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 Post subject: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:29 pm 
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http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/0 ... out-grimes

This is, of course, just speculation... But why just let him go? If we don't intend on keeping him, why not franchise him, then make a deal with someone who needs a corner? I love Brent Grimes, and I'd hate to see him go. I'd hate it even more if we don't get something out of losing him.


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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:31 pm 
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If this were to happen, I'd be done with this team. No, I wouldn't shut down the site or stop following the team. But I would just stop caring, and probably actively root against this regime at times.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:41 pm 
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wow, I sure hope this is wrong........ :snooty:

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:48 pm 
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Players are transient. In this day and age, unless it is a core player, or a hall of famer, I can understand letting folks go, provided we get something out of it. It seems kind of obvious to me that receivers and corners are not core players in the modern NFL. Matter of fact, I think that we see more turnover in high profile corners and receivers than at any other position, though that's just a lay observation, I have not done the research on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:51 pm 
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I'm not happy that Grimes didn't play last Sunday but it wouldn't make much of a difference. If they don't re sign him, Ill be outraged and be off the Tommy D bandwagon.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:14 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
If this were to happen, I'd be done with this team. No, I wouldn't shut down the site or stop following the team. But I would just stop caring, and probably actively root against this regime at times.


Can you get more into this?

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:15 pm 
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However, the Falcons were encouraged by the performance of CBs Dominique Franks and Chris Owens down the stretch, and the team will be looking to have the cap flexibility to re-sign some of its other core players. We hear that Grimes, the team's top corner, is likely to price himself out of the team's range.

:doh: :naughty: :down: . NO!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:47 pm 
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I can't see how the Falcons could make the conscious decision to not try and lock up Grimes long-term. The guy has played his tail off the past two years, and definitely earned a contract. And for this to team to come back and say you're "too expensive" really is just the craziest thing I've ever heard. That means that team is willing to overpay for Dunta Robinson, who can't hold the jock of the guy that is actually holding Grimes jock, and go with guys like Chris Owens and Dominique Franks, who did indeed hold their own. But instead of looking at that, seeing they did a decent job and getting rid of the guy who is the real problem (Robinson), they are going to let their best defensive player walk?

And you're going to keep Dunta Robinson? A guy who is nothing more than a sanctioned thug? A guy that almost started a brawl in the Bucs game for taking a cheap shot on a defenseless receiver? A guy that got into a shouting match with his head coach? A guy that has maybe had 6 good games in the past 32 games?

And you're going to keep him over a guy that has probably only had 4 bad games in the past 32? A guy that is the personification of toughness and hard work? That his only character concern is that his girlfriend got into a twitter war with the world's worst beat writer?

Everybody knows that the Falcons paid too much for Dunta Robinson. But it's a mistake that hasn't really blown up in their face because of the steady play of Brent Grimes on the other side. But they are going to compound that mistake by making a much bigger mistake by letting Grimes walk?

Even if you were to tag him and net a 1st round pick in exchange for him, it's still a huge mistake. And the bottom line here seems to be that the Falcons would let him go because they can't afford him. And the reason they can't afford him is because they overpaid for a much worse player in Robinson. And instead of fixing that mistake, you compound with the hugest mistake ever by getting rid of Grimes?

All I'll say is that whatever the consequences of such a move, Thomas Dimitroff and Mike Smith will deserve every bit of it. If a Grimes-less Falcons defense is atrocious next year, and this team limps it's way to a 6-10 season, then so be it.

I'm a Falcon fan, but it doesn't mean I have to root for TD and Smitty. f*** them.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:14 pm 
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Bravo Pudge Bravo, I couldn't have said it better :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:37 pm 
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This is why Pudge is the man :clap: . That was impressive and you made things so true. Dunta is dirt compared to the gold Grimes. You all know I used to be the biggest Grimes hater, but he has been magnificent ever since last year. You said everything that needed to be said Pudge, so I'm not going to go on and on.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:17 am 
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Pudge wrote:
Even if you were to tag him and net a 1st round pick in exchange for him, it's still a huge mistake. And the bottom line here seems to be that the Falcons would let him go because they can't afford him..


" The team was expecting him to suit up vs. the Giants, but he was added to the list of inactives the morning of the game and we hear some inside the organization were very surprised, and disappointed, that he didn't play".

If Grimes sat out when he could have played vs the Giants because he was unhappy with his contract and did not want to risk injury, in that context if we tagged him and got a 1st round pick I think that is a wise move.

Now you know I love me some Grimes, but really? A 30 yr old munchkin CB coming off knee surgery and with bad blood between him and his agent/wife, the front office? If he sat out when we really needed him on purpose, sorry, I'd rather have that first round pick no matter how much Dunta sucks.

I do think you have a right to be pissed at the management for letting it get to this point. There might be something we dont know about his injury, and maybe that had something to do with TD not getting his extension done....But if he sat himself then buh bye lil man. I 'll miss ya, but dont let the door hit ya where Good Lord split ya. :|

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:01 pm 
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He is turning 29 in July just to clarify. PAY THE MAN!

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:37 pm 
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I love Grimes and appreciate what he has added to our defense the last couple of years. I was shocked to see that the Falcons would even consider letting him go! That said, if Grimes was posturing himself for a big contract by deliberately taking himself out of the most important game of the year (as has been suggested), I'm not at all sure that is the kind of attitude we need in the locker room going forward. Clearly we do not know all the facts, so I am reserving judgement for now.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:51 pm 
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That's all BS. It's their meager attempts to justify their reasoning. The dude was legitimately injured, otherwise he wouldn't have missed practice the entire week. Look, is it a possibility that Grimes was 80% or whatever for that Giants game, and rather than risk re-injury and hurting his free agency potential, he decided to shut it down?

Yeah, that's a definite possibility, if not a likelihood. But guess what? I don't care. Management wouldn't have had that problem if they had taken care of his contract well before hand.

So we're supposed to be upset for Brent Grimes because he didn't sacrifice his knee for a team he might not even be on in 6 weeks? The last time he tried to play on that injured knee, he re-injured it like 2 minutes into the game.

OK, if you're going to be one of those people that would rather not have that type of player on your team, and instead would rather have a player like Dunta Robinson, then that's your prerogative, but don't fault me if I consider it "jackass-ery."

That is basically the same thing that go John Abraham booted out of New York. And guess what happened there? The last time the Jets had a double digit sack guy was in 2005 with Abraham. And they've been searching desperately for the past 6 years for that type of player. First they thought it would be Bryan Thomas. No. Then they signed Calvin Pace. No. Then they drafted Vernon Gholston. No. Signed Jason Taylor. No. Then picked up Aaron Maybin. Nope.

WWJD? Jesus would have played in that game. So clearly, Brent Grimes comes close but still a bit shy of our Lord and Savior.

So you have to weigh the "evils." Do you commit one "evil" by rewarding Grimes lack of sacrifice with a long-term contract, knowing that it makes your team significantly better. Or do you commit another "evil" by rewarding Dunta's behavior and make your team considerably worse.

Even if a new DC is able to get the player out of Robinson that he was in Houston, he's still not going to hold a candle to Grimes.

It really just boils down to people trying to justify something that they know in their heart is wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:08 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
That's all BS. It's their meager attempts to justify their reasoning. The dude was legitimately injured, otherwise he wouldn't have missed practice the entire week. Look, is it a possibility that Grimes was 80% or whatever for that Giants game, and rather than risk re-injury and hurting his free agency potential, he decided to shut it down?

Yeah, that's a definite possibility, if not a likelihood. But guess what? I don't care. Management wouldn't have had that problem if they had taken care of his contract well before hand.

So we're supposed to be upset for Brent Grimes because he didn't sacrifice his knee for a team he might not even be on in 6 weeks? It really just boils down to people trying to justify something that they know in their heart is wrong.



well, he did practice 2 days during the week according to the article. Why did he wait until the am of the game to decide he couldn't do it? Nobody knows who is telling the truth, but I would think the team dr.s would also have an idea as to how ready to go he was. If he was 80% and decided to 'make the front office pay' for not taking care of business, then he is telling the rest of the team to go f*ck themselves.

Big game players play through the pain in important games.You know me and injuries, but in January everyone has to be on the same page.

If it's true he sat himself and was 80%, waited for 3 hours before kickoff to let the team know, then bye bye.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:31 pm 
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Well, he only had limited participation on Friday practice. He missed both Wednesday and Thursday practices.

Personally, I don't buy it. I don't buy the notion that the team doctors cleared him to play, but he opted instead to shut it down. That doesn't sound like the Brent Grimes I've come to know from his play on the field. I'll buy that if he was 110% intent on playing, then the doctors would have cleared him. But because his head and heart weren't willing to go that extra mile, he sat.

But even still, I ask again, would you rather have Brent Grimes even with his unwillingness to sacrifice for the good of the team, or would you rather have Dunta Robinson and his reckless, undisciplined play on the field where he is nothing more than a licensed thug who gets into shouting matches with his head coach? You're telling me that Brent Grimes is more carcinogenic to the health of this locker room than Robinson?

Three years ago, Robinson sat out of all of training camp trying to get a contract. What makes that OK and what Grimes did so wrong? So you're saying Grimes would have been completely justified for telling his teammates to go screw themselves in August, but not in January?

To me this the crux of the issue: Grimes vs. Robinson. Would you rather have a slightly bad egg (which is still debatable if he is slightly bad) in Brent Grimes who balls on Sunday, or a definitely rotten egg who doesn't ball on Sundays in Robinson?

Because it's about money right? Do you pay Grimes his market value or do you opt instead to keep Robinson? The Falcons paid Robinson a deal that average $9.5M/yr. and had $22.5M guaranteed 2 years ago. Since, then if you look at the Top 7 contracts given to corners in the past 18 months:

1. Darrelle Revis, Jets ($11.5M/yr., $32M guaranteed)
2. Nnamdi Asomugha, Eagles ($12M/yr., $25M guaranteed)
3. Johnathan Joseph, Texans ($9.75M/yr., $23.5M guaranteed)
4. Brandon Flowers, Chiefs ($10M/yr., $22M guaranteed)
5. Stanford Routt, Raiders ($10.5M/yr., $20M guaranteed)
6. Champ Bailey, Broncos ($10.75M/yr., $15M guaranteed)
7. Leon Hall, Bengals ($9.5M/yr., $14M guaranteed)

Robinson has $38.5M left remaining in cap money due to him over the next 4 years. And so basically you'd rather pay that to him rather than pay whatever you think Grimes could make ($10-11M/yr. with $22-25M guaranteed) over the next 5-6 years?

This isn't just about character/sacrifice/toughness, it's about money.

https://twitter.com/#!/DParrPFW/status/ ... 8236218368

Robinson's $6M base salary for this year becomes guaranteed if he's still on the roster on the 2nd day of the league year. His cap hit this year is about $7.75M if that base salary comes to bear. The franchise tag for corners this year is projected to be around $10.5M. So that would be what you'd have to pay Grimes until you were able to give him a long-term deal.

So what I'm reading between the lines here is that the Falcons plan on going forward with Robinson's money, which is why they don't think they can afford to pay Grimes what he is worth anymore.

And that's what it boils down to, this team in doing their evaluation think it's smarter to pay Robinson his $$$ and let Grimes walk, rather than any other course of action that involves Grimes staying, then they are foolish, and no offense to you fun gus and Go Falcons, then you too are fools. Sorry. :snooty:

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Let me start off by saying that I am a big Grimes fan, and I do want him to finish his career with the Birds. With all that said now I dont think no one besides Julio and Weatherspoon are untouchable on our roster, I mean if we can work a sign and trade and get a playmaker of equal value I would pull the trigger. I will say that if I had my choice I would cut Robinson or ask him to restructure his deal to help sign Grimetime. When it all comes down to it should Grimes finish his career with the Falcons but if it doesn't happen the front office better do something to make up for it, am I the only one who thinks that 2012 doesn't look so bright for the home team?

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:43 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Three years ago, Robinson sat out of all of training camp trying to get a contract. What makes that OK and what Grimes did so wrong? So you're saying Grimes would have been completely justified for telling his teammates to go screw themselves in August, but not in January?

To me this the crux of the issue: Grimes vs. Robinson. :



yes. sit out of training camp over a contract dispute, I dont like it but I can accept it.

sit out of a playoff game when you could be 80%? Over $$$? Tell your teammates to shove it? If ( and it's a BIG if ) Grimes sat because of $$ in January, he is a fool. He may have just cost himself his only chance at a playoff game. He would be a bigger fool then anybody on this forum :snooty:

Lets give everyone the money they think they deserve, and then we can be just like the Dream Team. Lookit how well THAT turned out.

There may be an I in Grimes, but there aint one in 'team'. This is a result of not having adequate coaching and a leaderless defense as well as a front office f*ckup.

Now I dont like Dunta's $$ but at least he played. If Grimes took himself out, see ya buddy. I wont even wish you good luck. Hit the road jack. :so:

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:06 pm 
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Reezy the Savior wrote:
I mean if we can work a sign and trade and get a playmaker of equal value I would pull the trigger.

Good luck finding a playmaker of equal value. Grimes is a Top 10 NFL player at the most or 2nd most important/valuable position on a defense. Grimes is probably one of the 50 best defensive players in the entire league.

fun gus wrote:
Lets give everyone the money they think they deserve, and then we can be just like the Dream Team. Lookit how well THAT turned out.
No, it's not what he thinks, it's what he actually deserves.

Grimes was rated as the 2nd best corner in the league this year by Pro Football Focus, with the 3rd highest coverage grade. Robinson was 101st overall, and 105th in coverage out of 1087 corners that played at least 300 snaps this year. Franks was 56th overall and 53rd in coverage, while Owens was 81st and 97th respectively.

Last year, Grimes was 11th overall and 9th in coverage. Robinson was 31st overall and 22nd in coverage. So it's not a one-year aberration from playing in his contract year. He's clearly been a Top 10 corner for each of the past two years.

So the Falcons are going to reward Robinson for his huge drop in production both as a run defender and in coverage by guaranteeing his $7.8M cap figure this year, and not pay Grimes $10 or 11M he deserves, because they were disappointed he did not play in the final game. Maybe instead they should be more disappointed that they paid all that money to Dunta Robinson who decided to basically half-assed it for the last 16 games.

You're going to let one minor incident cloud 4 years of greatness. And I don't mean greatness in the sense that Brent Grimes has been a great player throughout that entire 4 years, but he has been the personification of exactly what you want in a teammate, prospect, playmaker, and player for that time, going from nothing to something then back to nothing, but then to something more. And you're going to ignore the laundry list of incidents and infractions that Dunta Robinson has committed over the past year and reward that behavior by guaranteeing him nearly $8 million.

Rewarding Brent Grimes alleged actions is more detrimental to the health and sanctity of this team's locker room than rewarding Robinson's actual actions? :hand:

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:32 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Reezy the Savior wrote:
I mean if we can work a sign and trade and get a playmaker of equal value I would pull the trigger.

Good luck finding a playmaker of equal value. Grimes is a Top 10 NFL player at the most or 2nd most important/valuable position on a defense. Grimes is probably one of the 50 best defensive players in the entire league.


Depending on which way we go with the DC and his system a there is a possibility that the acquired player would be better in the new system than Grimes would be. If we went to a defensive scheme where the corners had to play more up tight physical coverage Grimes would be in a world of trouble. I highly doubt it though, for one it seems that player for player deals hardly happen now and days and secondly I just don't see someone coming in here day one and having the type of output that Grimes has had here regardless of position.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:35 pm 
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[quote="Pudge"]Since you brought Jeebus into this thread, look at touchdown Jesus himself. He would never pull this sh*t. The guy has heart, he's tough he clearly isn't a 'great' QB but look where he is. :pray:
:



:oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:24 pm 
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Again, fun gus you're missing the entire point of this. It's not about character or heart, it's about money.

And because the Falcons don't want to and/or can't afford to pay Grimes, they are manufacturing this issue of heart in order to justify/mask that.

And the reason why you can't exclude Dunta Robinson from this situation/equation, is because if the reason is they actually cannot afford to re-sign Grimes, it's because they've made other poor decisions with their money.

It's the person that instead of paying his rent, went out to the strip club and spent all of his rent money on lap dances. And then tells his friends to run him over with a car to try and give him an excuse for why he has yet to play a landlord because he is laid up in a hospital.

Again, you're buying this load of drivel. No, holding out when you're completely healthy and under contract in August isn't any better than holding out when you're not healthy and not about to be under contract within a few hours in January.

Robinson is at the very core of this issue because this team is basically saying, "We can only afford to pay one of these guys," and they are CHOOSING to pay Robinson instead of CHOOSING to pay Grimes. And this issue of Grimes not being willing to play hurt is a very weak justification for them just trying to save money.

And it's asinine to say that this single incident isn't worth keeping Grimes over when Robinson has a litany of worse character issues, and yet you're still choosing to keep him. If the issue was about character, then there's no way you'd keep Robinson instead of Grimes. And it's their meager attempts to try and paint Grimes as a "me first" guy, and it's complete BS just like it was with John Abraham 6 years ago. And there's no more a "me first" guy on this team with Roddy White being the lone exception than Dunta Robinson.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:41 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Again, fun gus you're missing the entire point of this. It's not about character or heart, it's about money..



No I am not missing the point Pudge. It IS about heart.

Good grief where was this passion when we cut Grady? :P

I get your logic. I understand the problem here. It's all about money, and 'star power' and how did that work out for Philly?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch a guy who everyone said was going to flame out is playing in 30 minutes in the second round.

Now look, if the FO is putting this sh*t out there underhanded just to f*ck with Grimes 'reputation' then I am on your side. If it's completely untrue that Grimes himself made an active decision to 'make a statement' or even just to 'protect himself' :roll: then I got his back, but if it IS true: get the f*ck on down the road.

It seems to me a guy who is much beloved on this team has all the ability to squash any of this. Hello? Ms Grimes LOVES a good Twitter War. He has an agent. He has his own social media. His contract is up, and unless they tag him, he is free to go wherever he wants to go, right?. If he's gettin the ol' shove off, there is any number of ways to bitch about it ( dont you remember Gravy on his way out?). That's why I am uncertain this rumor may be true. But if it is, off you go to Muchkinland.

But if they cut him without trying to even get something for it, that not only tells me that this FO is criminally stupid, but so is Grimes. Because that means they are both acting like teenage a$$holes.

All we know is what we know~which ain't jack squadoo.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:29 pm 
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http://www.thejetsblog.com/2011/06/11/e ... loves-rex/

It was about heart when the Jets traded John Abraham to us, and look how that turned out. If you think this is going to turn out any differently, then you're crazy.

And the fact that Grimes is 29 is not/should not be a concern because Brent Grimes is such a technically sound, and disciplined corner. He's not going to have the usual decline at age 30 or 31 like most corners that tend to live/die by their athletic talents. Like a Champ Bailey, Charles Woodson, or Ty Law, he should be effective even when he's 33 or 34 years old. So you can be fairly confident he's a good investment because you should be able to get 2-3 years out of him at his current level, and potentially another 2 or so on a lesser level, but still a competent starter.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:47 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
http://www.thejetsblog.com/2011/06/11/ex-jet-abraham-blasts-herm-but-loves-rex/

It was about heart when the Jets traded John Abraham to us, and look how that turned out. If you think this is going to turn out any differently, then you're crazy.

And the fact that Grimes is 29 is not/should not be a concern because Brent Grimes is such a technically sound, and disciplined corner. He's not going to have the usual decline at age 30 or 31 like most corners that tend to live/die by their athletic talents. Like a Champ Bailey, Charles Woodson, or Ty Law, he should be effective even when he's 33 or 34 years old. So you can be fairly confident he's a good investment because you should be able to get 2-3 years out of him at his current level, and potentially another 2 or so on a lesser level, but still a competent starter.



oh for chrissake. Really?

Your gonna compare Abraham to Grimes? :roll:

Yeah, I get that because the Falcons slapped the franchise tag twice on Grimes, right? You know, Grimes, the guy that in his rookie season did what Abe did. Yeah, that guy. The one with the alcohol issue.. Of course, were forgetting Grimes 3 Probowl appearances, too. And that fact that he was also injured alot early on, Good f*cking grief already. Dont also forget Grimes DUI, and the fact he bitched about that too. This isnt apples to apples, it apples to passionfruit. Please Pudge! Be reasonable...

And in the end, what happened? "in the 3-way trade that sent Abraham to the Falcons, the Jets ended up with a first-round 2006 draft pick, which they used to pick up Mangold, who’s been a rock for the team’s offensive line. "

So Abe decided not to be a bitch here, but he was a check out guy there. Gotcha. Well, lets make sure we dont make THAT mistake. We certainly dont need any help on the OL with a nice pick. Lets throw some more money at the guy who 'deserves' it. That would be foolish! :lol:

Cmon, fanboy. Your making BnB blush. :oops:

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