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 Post subject: Changes ahead? A look at what I would like to see happen...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:41 am 
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When I look at this team, like everyone else, the holes are obvious & glaring. We need a ton of help on both lines, we need a quality coverage Safety, we really do need another quality corner that can man cover the #2 WR's in our division, and we need a big time kicker (Peterson is quality, but we need our Vinatieri).

The problems with deciding what we're going to take and the moves we're going to make is that we don't know who is going to coach some key positions next year. QB coach has to be filled, but is of the least concern when it comes to this draft & our future. Line coach is a big issue right now with us waiting to see if Gibbs comes back or Tice takes the job. Personally, I am hoping for Tice. The other issue is who will be our Strength & Condiditioning coach. This is important for our future, but no so much in terms of the draft.

Going under the assumption that we will hire Tice and that we will be looking to maximize the talent we have at linebacker rather than trading them away for low round picks, I will construct a blueprint that could build the nucleus of our team for the future. This plan will use some of the moves that I have suggested previously and will require you, and our Front Office, to think outside the box a little bit.

*Disclaimer - this is what i would like for us to do, moreso than what I think the Falcons will do. If they do it, then I believe it would make for a powerful adjustment to our team that could have us starting a dynasty run within a couple years.

____________________________________________________________________________

First & foremost, we will have to move Schaub because he will be gone after next year & we will get a pick in next year's much weaker draft instead of a pick in the best draft class in the past 20 years. Moving him before the draft is a borderline must, as his value would bring an extra top 50 pick and that is huge in this draft as it is a first rounder in any other draft.

Secondly, we don't worry about Duckett. He is still good on the goal line & that is something we need quite frankly. He won't be leaving because he knows he won't get any money.

Third, we have a talk with Vick. We let him know that we gave him that money because we see him being the Michael Jordan of this sport, and that Jordan needed a lot of help to win Championships. We tell him that we plan on getting him the rest of his help NOW, so that the team will be ready to follow him to the promised land in a year or two.

Also, we hire Mike Tice to help us draft & build the kind of O line we need here. He likes a couple of the linemen of course, but thinks we could get bigger & sturdier on the left side in order to improve our pass protection & become a more consistent running attack (we all know our run game gets shut down by good D's).

Finally, Blank has a conversatin with the coaches & Front Office to let them know that Home Depot was not built in 3 years. It takes time to get the pieces in place to make the dynasty run we Atlanta fans have waited for over 40 years, and we're going to line this team up to make it happen ASAP. What this means is that Blank will not make any decisions on coaches or FO personnel based on the 2006 or 2007 seasons. We will be looking to bring in more talent, but that will cost us experience once again. We want to give Knapp as much oppotunity to build this team properly as we can and it begins with the 2006 NFL Draft.

____________________________________________________________________________

We trade Schaub for the Jets' 2nd round pick, 36th overall. Pennington cannot be relied upon, and they will probably not have a shot at either of the 2 top QB's. Mangini saw first hand what Schaub could bring to the table when we played the Pats this year and supports the move.

We trade down in the first with the Steelers for their 1st this year, 2nd this year, and their 3rd next year since this year's picks are worth much more

We realease/don't re-sign a lot of the vets, including Shaffer, Edwards, White, King, Flowers, Pathon, Carpenter, Heard, & then Detmer retires. This leaves a lot of room for the draftees and FA signings we make. Hopefully, Dunn restructures but I highly doubt it so I'm not going to include it.

We sign these players in the FA period: Travis Hall, Chris Hope, Andre Davis, a veteran backup QB (Brooks maybe?), and some fillers & special teamers. We may not be able to afford much more than this, especially if we're going to have the number of picks I am suggesting. ____________________________________________________________________________

Welcome to the 2006 National Football League Amateur Draft.

The Houston texans are on the clock:

1) Vince Young - Texans
2) Matt Leinart - Saints
3) Reggie Bush - Titans
4) D'Brickashaw Ferguson - Jets
5) Mario Williams - Green Bay
6) Michael Huff - Raiders
7) AJ Hawk - 49ers
8) Haloti Ngata - Bills
9) Jimmy Williams - Lions
10) Winston Justice - Cardinals
11) Rams - Tamba Hali
12) DeAngelo Williams - Browns
13) Jay Cutler - Ravens
14) Santonio Homes - Eagles
15) Lendale White - Steelers
16) Johnathan Scott - Dolphins
17) Laurence Maroney - Vikings
18) Chad Greenway - Cowboys
19) Ko Simpson - Chargers
20) Tye Hill - Chiefs
21) Mathias Kiwanuka - Broncos (from Redskins)
22) Bobby Carpenter - Patriots
23) Eric Winston - Bucs
24) Antonio Cromartie - Giants
25) Leonard Pope - Bears
26) Manny Lawson - Jags
27) Marcedes Lewis - Bengals
28) Brodrick Bunkely - Colts
29) Rod Wright - Falcons
30) Demeco Ryans - Seahawks
31) Claude Wroten - Panthers
32) Pat Watkins - Broncos

The rest of the Falcons draft:

2a) 36th overall - Marcus McNeil
2b) 47th overall - Johnathan Joseph
2c) 61st overall - Ray Edwards
3) 79th overall - Jason Allen
4) 111th overall - Conner Hughes
5) 143rd overall - Marcus Maxey/Devin Hester
6) 175th overall - Patrick Ross
7) 207th overall - Willie Reid


Our defense next year would look like this:
Hope DeMo Williams

Webster/Joseph D.Hall
Brooking Hartwell Boley
T.Hall/Edwards Wright Coleman Kerney

I think Joseph & Edwards could beat out Hall & Webster by the end of the year, so I put them as a partial starter. That has the potential to be a very good defnsive unit with our coaches & the veterans sprinkled throughout. Jason Allen is our DeMo insurance policy, just in case. Cash, Allen, and Maxey will assure we have enough TRUE corners to play nickel & dime when the need arises.

Our offense next year would be this:


Jenkins McNeil Ross/Lehr McClure/Lehr Forney Weiner Crumpler R.White
Vick
Griffith
Dunn

This would add a good bit of size & power to our line, and should improve our passblocking as the young guys gain experience. Dunn could get lost behind a left side of McNeil & Ross, and moving Lehr to Center would add even more size.

While it is not the sexiest offseason & draft, it is the ideal situation for us as it fixes our obvious holes with both veterans and young guys who could start pretty quickly if the need should arise. I think Wright's size & athleticism, as with McNeil's, make them ideal high picks & day one starters. Allen had a shot to start from day one, as does Joseph, if either shows they are clearly ready to take on the Mark Claytons & Kerry Colberts of our division. Signing travis Hall is a cheaper alternative to Brady Smith and adds a solid veteran to help the rookie on that side of the line. McNeil will get a trial by fire unfortuantely, as he takes on the Rices & Ruckers in our division. His will be the toughest job of all, but his athleticism & natural strength will help him greatly in handling the task.

Overall, this is exactly what I would like to see the Falcons do because within a couple years it could make for a dynasty team. The young linemen will need time to develop & get used to playing in the NFL, so i don't expect this to make us instantly better. Over time though, it will make us so much better and it will allow our stud players to make more plays more consistently.

I know this is not the popular view on things, but if we draft Safeties and small linemen we're going to end up getting bounced out of the playoffs regularly by the Carolinas, Seattles, and Philadelphias in the NFC. Even the Redskins have a highly touted offensive line with high draft picks. At some point the Falcons have to quit thinking glory picks and start thinking what will make our team better over the long run. I really like Huff, DeAngelo Williams, and some of the other guys who might be there at the 15th pick, but what we need to do is get together a lot of picks and address our problems up front. It's the only way we're going to end up where we want to be, which is on top of the NFC for years.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:20 pm 
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No comments? Feel free to discuss :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:44 pm 
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A very interesting read. Obviously you've put quite a bit of thought into this.
As is normal. I agree with some things posted and others I have to disagree.

We should get a good hire for the O-Line whether it be Gibbs, Tice or the guy from Green Bay (sorry, his name escapes me).

I'll address the kicker situation first. I agree that we need a stronger leg than Peterson has to offer but I don't see any FA available that won't come with a larger price tag. I would rather spend the money elsewhere and have Peterson. This doesn't mean I wouldn't try to give him solid competition in camp.

I completly agree with the idea of moving Schaub but I think we might be able to get a higher pick than a second. Might have to include a future pick but I would want a first for him. Several teams are rumored to covet him and Leinart and Young will be off the board quickly.
I would move Duckett for a third or fourth if that is all we can get. It's better than keeping him another year and letting him walk for nothing.

I think it's safe to say Knapp and Donatell are going nowhere.

As to the draft I think McKay will take the pick or trade down a few slots. GM's normally aren't keen on trading down too many slots and McKay has said he doesn't like to do it.

I agree that many of our UFA's will not be re-signed.
I would bet Pittsburgh doesn't let Hope walk so my targets at the safety position are Tank Williams and Lance Schulters. Yes, two vets as I don't care for starting rookie DB's unless they are drafted in the top ten. I would like the signing of Andre Davis, especially if we lose Finn however Travis Hall has too many injury concerns for my taste.

The CBA will be critical for us as we need to rework several contracts to free up some dollars as well as prevent some guys from becomming UFA's. Contracts that need attention: Patrick Kerney (extend and restructure), Todd Weiner, Warrick Dunn. To free up more dollars I would release Brady Smith and Bryan Scott. I expect Kevin Mathis to retire.

Getting back to the draft, I would have a hard time passing on Kiwi. A speed rushing end that should be able to add about 10 pounds. I also have my eye on Yobouty and if we could move Schaub (and maybe a future pick to sweeten the deal if necessary) to select this kid I would do so. We would have the best two corners on the field at the same time in the history of the franchise. I would draft a physical safety, or possibly even two, on day one. Bing, Blue, Slay are all good options.

I don't think anyone will debate the weaknesses of the team are in the secondary, offensive line and defensive end.

"Defense wins championships"


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:51 pm 
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The_Incomparable wrote:
No comments? Feel free to discuss :D


How can you have the Texans getting a QB? They need a RB BADLY, and already have put a lot of time and money into Carr

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:57 pm 
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But other then that, i havent really heard of any of the people your talking about...I don't really like to research a lot of player's...usually i'll know them from watching them play, or I won't know them at all. Definatly would love to get Schulter's, for some experience to our younger players. I think, somehow, we get Huff...thats just a hunch

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:03 pm 
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Well first off, I'll say that the team is not talking to Tice to be an asst. coach (per Falcons Insider).

Despite what you may believe, fact is I think the Broncos and Panthers prove that you can win with small lines. The Seahawks have a small line, the Colts have a small line, the Patriots have a small line. Now, are their lines are small as ours? Probably not. But people put way too much emphasis on the discrepancy of 5-10 pounds. It's not size that matters at all, it's ability. This team has made a commitment and has shown great success running the football with guys that move well, get after LBs and DBs quickly, and make cut blocks. Why would you want to change up the formula? Because none of our guys are great pass protectors? What does size really bring to the table in terms of pass protection? Not really a whole lot, just some strength. But again a guy like Denver's Matt Lepsis proves that you can be small and strong. It's more about technique, balance, hand use, etc. in pass protection than it is about strength. Strength definitely helps no doubt, but give me the quick guy that is 300 pounds going against a speed rusher than the massive 320-pound guy who couldn't dream of moving quick enough to stop Simeon Rice! I'm not saying that we should only look at guys 310 pounds or less, because there are big guys out there that would work well in our scheme. George Foster (338), Chad Clifton (330), Tarik Glenn (335) are just a few names. I think weight is a factor when guys are small (its more about upper body strength), but it does become a factor with guys that big and larger, because you have to worry about playing shape. When guys get that big, you're talking about 20% body fat and higher, and frankly that just means that guys are not in great shape. And when you're talking about poor playing shape, you're talking about inconsistent work ethic and effort. We need to focus on upgrading the talent of hte players (not their belt sizes), and need to be looking foremost at guys that fit the scheme. Are they mobile? Can they block downfield? Can they pass protect on an island? Are they smart? Do they make a lot of mistakes? I re-watched that final game vs. the Bucs the other day, and I noticed that Simeon Rice didn't really have an impact in that game. Shaffer had him pretty much locked up. I also noticed on a few plays, Todd McClure driving Booger McFarland off the ball without any help. Does that mean both guys are definite keepers? No, but it shows they have the potential to excel. As we are working to add talent to the line, we need to be finding ways of getting these guys to play to the most of their ability. That's why I advocate both adding players in the draft (for the future), and picking up some veteran free agents that can challenge for starting jobs. If a guy is in June, July, and August fighting for his starting spot, you're assuming he's going to be pushing himself to play his best. That's why a guy like Trey Teague looks like a good FA pickup. He's started at both LT and C in this league, and has the ability and experience to play any position on the line. At the very least, he's a utility backup, at best, he becomes a starter and improves one of the 5 positions up front.

I'll say also I'm not at all a fan of your draft. Besides the selections of Joseph, Maxey, and Reid, you've picked a bunch of players that I would hate to be on this team. Wright is lazy. McNeill is not a bad pick, but when guys get that big (around 340), it's not often you find them in shape and consistent. Edwards is a quitter. Allen might develop into a quality coverage safety, but I have high concerns about his injuries. A rookie kicker is not going to be an upgrade over a 90% field goal kicker, you can bet a million dollars on that. Ross is an in-line blocker and doesn't have the mobility to block in this scheme.

Chris Hope is not an upgrade over our current safety situaiton. Occassionally Hope shows flashes of ability. But he's a liability in run support just as much as Scott/Carpenter/Heard were this past year, and he makes a lot of mental errors. He's only effective if he's lined up beside a Pro Bowler to help cover his mistakes, and even Polamalu is not Superman, and can't do it all.

Davis isn't a bad signing, adds some speed to the No. 4 receiver spot. Hopefully the offensive coaching staff will better try to utilize that speed and that of Roddy White in 2006.

Hall was once a valuable reserve, but I'm not sure he would make our team in 2006 even though I think we missed him this past year. I expect Lavalais and Babs to make significant strides next year.

Also, I agree with DenimJacket. Trading down is an option, but it seems you're trading down for trading down's sake rather than looking at our options at #15. The point of trading down is that if you feel the talent at #15 is as good as it would be if you traded down 5, 10, or 15 spots. In this case, it definitely is not.

Passing up on White, Scott, Maroney, Greenway, Simpson, HIll, Kiwanuka, Carpenter, Pope, and Lewis who are all much better players than Wright, just is a bad move. WHite is a future Pro Bowler. Maroney would be too behind our line. Simpson is a better option at safety than Allen or Hope. Greenway, Carpenter, Pope, and Lewis all play positions that aren't needs, but have Pro Bowl talent. Wright, frankly is a bum. Some team is going to draft him, because his upside is high. But talk about someone who is a #3 DT, you are talking about Wright. He had a great year when he had a real NFL DT playing beside him named Marcus Tubbs. Since then, he is not an impact player. I mean I believe he had ZERO tackles in the Bowl game vs. USC. If you thought Reggie Bush was a disappointment, at least he had an impact on the game. Wright was absolutely invisible. Sure, it's likely that both USC's guards will be drafted this year, and Lutui may even be a 1st round pick, but even if you're facing top competition, if you are truly a top talent, you're going to do something.

Comp, of course you are entitled to your opinions, and I don't mean to bash or rag on your post. But frankly, those moves seem to be the complete opposite of what you're advocating, translating to us taken SEVERAL steps backwards.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:09 am 
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I just wanted to say that I think Willie Reid will go much higher than a 7th round pick. He's from my hometown and I have followed his career. He ran a 4.3 over Christmas break here if I am correct and supposedly has said he thinks he can get to a 4.25. Also according to a local article I read on him today before the Orange Bowl he had 5 teams who showed interest in him and after the Orange Bowl he now has 22 teams who have shown interest. So I just think he'll go higher, but I would love to draft him though.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:40 am 
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Well Pudge, the fact is we will skip over a guy with better ability just because he is bigger. McNeil is 6'9", 350lbs, and runs a 4.98; but we won't take him according to most because he is too big. He looks just like Bryant McKinnie to me, so I would take him at 15 before I would take Maroney, White, or any of those other players you mentioned. He didn't give up a single sack in his college career and he has lead the way for Brown, Williams, & Irons over the last 2 years.

As for Wright, he is a very talented guy. He is also very big at 6'5", 310lbs. He could easily end up being better than anyone in this draft as he has all the ability in the world. It seems like every big guy in this draft has been tagged as lazy and I find that laughable at best. I remember when they questioned Richard Seymour's motor, or effort, or they're calling it these days before his draft. You don't get through spring practice, lifting, conditioning, & everything else that being a big time college player entails without having a good work ethic. Do big guys get gassed in games? Of course they do. Hell corners get gassed in games. Jerry Rice made a living of schooling worn out corners in the second half for the 49ers. Wright also does not carry around all the extra weight that Watson & Ngata do, so he is still pretty agile. I have to admit he looked damn good stuffing Lendale White on those 4th down plays too.

Edwards is a quitter? Who exactly said this & why? It sounds more like the coach quit on he & Pollard when they started losing more than the other way around. I have never seen so many top notch linemen get labeled lazy, quitter, or whatever else in my life. It amazes me that none of this was a huge story during the course of the season, because you would think it would be if it were truly being said. The only one I have been able to confirm is Watson, whose coach said he was sitting him due to lack of effort.

Chris Hope is meant to be a coverage guy, while DeMo is the run support Safety. I don't expect anything from our young players but what they have already shown. They really didn't progress much at all during the season and I get the feeling it is the general lack of talent that is killing us. This team has always been terrible and, obviously, a big part of that problem is a lack of talent or lack of production from the talent we do have.

I didn't trade down for the sake of trading down, I traded down to that spot because Pittsburgh is the only team likely to move up because I see them wanting White bad.

None of this is very popular, but it is meant to take a few steps back so we can take a huge leap forward over the next couple of years. The main focus on my draft was to get a few high picks in order to bring in some great young linemen. The Atlanta fans are so distracted with the sexy pick, that our line has suffered for YEARS and has never improved. Sure they can cut block people & get after the linebackers, but can they really move the line when it matters? Not a chance. I know we won't go this direction because McKay doesn't like big D linemen & the Gibbs scheme does not call for big O linemen drafted early, but I put it out there because drafting Huff or Simpson is like putting a band aid on a gunshot wound. Cadillac, DeShaun, & Deuce will have a field day on our defense again next year if we don't get better up front, and if we do it through FA it is going to cost us a pretty penny & put us right up against the cap again next year.

And yeah, Willie Reid may very well go in the 5th or 6th round, as well as Allen may go in the 2nd. McNeil may go in the first, but it is a general blueprint for what we need to do & who I would like to see here so I just went by a few mocks I have seen as to who would be there at each pick...

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:54 am 
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The_Incomparable wrote:
The Atlanta fans are so distracted with the sexy pick, that our line has suffered for YEARS and has never improved. Sure they can cut block people & get after the linebackers, but can they really move the line when it matters? Not a chance. I know we won't go this direction because McKay doesn't like big D linemen & the Gibbs scheme does not call for big O linemen drafted early, but I put it out there because drafting Huff or Simpson is like putting a band aid on a gunshot wound.


No improvement? Fact is, the Falcons improved by 23% in terms of sacks allowed per game, and improved by 38% in terms of sacks allowed per dropback. That translates to improvement in my book, and the books of most people. We gained more first downs (3% increase) and more positive yardage (15% increase in not allowed negative yards on carries) this year while having less big plays (15% decrease) and yards per carry (6% decrease), which tells me that we may not have been able to hit the homerun as well, but we got more efficient running the football.

We were 2nd in the league in rushing for 1st downs on 3rd & Short. Dunn was 4th among all RBs with 20 or more carries on all 3rd downs when going for the 1st down. Vick was 3rd among all players wit 20+ carries on 3rd downs.

If you believe that isn't clearly improvement, then I don't know what can satisfy you? Now, is that improvement to the degree I or anybody else would prefer? No, but our unit made strides this year.

But for the life of me, I don't understand why people are so averse to the "system" that Gibbs employs. I mean it works in Denver, and works extremely well I might add. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the system. I'm sure if you actually research you'll find that the teams with the biggest lines are among the worse in the league. The problem we have is not the system/scheme, its just that we need to get more talent up front. So I understand your wanting to add some young draft picks there, but McNeil and Ross? That's it? No vets? Do you really think McNeill would earn a starting spot on this unit as a rookie? Nope, unless it was vacated by either Shaffer or Weiner.

You listed your potential starting lineup as:

LT - McNeil
LG - Ross
C - Lehr
RG - Forney
RT - Weiner

Do you really believe that this unit would show improvement over last year's unit? Sure, McNeill is much more talented than Shaffer. BUt is he ready to be thrown into the fire and face DEs like Rucker & Rice twice a year. Fact is, with exception to Khalif Barnes this past year, few rookies have been able to come into the league and adjust to the LT position immediately. Most guys never truly do. I mean, you look at the drafts, and you'll have to go back 5, 6, 7, or more years to find a guy that started at LT from Day 1, and didn't struggle through his first 2 or 3 years. Even the great Orlando Pace got off to a slow start in his career.

I'll prepare my own off-season outline, so that you'll get the chance to see what I'm thinking and nitpick mine :)

I'm calling Edwards a quitter, because I question his commitment. He decided to leave Purdue at midseason because he didn't get along with his coach and the team had a disappointing year. Shades of Keyshawn Johnson and Terrell Owens in my book.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:54 pm 
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No improvement? Fact is, the Falcons improved by 23% in terms of sacks allowed per game, and improved by 38% in terms of sacks allowed per dropback. That translates to improvement in my book, and the books of most people. We gained more first downs (3% increase) and more positive yardage (15% increase in not allowed negative yards on carries) this year while having less big plays (15% decrease) and yards per carry (6% decrease), which tells me that we may not have been able to hit the homerun as well, but we got more efficient running the football.

While those stats do cit improvement the only thing that matters is 8-8. Yes we improved stupid "stats" from 2004 but the fact is we regressed as a team. We lost focus in the 2nd half. SO IMO all those stats that we "improved" in is all moot because we had a worse record then the previous year when our stats were worse.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:40 pm 
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vickisthebest wrote:
No improvement? Fact is, the Falcons improved by 23% in terms of sacks allowed per game, and improved by 38% in terms of sacks allowed per dropback. That translates to improvement in my book, and the books of most people. We gained more first downs (3% increase) and more positive yardage (15% increase in not allowed negative yards on carries) this year while having less big plays (15% decrease) and yards per carry (6% decrease), which tells me that we may not have been able to hit the homerun as well, but we got more efficient running the football.

While those stats do cit improvement the only thing that matters is 8-8. Yes we improved stupid "stats" from 2004 but the fact is we regressed as a team. We lost focus in the 2nd half. SO IMO all those stats that we "improved" in is all moot because we had a worse record then the previous year when our stats were worse.


Exactly, and the main reason we went 8-8 is because we got dominated up front everytime we played a team with a good line. Our line wouldn't be better next year, but in a couple or 3 years it would be top notch on both sides.

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 Post subject: Changes ahead the draft
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:09 pm 
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Interesting thoughts Incomparable regards to the draft and free agency.I understand what oyur doing,this is a deep draft and its best to load up on draft picks.I think free agency will be a time to sign at least one safety,maybe andre davis if he comes cheaply enough at receiver and a free agent off lineman.For safety probably Schulters,tank williams or dexter jackson,at off line Kenyatta Walker(tackle),steve neal(guard) and yes I do think we need another kicker that has more range(Ryan Longwell),Def tackle could be sured up with Travis hall or ron Edwards from Buiffalo.I don't know how we are going to do it but we need to free some money up.

Summary free agency:

1.OT Kenyatta Walker
2.S Schulters/Williams or Jackson
3.Longwell
4.DT Hall/Edwards

The Draft

The draft picks you have down would not be the players I would draft.I know your trying to build the lines but also remember the type of system we have is the Gibbs system smaller linemen that are agile.What we need are athletic talented linemen more than big hogs.Now if we go based on your draft picks here is what I would do.

1Jonathan Scott (tackle) would replace weiner at right tackle
2.Greg Blue safety
2.Darryl Tapp Def End
2.Demario minter Corner
3.Nick Manglold Center
4.Steve Fiftia Def Tackle
5.Gerald Riggs Jr running back
6.Drew Olsen QB
7.Jarrod Page safety

Now those are my picks but I probably would not do what you did and move all the way down to the 29 pick but I understand why you did.There are a few players that could be all pro with the 15th selction and moving down to 29 takes all those hopes away most likely.Its a difference between accumlating good players vs one great player possibly.I also think trading schaub is wise so will use your pick of getting a no2 for schuab.Here would be my draft as I would do it.

1.Kiwi
2.Blue (from Jets for Schaub)
2.Collledge OT
3.Joesph( corner)
4.Nick Mangold center
5.Steve fiftia Def Tackle
6.Drew Olsen QB
7.Matt Lentz, guard

I think a pass rusher is needed desperatlry and Kiwi was selected because Jimmy Williams and Huff were already gone.Blue I think can be the def back we need to be the enforcer.Joesph adds a young corner that could develop into a starter.Mangold will repleace Mclue and he anchos the line something he is good at with ohio state.Fiftia while bigger than we normally take can perhaps develop into the other starting def tackle if Lavalais and Shropshire don't pan out.Olsen is the QB we take to perhaps some day develop into a west coast QB and trade later on.Lentz,plays for michigan known for good off linemen and wasn't much else to pick from.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:50 pm 
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Quote:
1.Kiwi
2.Blue (from Jets for Schaub)
2.Collledge OT
3.Joesph( corner)
4.Nick Mangold center
5.Steve fiftia Def Tackle
6.Drew Olsen QB
7.Matt Lentz, guard


I love this draft for the most part. I might take Slay over Colledge or Joseph adding yet another young hitter to the safety position. Love the Mangold pick and their should be several options at QB for us.


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 Post subject: Thanks we need alot of help!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:18 pm 
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You notice that alot of the players are from big schools or highly thought of.Remember the days when Reeve's drafted what terrible terrible picks he came up with.Made you wonder if the falcon's during reeve's administration ever studied the draft.I think Jerry Colangelo is a guy who drafts alot of players from big schools.I gues the theory is if you play at a big school you were good enough to get selected by that school and there is more competition at the school at your position than a smaller school.

I think first and foremost if jimmy williams or huff are not available and kiwi is you take him.You can never have enough pass rushers.Now if Kiwi,Huff and Williams are all gone then it gets real tough.I probably would draft Hali although not quite sold on him but going on others recomendations. With this being a great safety draft I rhink the falcon's could come away with both a strong and free safety but it would be to much to ask both starting. We need to beef up the lines hence kiwi or hali and colledge in second.I don't think Weiner is that good and with his big contract may get cut next year if memory serves correctly.I am not sure if mangold would still be around with our 4th round pick crossing my fingers.Centers usually drop in the draft and I feel mangold could be a pro bowler in the future.We need depth at corner hence the joseph pick and webster may not start after this year so we can groom him to replace webster.Blue can be the knockout hitter we need to inflict some pain on receviers when they come across the middle.Slay,I am not sure about.I have been hearing 2 different things on him good and bad so I left him off.Fifita ,I just hope is around in the 5th since he can rush the passer and play good run defense.I doubt it though with all the teams needing a good def tackle.

You never know about the draft remember last year we all talked about mark roth being the falcon's choice turns out taken in the second round by miami I believe.Remember Ernest Shazor we all though highly of him never got drafted.If this draft went the way I have I would be very happy.You have to maximize every pick look for the best talented players to fill a need.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:58 am 
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Dwayne Slay might well be this year's Shazor, as it is reported he runs a 4.7. I'm a UGA alum and I usually pump our players up but Blue is terrible in coverage and is really little more than a fast LB with poor cover skills. He is not worth the 36th overall pick at all, and we may be able to pull Ko Simpson or Pat Watkins there. Remember, I had Demorrio at Safety & he will be our enforcer. Demorrio has very similar physical tools to Ed Reed, and if we gave him a couple years he could become a Pro Bowl Safety. I do like your picks though for the most part, although they're more similar to my original mock draft. This entire thread was meant to be a kind of "what if" overview as if they had given me the team to run. In no way do I really think they will make any of these moves honestly, but it makes for some interesting conversation as you see.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:08 am 
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i LOVE the McNeill pick. that kid is a BEAST, something the falcons are sorely lacking on the Oline. If they can get Huff or Williams in the 1st and McNeill in the 2nd this will be a successful draft for McKay.


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 Post subject: Thanks Incomparable!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:50 pm 
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Thanks for your opinion especially on Blue.One thing that concerns me with the falcon's is there inability to wrap up the tackle.How many times did we see this year the running back going for alot more yards than they should have because of poor tackling.I want a strong safety that can hit hard but also wrap up.I don't think blue is that guy,and I have had my doubts about blue since some negative info came out on him.Strong safeties are there to be the enforcer,the free safety is the QB and should get the interceptions.Some of these websites have blue as a free safety.correct me if I am wrong but he should be a strong safety.

This draft is much stronger than next years draft and I just hope someone offers us either a 1st or high second for Schaub.I know he is insurance but considering the fact we about have to trade him after next year,next years weak draft compared to this and schaub hasn't even won a game plus he only plays 3-4 games a year how can you not think of getting a valuable extra pick in this draft that could turn out to be a significant part of your team playing full time down the road.

If we don't draft def end in the first then I hope huff is there to pick.He seems to be the cream of the crop as far as doing everything we need.Then in the second I would go after darryl tapp a def end that can at least put pressure on the QB comapred to what we have now which is very questionable.remember championships are built on defense and getting pressure on the QB is vital.We saw what it did to manning and the colts and throughout the playoffs.

Ko Simpson,I just can't see any way he drops to the second.could you imagine the falcon's if they got a 1st for schaub drafting huff as the strong safety and simpson as freee safety with the shaub pick? Then in the second you get tapp,3rd colledge!Wow

1.Huff
1.Simpson
2.Tapp
3.Colledge
4.Mangold

I mean that is 4 starters that could be pro bowlers. In order for this team to get to the next level mckay is going to have to draft his butt off.I don't think I have ever been happy with a falcon's draft there entire time I have followed them.Mckay has had one great draft alot of others that didn't turn out great.Ruskell going to seattle really helped them since they got the linebacker in the 2nd who was def rookie of the year. We may ned to get someone that can help mckay evaluate talant,sort of a asst scout director that can take all the info the falcon scouts come up with and make the best recommendations to mckay.I certainly don't want to draft any stiffs that are jjust going to be special teamers which reeves used to do alot which is another reason we are in this mess not having enough talent.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:30 pm 
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I'd be surprised if Mangold was not taken in the first 50 picks. He's emerging as the top center in this draft, and its doubtful he is going to relinquish that title by April. At least one center has been drafted in the first 50 picks for each of the past 5 drafts (there were 3 in 2003). I would love to have him, but we may not be in a position to get him unless we trade up in Round 2 (right now we are at #47 I believe).

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:32 pm 
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Ok, Comp, here's mine:

This is a bit of what I think could happen, and what I'd like to see happen....

First Round Mock

* indicates trade

1. HOU - Reggie Bush
2. NO - Vince Young
3. TEN - Matt Leinart
4. NYJ - D'Brickashaw Ferguson
5. GB - LenDale White
6. OAK - A.J. Hawk
7. SF - DeAngelo Williams
8. BUF - Mario Williams
9. DET - Tamba Hali
10. ARZ - Haloti Ngata
11. STL - Jonathan Orr
12. CLE - Mathias Kiwanuka
13. BAL - Jimmy Williams
14. PHI - Brodrick Bunkley
15. SD* - Eric Winston
16. MIA - DeMeco Ryans
17. KC* - Santonio Holmes
18. DAL - Bobby Carpenter
19. ATL* - Michael Huff
20. MIN* - Ernie Sims
21. NE - Ashton Youboty
22. DEN - Vernon Davis
23. TB - Winston Justice
24. CIN - Gabe Watson
25. NYG - Claude Wroten
26. CHI - Leonard Pope
27. PIT - Darnell Bing
28. JAC - Richard Marshall
29. SEA - Chad Jackson
30. IND - Joe Addai
31. DEN - Manny Lawson
32. CAR - Laurence Maroney

Falcons Draft

1/ SS Michael Huff, Texas
2/ DE Kamerion Wimbley, Florida State
3a/ CB Tim Jennings, Georgia
3b/ FS Greg Blue, Georgia
3c/ OT Daryn Colledge, Boise State
4/ OG Mark Setterstrom, Minnesota
5/ CB Justin Wyatt, USC
6/ RB Cedric Humes, Virginia Tech
7/ TE Quinn Sypniewski, Colorado


Kevin Shaffer signs elsewhere for a more lucrative contract.

Players cut:
DE Brady Smith
TE Eric Beverly

Contracts re-worked:
RB Warrick Dunn
T Todd Weiner
DE Patrick Kerney
LB Keith Brooking

Traded:
RB T.J. Duckett - to Pittsburgh for a 3rd round pick.

Re-signed:
T Barry Stokes - good depth.
S Keion Carpenter - insurance reasons and the fact he was our best safety in 2005.
S Omare Lowe - valuable on special teams.
K Todd Peterson - 90% accuracy, period.

Key Free Agent signings:
T Trey Teague - veteran that can be at the very least a utility backup, but will be slotted to replace Shaffer at LT for the short-term.
G Dan Neil - wily vet signed to push for starting job at LG.
QB Sage Rosenfels - slated to take over #2 job from Schaub in 2007, but the #3 for now.
RB Ron Dayne - signed to replace Duckett as #2 runner.
DE Ryan Denney - signed to replace Brady Smith as a 2-down role player.
S Marlon McCree - slotted to fill FS job for near future.
WR Andre Davis - expected to fill #4 job.

So here is the new depth chart:

QB Vick ... Schaub ... Rosenfels
RB Dunn ... Dayne ... Humes/Cobb
FB Griffith ... Dudley
WRs Jenkins/White ... Finneran/A.Davis
TE Crumper ... Blakley ... Sypniewski
LT Teague ... Colledge
LG Neil ... Setterstrom
C Lehr/McClure
RG Forney
RT Weiner ... Omiyale

LDE Kerney ... Davis
NT Lavalais ... Lake
UT Coleman ... Babs
RDE Wimbley/Denney
LB Demo/Boley
LB Hartwell ... Beck
LB Brooking ... Reese
CB Hall ... Cash/Mathis ... Wyatt
CB Webster ... Jennings
SS Huff ... Carpenter ... Scott
FS Jackson ... Blue ... Lowe

K Peterson
P Koenen
LS Rackley

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 Post subject: OK I can live with that!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:35 pm 
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Interesting draft and moves pudge. A few comments about your proposed pronostications. So the falcon's trade down to 19 and pick up an extra third and still get Huff? It it does happen that would be great.


Thoughts on the draft:

1.Huff - I have no problem taking him in the first.The most complete safety that can also play corner.Gives us more options than just a safety.Think of the blitzes from the safety position Huff could create havoc since he is fast.
2.Wimberley - Can wimberley develop enough to start his first year? Is he big enough so he doesn't ware down? While I haven't seen him play alot I hear he can get to the QB which is a must for this team.I also heard he isn't good at stopping the run but how many def ends can at 260 pounds or below.
3.Tim Jennings - read up on jennings my question can he eventually be a starter? He is small but there are a few players in the NFL that are small that are productive.Why did you take him overJonathan Joeseph ?
3.Greg Blue - you think he will drop this far? If so good pick!
3.Colledge - if he last this long great pick
4.Setterstrom - another good pick
5.Wyatt - could be a situational player,plays in the big games worth a gamble
6.Humes -brusing runner could give griffith a rest now and then
7.Synieweski - tall tight end 6-7 don't know alot about him

Free agents -

Tegue and Dan Neil if we go the short term route good pickups.They have been around should cost less and as long as we have players behind them developing ok.I agree with rosenfels but why not trade schaub if rosenfels is signed?Denney I could live with so the rookie and davis don't have as much pressure to produce.Mcree don't know alot about can he be a starter and will he produce.Dayne I agree with would replace duckett.

Don't mine signing petersen again just wish we had a kicker that could kick beyond 40 yards consistently.

I thinl your right about mangold his stock will rise.I take it eslinger won't be there and I would hate to blow a 2nd rounder on a center.How many years have we had no competition for mclure? If we could trade schaub replace with rosenfels we could get that center or some other player that could be a fixture for years.

I know the cons of not trading schaub but if the falcon's do get a decent offer and don't trtade him I will be upset.Part of building a team is knowing what may happen in the future and getting the best value when you can and have the opportunity.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:59 pm 
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Well I didn't have Schaub traded in this assessment because i don't think he will be. The guy I would target to replace him is Joey Harrington, and I think it may be a bit unrealistic to expect him to wind up here in Atlanta. I don't see Detroit getting rid of him just yet, and even if they did, I don't see Harrington settling for a #2 job with no upward mobility here in Atlanta.

I would love to trade Schaub for a #2, but I just don't see it happening. If the Jets get a vetearn QB via trade, it's probably going to be Billy Volek, who has worked with OC Mike Heimerdinger in Tennessee, and at this point I would say would be a smarter short-term bid for the Jets.

I think Jennings is more the style of CB the Falcons like. He's small, but the Falcons have shown little issue with small corners. Jennings may not be a starter, but he has similar ability as Webster. Most experts are saying that if he was 2 or 3 inches taller, he might be a 1st round pick.

I think Blue will slip because of his questionable coverage abilities. He'll be considered a tweener by many teams, which will probably drop him, kinda like Ernest Shazor last year. I don't see him dropping as much as Shazor did, but he'll dip somewhat.

Colledge could go higher, but because he's so small, NFL teams will sort of overlook him. Because usually the OTs in his mold (like a Nick Kaczur) usually don't go until Round 3 or 4.

I picked Syniewski because I saw that he was a good blocker, and I figure he could be a good replacement for Beverly.

McCree is not a great safety, but he's managed to start all 5 years he's been in the NFL on 3 different teams. He's coming off a career year in Carolina. He can play both FS and SS, plays well vs. the run, and can make plays vs. the pass. He's no Archuleta or Tank Williams, but as a 2nd/3rd tier safety in the NFL, he's pretty capable.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:40 am 
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Pudge wrote:
Ok, Comp, here's mine:

This is a bit of what I think could happen, and what I'd like to see happen....

First Round Mock

* indicates trade

1. HOU - Reggie Bush
2. NO - Vince Young
3. TEN - Matt Leinart
4. NYJ - D'Brickashaw Ferguson
5. GB - LenDale White
6. OAK - A.J. Hawk
7. SF - DeAngelo Williams
8. BUF - Mario Williams
9. DET - Tamba Hali
10. ARZ - Haloti Ngata
11. STL - Jonathan Orr
12. CLE - Mathias Kiwanuka
13. BAL - Jimmy Williams
14. PHI - Brodrick Bunkley
15. SD* - Eric Winston
16. MIA - DeMeco Ryans
17. KC* - Santonio Holmes
18. DAL - Bobby Carpenter
19. ATL* - Michael Huff
20. MIN* - Ernie Sims
21. NE - Ashton Youboty
22. DEN - Vernon Davis
23. TB - Winston Justice
24. CIN - Gabe Watson
25. NYG - Claude Wroten
26. CHI - Leonard Pope
27. PIT - Darnell Bing
28. JAC - Richard Marshall
29. SEA - Chad Jackson
30. IND - Joe Addai
31. DEN - Manny Lawson
32. CAR - Laurence Maroney

Falcons Draft

1/ SS Michael Huff, Texas
2/ DE Kamerion Wimbley, Florida State
3a/ CB Tim Jennings, Georgia
3b/ FS Greg Blue, Georgia
3c/ OT Daryn Colledge, Boise State
4/ OG Mark Setterstrom, Minnesota
5/ CB Justin Wyatt, USC
6/ RB Cedric Humes, Virginia Tech
7/ TE Quinn Sypniewski, Colorado


Kevin Shaffer signs elsewhere for a more lucrative contract.

Players cut:
DE Brady Smith
TE Eric Beverly

Contracts re-worked:
RB Warrick Dunn
T Todd Weiner
DE Patrick Kerney
LB Keith Brooking

Traded:
RB T.J. Duckett - to Pittsburgh for a 3rd round pick.

Re-signed:
T Barry Stokes - good depth.
S Keion Carpenter - insurance reasons and the fact he was our best safety in 2005.
S Omare Lowe - valuable on special teams.
K Todd Peterson - 90% accuracy, period.

Key Free Agent signings:
T Trey Teague - veteran that can be at the very least a utility backup, but will be slotted to replace Shaffer at LT for the short-term.
G Dan Neil - wily vet signed to push for starting job at LG.
QB Sage Rosenfels - slated to take over #2 job from Schaub in 2007, but the #3 for now.
RB Ron Dayne - signed to replace Duckett as #2 runner.
DE Ryan Denney - signed to replace Brady Smith as a 2-down role player.
S Marlon McCree - slotted to fill FS job for near future.
WR Andre Davis - expected to fill #4 job.

So here is the new depth chart:

QB Vick ... Schaub ... Rosenfels
RB Dunn ... Dayne ... Humes/Cobb
FB Griffith ... Dudley
WRs Jenkins/White ... Finneran/A.Davis
TE Crumper ... Blakley ... Sypniewski
LT Teague ... Colledge
LG Neil ... Setterstrom
C Lehr/McClure
RG Forney
RT Weiner ... Omiyale

LDE Kerney ... Davis
NT Lavalais ... Lake
UT Coleman ... Babs
RDE Wimbley/Denney
LB Demo/Boley
LB Hartwell ... Beck
LB Brooking ... Reese
CB Hall ... Cash/Mathis ... Wyatt
CB Webster ... Jennings
SS Huff ... Carpenter ... Scott
FS Jackson ... Blue ... Lowe

K Peterson
P Koenen
LS Rackley


Do you seriously not think that Huff won't be drafted earlier...I mean, with the kid's talent, I think he will be a higher pick

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:21 pm 
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No because he's a tweener. And I think what is giong to happen is that a lot of teams are going to begin to see him more as a Cover-2 type corner than a true guy that can play man all the time. And he's not a very physical safety. Fact is, unless you hit like a truck at S, it's hard for you to go in the 1st round.

I think we could liken him to a Corey Chavous, Tebucky Jones, and some of those tweeners of the past. Is Huff better? Probably.

If Jimmy Williams can jump back into the top 10, then maybe Huff's stock will move up. But I don't see him going before Williams. Two teams I could see taking Huff are St. Louis and Baltimore, because they both need help at CB and FS. But I think both would prefer Williams, and I also believe that there are other players that will be considered better overall palyers than Huff. I suspect a WR is going to leapfrog Huff at some point. I predict it to be Orr, but it could be Holmes or Chad Jackson.

There's still a ways to go before draft day, and a lot is going to depend on which players that are now getting late 1st round grades can move into the Top 15 (like a Demarcus Ware) and what teams do in free agency. At this point, I see only a few teams really looking hard at Huff:

11. St. Louis
13. Baltimore
16. Miami
18. Dallas
19. San Diego
20. Kansas City
21. New England

But I think none of those teams have safety as a huge need, just something that needs to be addressed. He makes the most sense in Dallas, but again they pick #18.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:14 am 
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I have a feeling someone in the top 12 picks will take Huff to play corner to be honest. He is possibly the best overall corner in this draft, and potentially the best to come out since Champ Bailey. He has also stated he prefers to play corner as well. I actually do see him going before Jimmy Williams because Williams either won't run for scouts or will not run the VaTech 4.38 he supposedly runs (we all know VaTech 40 times are garbage).

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