as it was then because linemen have gotten bigger and more athletic. I'd agree with that latter statement, but the degree of difference between the caliber of DL in 1998 as opposed to 2005 is minimal IMO. But if you look at who were the top DTs and pass rushers then as now, it's still the guys that were like Wayne Martin, John Randle, and are like Rod Coleman, and La'Roi Glover, the "undersized" guys between 275-290 pounds. The scope of that position really hasn't changed. Teams tend to fall in love with these 330 pound athletes nowadays, but you're going to find more Gerard Warrens among them than Shaun Rogers. It was the same back then.

You look at the Eagles, whose starting OL weighs about an average of 325, and ours which is about 295. Is the Eagles line more talented than ours? Definitely. But are they playing better than ours? Nope. Do they have the opposite dilemma? Do they say, we need smaller quicker guys? Or do they simply stay, lets go with the big linemen but we'll just need to get better big linemen.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:13 pm 
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I think the best point in Pudge's post is the mention of veteran offensive linemen. Our line by and large is pretty young all around. We really do need to get guys that are good and have been in the league awhile. Heck I wouldn't even mind bringing in some of those 30 to 32 year old guys that won't make the bucks the 27 year old guys will. I think the older lineman would probably integrate in the line fairly seemlessly while improving it. This team as a whole is young and appears to be suffering a bit because of it.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:24 pm 
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eh....while I totally agree our O line is in need of some help....and I also agree that we will probably get more help from a crafty vet than taking a risk on some high round draft choice I have to say I think the play calling hurts to....I swear I sat on my couch and predicted about 90% of the plays we ran last night....I don't really study film or anything like that either...it's painfully apparent what we are going to do before every snap....we try to get cute to much and run all of these goofy pass plays on first down when Dunn is popping off good runs on a regular basis...I don't get it...the Steelers showed the whole NFL that if you keep punching the Bears in the mouth they will eventually fold....well we tried to get cute and dance around in the ring when we should have just come out swinging....


arg..........fire all the coaches, release all the players, burn down the dome and let's start all over again....lol.... :D


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:56 pm 
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Steve-O wrote:
eh....while I totally agree our O line is in need of some help....and I also agree that we will probably get more help from a crafty vet than taking a risk on some high round draft choice I have to say I think the play calling hurts to....I swear I sat on my couch and predicted about 90% of the plays we ran last night....I don't really study film or anything like that either...it's painfully apparent what we are going to do before every snap....we try to get cute to much and run all of these goofy pass plays on first down when Dunn is popping off good runs on a regular basis...I don't get it...the Steelers showed the whole NFL that if you keep punching the Bears in the mouth they will eventually fold....well we tried to get cute and dance around in the ring when we should have just come out swinging....


arg..........fire all the coaches, release all the players, burn down the dome and let's start all over again....lol.... :D


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:42 pm 
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Holy crap, that was a football game last night? I was wondering what I was watching.

Young guys, stay in the pocket, bad o-line. The comments change week to week, but one thing remains, this team has no real idea of what it wants to be.

One week they look fantastic, the next they look like pop-warner. Run the ball, next week don't run the ball, make long pass plays, next week all short passes. I understand trying to scheme to the opponents weaknesses, but damn do they even watch the film or look at the injury lists?

You have the QB in the league with the strongest arm playing a questionable secondary and you want to run three plays with the slowest back in the game on a slippery field. And the same play at that, three times. Hell, i can see the thoughts in the coaches heads, "Hmm, this didn't work the first two times, so I will run it again because they would not expect me to be that stupid. Heh, heh."


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:58 am 
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Play calling was atrocious last night. I think that is the consensus biggest complaint about Knapp. He's inconsistent when it comes to play calling. There have been several games this year that he's called brilliant games. But there have been too many others where he's called terrible ones. I'm not sure which ones outnumber the other, but I'd probably say that he's got more good/decent ones than bad ones.

There has not been anything consistent about any of this team with exception to Warrick Dunn. Even Crumpler's sure-handedness has disappeared over the past few games. Oddly enough, it seems that once Vick started throwing the ball better to his receivers, Crumpler has dropped 1 or 2 passes per game. Through the first 9 games, based on Cap's weekly breakdowns, Crump had just 3 drops. Between the first Bucs game in Week 11 and thru Week 14 vs. Saints, Crump has had 6. You may be able to add 2 or 3 more from last night's game (I'll wait until Cap's official total). That is 8 or so in 5 games. Dez White wasn't even that bad, having like 4 or so in 3 or 4 games.

I really hope the Falcons can make the playoffs, even though I don't expect them to do much even if they do. I'm already looking forward to next season to see what improvements and changes we make. Making the playoffs could build some decent momentum for 2006.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:46 am 
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I think Crump is frustrated with having to stay in & block so much instead of making plays & helping to take the load off of Vick. Crump is the one guy who I know believes in Vick & will do anything he can to make Vick look good, but blocking for him on passing plays is not what Crump needs to be doing. It seems like the more he has had to block the worse his hands have gotten.


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