Does anyone else here NOT want Abraham?

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The_Incomparable
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Does anyone else here NOT want Abraham?

Postby The_Incomparable » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:50 am

Or is this just me?
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Postby AtlGraff07 » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:13 am

I think it might be just you lol because you are one of the first people I have heard say that. I would honestly love to have him as long as we don't give in and get screwed on the deal.

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Postby Truman » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:48 am

What is the alternative? Going with Babineaux outside and hoping for a DE in round 1?
I like Schaub, but according to rumour the front office is being offered a pro bowler here in exchange for a backup and a pick. It seems like a no-brainer.

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Postby GSUTeke » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:49 am

Truman wrote:What is the alternative? Going with Babineaux outside and hoping for a DE in round 1?
I like Schaub, but according to rumour the front office is being offered a pro bowler here in exchange for a backup and a pick. It seems like a no-brainer.


a no brainer indeed

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Postby dirtybirdnw » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:42 am

I think your the only one at least on this board Incomp. You might have a few allies over on AF.com.
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Postby FalconsAreTheBest » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:08 pm

Im all for signing him as long as we dont have to part with our 1st round pick.
Yep

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Jets have to save face

Postby GSUTeke » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:14 pm

i'm all for sending them our first next year. it should be towards the bottom of the round.

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Postby Steve-O » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:44 pm

I think with a long term contract and a team that actually is willing to treat him well he woudn't be a head case...

He's a 10 sack guy and those are hard to find....

and from the looks of it I think we are gonna get him without giving up Shaub or our first round pick...

so yeah, I am all for it....

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Postby dirtybirdnw » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:46 pm

I personally do not get why the Falcons don't offer to do the following deal:

John Abraham & New York's 2nd for Atlanta's 1st & 2nd

In that deal the Jets gain a 2nd round pick and they upgrade their exisiting second round to the middle of the 1st round. This way Atlanta get's Abraham and has two good picks in the 2nd.

Seem's like a win/win too me.
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Postby GSUTeke » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:58 pm

no way man! the Falcons will sit on that pick to get a cornerback. Jimmy will likely be there.

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Postby Pudge » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:11 pm

Earlier this off-season, I wasn't bending over backwards for the team to get Abraham, because I saw it as a very remote possibility with the CBA situation as it was and the likelihood the Falcons would have to part ways with a #1 pick to get him. Not to mention his durability and supposed "character" issues, frankly had me believing it would be best to "settle" for someone like Tamba Hali or Daryl Tapp.

But over the past month, my opinion has changed because of our expanded cap space and the possibility of acquiring him for less than a #1.

I'm in the same camp as vickisthebest, if we can get him without giving away our #1 pick, I'm all for it.

At this point, if this deal falls through because the Falcons were hesitant to deal Matt Schaub, I'm going to be very upset with the front office. I don't care if Vick misses all 16 games this year and Schaub leads this team to the playoffs, the only way IMO the front office can justify keeping Schaub and losing out on Abraham is ONLY if Matt Schaub is our starting QB come 2007.
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Postby The_Incomparable » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:13 am

So how is Abraham going to finally hold the point of attack after failing to do so in New York for 5+ years? That's my biggest problem with this whole thing. We had a very solid D with a big, run stuffing RDE in 2004. Now we're bringing in a greyhound to do the work of a saint bernard....???
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Postby mickvick302 » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:43 am

The_Incomparable wrote:So how is Abraham going to finally hold the point of attack after failing to do so in New York for 5+ years? That's my biggest problem with this whole thing. We had a very solid D with a big, run stuffing RDE in 2004. Now we're bringing in a greyhound to do the work of a saint bernard....???



You also have to remember that the Jet's D was on the field more than half the game because of a horrid Jets offense.
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Postby GSUTeke » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:21 am

he's right though we need some help stopping the run. let Kerney and Coleman do their thing.

this would be the one year there are no playmakers available in the secondary.

keep the pick and draft Jimmy Williams is what I say.

spend that Abraham money on TWO offensive linemen.

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Seattle

Postby MarylandFalcon1 » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:18 am

I am not one to pick up players so other teams don't get them but this Seattle thing is making me nervous. Sure Seattle lost Hutchinson to the Vikings which weakens their O-Line but they signed Julian Peterson to a D that got them to the Super Bowl and if they put Abraham in you might as well pencil them in for the League Championship Game/Super Bowl for the next 3 years. If we got Abraham (using speed like our defense is built around) we could even the playing field with Seattle, and remember we have lost to them the last 2 years with Schaub/Vick so why not dump Schaub?

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Postby PB21 » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:55 am

The latest rumor is that T.J. is a player involved with this mess. Guess I'm a little nuetral over Abraham. He's a quick fix,...something Mora said he sacrificed by letting Jasper and Hall go after 2004. By playing the younger guys, Mora said we'll see dividends down the road. Abraham isn't that guy IMO. If he has two, maybe three good years left, we'd be lucky.

Then you have to look at some Falcons players like Dunn and Brooking. These guys won't be around much longer themselves and we know they want to win a ring now and not in two or three years.

I'd hate to see us throw another first round pick away for another Peerless Price.

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Postby Pudge » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:27 pm

PB21 wrote:If he has two, maybe three good years left, we'd be lucky.


Jason Taylor is 32 this year and Michael Strahan is 34. Abraham is only 28. So, I'd expect 4-5 years of Abraham playing at a high level. Elite pass rushers manage to play well into their thirties. Both Reggie White, Chris Doleman and Bruce Smith managed to have double-digit sack years as late as age 37. I'm not saying Abraham is in their caliber nor will he be as productive that long, but Abraham is not yet in the twilight of his career.

It's true, stopping the run has been an issue in New York over the years since Abraham began there. 3 out of his 5 years there, they finished in the Bottom 5 of yards allowed in the NFL, and only once ranked in the Top 15 in run defense (2004 where they were 5th in the league). But then again, I think when you look at the Jets personnel, it is somewhat understandable. For much of hte early years of Herm Edwards' tenure in New York, they still had 3-4 personnel left over from the Parcells/Groh days being square pegs in the 4-3 defense. It wasn't until 2004 with Vilma, along with having the horses up front, that the Jets finally got a defense that resembled a well-oiled 4-3 machine.

Abraham is not a run stuffer. But like Kerney, he definitely can make plays in pursuit vs. the run chasing from the backside. I think his impact is going to be huge, because it will allow the Falcons defense to be much more aggressive. And when the entire defense is aggressive IMO over the past 2 years, they play their best.
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Postby widetrak21 » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:02 pm

I like Dirty's trade idea, b/c I think we need to get him. Hartwell is just like a FA, and after his big talk last year, I expect him to be the run stuffer. We need Abraham to get to the QB, plain and simple. On one hand I don't want to give up our vick insurance, but on the other hand, our D was pitiful last year. I'd rather have the D upgraded, as opposed to having Schuab waste away on the bench. If Schaub isn't traded by this time next year, then we won't even be able to do anything about it.

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Postby dirtybirdnw » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:24 pm

Schuab is a RFA this time next year so the Falcons can gamble on a high tender and try and get a first round pick out of him. But they'll probably settle on something cheaper. I doubt we get much out of him if we don't deal him for Abraham.
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Re: Does anyone else here NOT want Abraham?

Postby AngryJohnny51 » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:43 pm

The_Incomparable wrote:Or is this just me?


I'm with you 'Comp. (Did I just say that? :lol: )

If we could get Honest Abe for a second rounder and not give up Schaub or our first pick, then McKay again proves his worth. I'm not a big fan of giving away the future for a one year run at the Championship.

I want to see the Falcons build and tweek it the right way and be a contender year in and year out, rather than buying a team for the now and then "capping" everyone and starting over again. A Super Bowl is the ultimate prize for sure, but as a long, long time suffering Falcons fan, I'd rather have us be contenders every year....

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Postby Pudge » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:51 pm

AngryJohnny51 wrote:I'm not a big fan of giving away the future for a one year run at the Championship.

My rebuttal would be that it's not a one-year run. Hartwell, Abraham, Kerney, Coleman, Brooking, Demorrio, DeAngelo, Milloy, all should be a core of defenders that should be playing with this team at the very least through the 2008 season. Beyond that we may lose a few guys, but that's a solid core of 6 Pro Bowlers, and 2 more guys that have Pro Bowl potential, for the next 2-3 years at least.
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