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 Post subject: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offseason
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:56 am 
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http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/0 ... ns-heading

Owens leaves Falcons with corner concerns heading into offseason
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Dan Parr

Posted Jan. 21, 2011 @ 4:23 p.m. ET
By Dan Parr

Some league observers are wondering if the Falcons need to make finding a new nickel back a priority following their loss to Green Bay in the divisional round of the playoffs. Chris Owens, who was filling in at the position for the injured Brian Williams, committed two costly penalties on a second-quarter touchdown drive that allowed Green Bay to tie the score, and he struggled in coverage throughout the game. It was an awful finish to a rough sophomore season for Owens. Williams is due to become an unrestricted free agent in March and the nine-year veteran isn't a long-term solution at the nickel spot. The Falcons are pleased with starting CBs Dunta Robinson and Brent Grimes, and they tend to exercise patience with their draft picks — there is no indication that they're ready to give up on Owens. Improving their depth at corner, however, might help the Falcons get over the hump in 2011.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:29 am 
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Is Dan Parr your pen name Pudge? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:07 am 
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Well duh!

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:26 pm 
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So 3 years in, have we all learned now that Dimitroff's draft picks won't always turn to gold?


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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:51 pm 
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Yeah this is pretty obvious, every game Owens plays he looks worse than the one before. Not exactly the kind of developement TD had in mind I'm sure. This is a 3-4 WR set league now, and we need 3 cornerbacks to defend this. I'm also a bit concerned with our Safety's. Both are big hitters and make some big plays, but.... both are a liability if they get stuck 1 on 1 with a wr, I guess what I'm trying to say is both of our safeties play a very similar style and I think if we had a safety that could cover a little better it would also help us when we get spread out. I was really shocked that when it was obvious that Owens would give up a play every single throw, we couldn't put a safety with him every play to double team his guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:31 pm 
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I've been a little surprised by the corners, because Dimitroff has said himself he feels he's best at scouting DBs. That's his area. Yet Chevis, Middleton, Owens haven't performed as mid picks and Robinson was underwhelming.

I like TD. Just strange since that's his areas. If we'd hit on a Tramon Williams and Sam Shields type in that time frame (two UFAs) you'd think that really is his area.

Hopefully Franks comes on strong, and we need a better coverage FS when we get other needs fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:36 pm 
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I hope the success of the Packers GM inspires TD to work harder. We obviously have a ways to go to be at an elite level.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:32 am 
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It's really sad that Owens didn't step up this year at the end of his Rookie year I felt that he would provide some much needed depth in our defensive backfield. Well it didn't turn out like that but I think that he will be a lot better with a couple of years of experience. I do agree with Takeitdown, for him to say that DBs are his specialty and then he has not drafted on corner that has done jack sh*t is very disappointing. I really didn't like the Jerry pick when it happened and thought that we should have went after Vontae Davis but I guess he had the character concerns that TD likes to stay away from. At this point where we have a locker room full of high character people, do you guys think its time that we take chances on some talented players with question marks in their past? I don't really see a rookie coming in and disrupting a locker room with some of the more respected young players in the League.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:43 am 
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Quote:
At this point where we have a locker room full of high character people, do you guys think its time that we take chances on some talented players with question marks in their past?


No. The Falcons are building the team the right way....or at least the right way in their opinion. Players will come in and find trouble, (Babs), but I don't think the team is going to go out of their way to sign a Pacman Jones type, even it wold help fill some glaring holes.

It doesn't mean management doesn't want to win and win now, they just want to do it the right way.


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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:02 am 
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AngryJohnny51 wrote:
Quote:
At this point where we have a locker room full of high character people, do you guys think its time that we take chances on some talented players with question marks in their past?


No. The Falcons are building the team the right way....or at least the right way in their opinion. Players will come in and find trouble, (Babs), but I don't think the team is going to go out of their way to sign a Pacman Jones type, even it wold help fill some glaring holes.

It doesn't mean management doesn't want to win and win now, they just want to do it the right way.

I don't see them going way out there for a Pacman Jones or even an Albert Haynesworth but there are always cases of guys like Cory Dillon who was always seen as a trouble man (you should be hearing Marviun Gaye in your mind right now) or, arguably, Randy Moss going to a solid org like NE and being able to keep their act together enough to meld with the overall team. Perhaps I've mellowed with age but while I used to be on the side of giving me characters who can play over the give me players with character argument I have begun to slide the other way. Of course, you can take that with a grain of salt--arguably--coming from an Auburn alum. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:13 pm 
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I think it's a bit premature to start declaring or insinuating that Owens is a bust. As was the case of Chevis Jackson, he is not devoid of talent. People forget how good he was late in his rookie season, on par with some other player by the name of Grimes.

Now the Falcons shouldn't move forward expecting Owens to become a really good corner. But people on this board have a tendency that if a player is not approaching a Pro Bowl level by the end of his second year, ready to declare him a bust.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:53 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
I think it's a bit premature to start declaring or insinuating that Owens is a bust. As was the case of Chevis Jackson, he is not devoid of talent. People forget how good he was late in his rookie season, on par with some other player by the name of Grimes.

Now the Falcons shouldn't move forward expecting Owens to become a really good corner. But people on this board have a tendency that if a player is not approaching a Pro Bowl level by the end of his second year, ready to declare him a bust.

True...but if he follows the template of Jackson he might get the axe at the end of this upcoming training camp. Last I heard NE had signed Chevis but I don't know if he stuck there. As far as your argument goes, nobody in the NFL is devoid of talent. Lots of it has to do with their specific strong points and the team or scheme they wind up with. Generally speaking, i think if you can play you can play for any team but there are always cases of young players that start off with someone and don't make it only to do well elsewhere...John Randal, Brett Favre, David Akers are three that come to mind quickly regarding the Falcons whereas Johnny Unitas did OK after the Steelers cut him. Every time I think of Unitas I think of the eulogy that a guy wrote about him wherein he was talking about what asquare, old school guy he was. When he wound up in SD at the end of his career int he early 70s or thereabout he was out a team party an dthree guys were passing a joint and in all seriousness he said, "What...are you guys so cheap you can't buy your own cigarette?" :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:09 pm 
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How many good slot corners are out there in the league? It's a hard position to play. And while I know it's contrary to popular opinion, but Chevis Jackson wasn't really that bad in that role last year.

Regardless of a GM/scout's "speciality" good corners are hard to find after the 2nd round. One could consider themselves a "QB guru" but we all know that the talent dropoff between guys that are drafted in the 1st round to those that are drafted in the 3rd/4th round is significant.

You might be able to see something and get something out of Charlie Whitehurst, Trent Edwards, and/or Matt Schaub (all 3rd round picks), but at the end of the day, another team is likely to be more successful going with Ben Roethlisberger, Jay Cutler, or Joe Flacco.

My point with Owens was that he showed some potential as a rookie, and if he had not, I would be much more pessimistic. If Owens has "it" then he'll bounce back this year, work hard in the off-season that won't exist, and come back next summer willing to compete. You know, a lot like Roddy did.

One should remember that Domonique Foxworth had a strong rookie year, then kind of fell back to earth his next two seasons before Denver shipped him to us.

I'm not going to hold my breath for Owens, but I'll leave the door slightly ajar.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:55 pm 
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I was surprised to see Chevis jettisoned, actually. He certainly looked better than Owens did this year. Chris really looked bad a few times but, as you say, leave the door ajar. Once you have invested a couple years in a guy in terms of training as well as the pick it behooves you to make sure he isn't going to work out. OTOH, if he isn't you may as well let him go (Middleton). It really is a tough position with all the rules making it easier every day to pass.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:12 pm 
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This is exactly why its imperative to bring in another corner.Hard to tell if Owens works out and since this is a decent free agent corner class get the veteran this time. Owens is good special teams player.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:37 pm 
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I think Owens is just fine.... Playing corner is different than playing nickle but in
the NFL if you sit on defense most of the year and your put in for one game bad things
are likely to happen.

Thomas D. understands for you to get a good skill player you need about 5 prospects.
If it was up to the majority of this board Grimes would have been cut 2 years ago.... D. Robinson
never made excuses while learning our system this year.

Of Course not all of Thomas D's picks will work out but I give him credit for keeping Grimes and
getting us Robinson. If the injury cost Jerry his career I won't blame Thomas D.

A guy like Roberto Garza (just an example) was drafted for us in 2001... We let him go in 3 years, but
with more experience and more work in the weight room; he was still starting with Bears in his 10th year....
That's a starter for 7 years we missed out on because we acted hastily.

If they don't get hurt I bet our new safeties could start for most teams another 6-8 years....Same with Lofton and
Weatherspoon most likely....

When Thomas D. came in we were so weak at corner and now its stable. I don't understand what you guys are talking about, and I don't care how it became stable. Now when we get a pass rush everyone else will look better....Much better!!

When we let someone go I hope their out of the league or ridding the bench of the opposition....Even average starters
will often take some time to develop.

When we drafted Jamal Anderson (the running back) in the 7th round in 1994 he didn't get much playing time as a
rookie, He couldn't not beat out Iron Head Haywood his second year but he kept improving....It took him 4 years to break out and he helped us get to the Super Bowl in his 5th year!!

If you look for failure you'll be able to find it; if you look for success you'll be able to find that too.... Folks have wanted Todd McClure gone for 8 years yet he was our center with our rushing success of 2004 and has
continued that success of our rushing game from 2008-2010.

The biggest thing I've learned about the NFL over the years is you can't really be sure which guys will get better and
which guys will lose their passion.....All I know is Thomas D. since he got here has stabilized our defense against the run, and stabilized our corners & safeties.... Its my guess he'll now do the same with our pass rush!!

The defensive backs & the defensive line are a combination.....Neither will look that special without the other. You guys are making harsh judgments IMO. 3 WINNING SEASON IN 3 YEARS AND 2 PLAYOFF GAMES IN 3 YEARS AND LOOKING FORWARD!! How did that happen after being 4-12 and having no players in 2007?

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:47 pm 
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What was the young guy's name with Reeves? Ehparem Salaam or something like that? He played forever after we cut him. I think he may still be on the Texans. I don't know that Garza is all that though. The Bears OL has been pretty poor in pass protection but, then again, they were in the NFCCG. It may take 5 prospects to find a player and I think that is what we are talking about. You have to know or recognize when a prospect isn't going to make it. But in the league now days you better get your young guys out on the field quickly. They cannot just develop for years.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:53 pm 
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If you listen to that interview with Thomas D. I think that organization are not so afraid
of "bad characters" and their actions off the field, although when it happens during the season, or
you have a receiver going public with a complaint of a Qb or you have a corner back going public about
a coach, or a lack of a pass rush, then you'll lose the locker room......You have people resenting others in the locker room it will carry over to practice and then to games..... I don't think Babs is a Saint or probably many others; and
I don't think we go for quality characters more than most.... I think it just makes for more of a team vs. what we had
with a young Vick and D.Hall.......

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:14 pm 
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I was just using Garza as an example and Ehparem Salaam did stay in the league forever as he was a starter for us
as a rookie....I don't know how good Garza was but wish I had him to see how he stacks up against Justin Blalock or
Harvey Dahl.....(I don't think Salaam ever was a GOOD steady player) but I was watching Garza in the Championship game.

Even with the current staff I'd love to know how Laurent Robinson does against Harry Douglas. Robinson his rookie
year had 37 receptions and a 11.8 average per catch..... Then he got hurt..... Now he's back to that 35 receptions
while Douglas can't break 25... I'm not wanting to sound like the current staff won't make mistakes; I'm just saying
we better make less mistakes than the other guys and I believe we do now!!

I'm just saying when someone plays well lets not be so ready to write them off, if they've never done much ( Chris Houston) let then go ASAP.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:05 pm 
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We didn't give up on Garza. He played 4 years with us, starting 35 games in that span. We saw plenty of him to make a fair judgment. He was let go because he had a bum knee, and with our Gibbs-style scheme, the team thought Matt Lehr was a better fit and they were probably right, if judging from the sack dropoff from '04 to '05 with the Lehr/Garza exchange being the lone change from one year to the next.

Pretty much the same exact thing happened to Salaam. He became a FA, and we signed Todd Weiner as an upgrade, and Salaam went on to have a nice career as a journeyman in Denver (under Gibbs/Dennison), Jacksonville (under Boudreau), and Houston (under Gibbs).

I guess my point is that people shouldn't be so quick to condemn Owens, after 2 years. There's a reason people tend to agree that drafts shouldn't be judged until 3 years later at the earliest, because the vast majority of players don't really start to emerge until their 3rd years in the league.

We often like to judge guys based off how much improvement they make from Year 1 to Year 2. But IMO, Year 2 to Year 3 is what usually separates the men from the boys. Great examples of current Falcons that made big strides from Year 2 to Year 3 are Matt Ryan, Roddy WHite, Tyson Clabo, Brent Grimes, etc. Patrick Kerney would be a prominent past example. And there are even guys like Jonathan Babineaux, Harvey Dahl, and yes even Jamaal Anderson don't really start to grow until Years 4 or later. Chuck Smith woudl be a good past example.

Typically the only guys (e.g. Tony Gonzalez, John Abraham) that are blossoming in Year 2 are the ones that will be perennial Pro Bowlers and potential HOFers.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:29 pm 
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As far as safeties, I'm not too high on Decoud at this point. He does way too much show-boating for his lack of production. I think William Moore is pretty good though. He has good awareness and hands when the ball comes his way.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:42 pm 
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I don't think we give up on Owens, though he was horrible this year...he did show something his first year. But his footwork has made it such that double moves/quick receivers leave him fubared.

I was more pointing to the lack of luck we've had with mid rounders at CB. Some of it is just luck, as you likely have to take 3+ 3rd to 5th round CBs to get one who is starter material. TD looks for the right stuff, knowing ball skills and those things are important, and we still have Owens looking to tackle the guy instead of turn and catch the ball. Tough job, scouting. Tough job.


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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:12 pm 
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LOL, I say we give up on Owens.... I understand your arguments, but I'm not buying in.... He gives up a completion or a penalty every play they throw at him. We'd be better off lining up with 10 guys, maybe it will distract the QB?

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:52 pm 
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For me the main thing is TD needs to keep the talent coming. Owens might mature later but I certainly would bring in another corner or 2 just to make sure in case he falters. If we want to make that next leap we are going to have to have some of these players step yup and play much bigger. I understand its a process and it takes time but the quesiton is if the player doesn't work out and you have no plan b then your in trouble. Some folks we should handle that when the time comes but how many more years then do you have to wait if you don't have a plan B to step in? We have Grimes and Robinson who are better than the previous years but we need for some of the defenders to play like all stars if we want to get by the first,2nd round and eventually the super Bowl.TALENT,TALENT,TALENT we need more of it.

Owens is a good special teams player but he needs to work harder on improving. I don't know what his work ethic is but I wonder how much studying some of these players do to get better? Generally, you get better with more experience and we sure didn't see that vs Green Bay. Now to Owens defense Rodgers is one of the best in the league making throws and the receivers aren't slouches but Owens really hurt the defense in that game.

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 Post subject: Re: Owens leaves Falcons with CB concerns heading into offse
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:21 am 
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I still believe a decent pass rush will make all of these guys look much better..... We talk a lot of the guys who I think
are learning their jobs when Biermann, Babs, C. Davis and Sid didn't even dress the last 7, and these must be the guys who's time is running out to start.... Obviously Abe can only go a little longer with his speed being his strength.


Pudge, no one wants to see us argue Garza but I knew him pretty good and he told me Gibbs always wanted him
to beat out McClure and how McClure was so much better than the guards..... The knee must have been not as bad as we thought......and Garza has always been better for the run than pass. Since you rarely get to know a player I thought Garza was a big mistake----don't know maybe it was more personal, but he's a starting 10 year vet now on
another playoff team.

Lehr was caught with steroids, and just didn't last.

Garza-from Bears Web Site
Has been a key component to offensive line since coming to Chicago in 2005, starting 71-of-80 games played, including 64 straight, while the Bears have rushed for 8,512 yards..

I could get great info from Garza & even his wife.

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