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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:42 am 
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fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:
Since you brought Jeebus into this thread, look at touchdown Jesus himself. He would never pull this sh*t. The guy has heart, he's tough he clearly isn't a 'great' QB but look where he is. :pray:
:



:oops:



Yikes! dont know what happened there!

Okay, I am goint to be brutally honest here.

Brent Grimes 'instincts' and ball hawking abilities have covered for his lack of height. I am sorry, but physics and nature are unbreakable laws. Just as the the rules of the league have evolved, so have the players. To be an effective 'shut down' corner, you need 2 things, IMO. You need to be able to be on an island and have a capable/trustworthy player on the otherside. Grimes has overcome this. His speed and leaping abilities have baited QB's ( specially Brees ) and we have reaped it's rewards. But, now he's been injured. His speed is not what it was, he cant jump like he did because he blew his knee out. Watching the playoffs with enormous receivers I just cant see paying Grimes 'top 5 $$', sorry I love the guy but no way. The game has changed so taller QB's and much taller receivers are becoming the norm. The modern CB position cannot be trusted for 5 years to a lil guy. Just like you cant expect the fatass NT to last a decade, either. The NFL doesnt work like that anymore.

In short, I am not so sure the man hasn't peaked, and the FO have seen it and his 'alleged' meltdown certainly would not be helpful.

I just hope in 6 years, he is not looking back and thinking 'crap! Why did I listen to ____?! I could have played a playoff game! I was sooo stupid!' :(

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:17 am 
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Wow, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel to make this argument that it's the right decision to let Brent Grimes go. Talk about reversing the tables with the Grady Jackson talk. But unlike Gravy, who was a middling starter 5 years past his prime at a position where the Falcons were relatively deep, Grimes is a legit Pro Bowler right now in the prime of his career playing a position where the Falcons are very weak. Besides Darrelle Revis and Asante Samuel, he's been the best corner over the past 2 combined years.

So maybe you can say he's peaked in that he won't get any better than he is today. But so what? If there is like 10% drop-off next year, he's still probably a Top 10 corner. And then more drop-off after that, still Top 15. So he probably has 2-3 years where he's a Top 10-20 cornerback. How much is that worth? We paid Dunta Robinson $31.5M over the first 3 years of his contract, and if he's worth that, then Grimes must be worth $60 million!

Why can't I compare Grimes and Abraham? Abraham was one of the best players on the Jets at the time when they traded him to us rather than pay him. And Grimes is one of the best players on the Falcons, at a time when they are talking about trading him. And it is the same as John Abraham. It's just slandering a guy and questioning his toughness and heart just so that naive fans will be able to swallow the fact that the front office is making a horrible football decision and just being cheap. And there hasn't been a single instance since 2006 when anybody has questioned John Abraham's heart. And I can for damn sure guarantee you that for the next 5 years there won't be a single instance where anybody could potentially question Grimes heart.

DUI? Really? I'm not condoning drunk driving, but let's not try and make a mountain out of a molehill, and act like getting a DUI like 8 years ago is worth getting booted off an NFL team today.

Fanboy? Really? Really? Really?

http://youtu.be/4DVAsmrwdtQ

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:34 am 
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Pudge wrote:
Wow, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel to make this argument that it's the right decision to let Brent Grimes go. Talk about reversing the tables with the Grady Jackson talk. But unlike Gravy, who was a middling starter 5 years past his prime at a position where the Falcons were relatively deep, Grimes is a legit Pro Bowler right now in the prime of his career playing a position where the Falcons are very weak. Besides Darrelle Revis and Asante Samuel, he's been the best corner over the past 2 combined years.

So maybe you can say he's peaked in that he won't get any better than he is today. But so what? If there is like 10% drop-off next year, he's still probably a Top 10 corner. And then more drop-off after that, still Top 15. So he probably has 2-3 years where he's a Top 10-20 cornerback. How much is that worth? We paid Dunta Robinson $31.5M over the first 3 years of his contract, and if he's worth that, then Grimes must be worth $60 million!

Why can't I compare Grimes and Abraham? Abraham was one of the best players on the Jets at the time when they traded him to us rather than pay him. And Grimes is one of the best players on the Falcons, at a time when they are talking about trading him. And it is the same as John Abraham. It's just slandering a guy and questioning his toughness and heart just so that naive fans will be able to swallow the fact that the front office is making a horrible football decision and just being cheap. And there hasn't been a single instance since 2006 when anybody has questioned John Abraham's heart. And I can for damn sure guarantee you that for the next 5 years there won't be a single instance where anybody could potentially question Grimes heart.

DUI? Really? I'm not condoning drunk driving, but let's not try and make a mountain out of a molehill, and act like getting a DUI like 8 years ago is worth getting booted off an NFL team today.

Fanboy? Really? Really? Really?

http://youtu.be/4DVAsmrwdtQ



Pudge, put the crazy pills down.

you know I was joking about Gravy...The joke was in the 'passion' of the defense..You are acting a crazy as I was when they cut him...

"Why can't I compare Grimes and Abraham? Abraham was one of the best players on the Jets at the time when they traded him to us rather than pay him. And Grimes is one of the best players on the Falcons, at a time when they are talking about trading him. And it is the same as John Abraham. "

You are wrong. You cannot compare the two. Put all the 'spin' on it you want..Abraham was a 3 time probowler getting offered a 11 mil 6 yr contract...Grimes is....well a good corner. Abraham not only got a DUI, he showed up reeking at practice. Grimes never did. Abraham took plays off. Grimes never has ( well, until he took a game off. too bad it was a playoff game ). Sean Weatherspoon means more to this defense then Grimes, IMO but thats neither here nor there.

Maybe some lil dude cried one time too many. If they are seriously considering just 'cutting him loose' and not tagging him, it means he told Blank and TD to go sit on a d*ck. Well, good luck, junior. Jesus and Tebow may forgive you, but I dont have to. I just hope its a rumor...
"
FLOWERY BRANCH — Since the dust has started to settle from the Falcons’ early playoff exit, perhaps the most troubling thing to come out of the defeat was how the team was dominated physically by the New York Giants.

The Falcons couldn’t “knock back the line of scrimmage” on a couple of short-yardage situations when they had a difficult time blocking the Giants’ strong front seven.

In essence, the Falcons were built as a power football team and now are undergoing a full analysis of their roster to make sure that they can play the style of football that coach Mike Smith and general manager Thomas Dimitroff want to play.

“Anytime you’re playing in the National Football League, you need to be able to go toe-to-toe to have the toughness for that extra inch, or extra yards to get the touchdown or whatever it may be to survive in the game,” Dimitroff said. “I think we have some very tough players on this football team. I think we continue to need more tough players with that battling soul. I think that’s very, very important.”

The Falcons, through free agency and the draft, plan to makeover their roster. However, their penchant in the post-Michael Vick era to heavily consider character of their players, makes their quest more difficult.

In his book “War Room: The Legacy of Bill Belichick and the Art of Building the Perfect Team,” Michael Holley writes about Belichick, Kansas City general manager Scott Pioli and Dimitroff and their thoughts on building that perfect team. Pioli and Dimitroff worked with Belichick in New England.

The Falcons, in their quest for players with high football intelligence and good character, had the most “black dots” on their draft board in the league. Players that the team won’t consider are given black dots. Even the image-conscious owner, Arthur Blank, was concerned with the number of “black dots.”

The Falcons also have “block dots-plus” players on their draft board.

In their quest to stay away from “challenged souls” the Falcons may be missing out on much needed help to become a championship-caliber team.

“We are very particular about the chemistry. With that said, we’ve never talked about, I’ve said this, angelic souls, who are just kind of skipping around doing their thing,” Dimitroff said. “We’re talking about getting guys, who at the core, are team guys. Who at the core have this desire and this passion to win and win every game, win big and win for a long time and [reach] the ultimate goal.

“That’s what we are looking for. I know that’s what Mike Smith is looking for. That’s the type of coach he is. That’s how Arthur Blank is an owner and what his expectations are.”

The Falcons don’t appear ready to change their player-acquisition process.

“There is no question that we scrutinize the personality and the character [of the players] that we bring in, and we’ll continue to do so,” Dimitroff said. “We’re not going to adjust our approach.”

Blank supports this philosophy.

“We have to be careful that we bring in players that add to the chemistry and not only add to the quality of the play,” Blank said. “It doesn’t mean that they can’t make all of the criteria of tough, physical and mean players.”

The Falcons first must evaluate their roster, and Dimitroff said there would be no “sacred cows.”

The Falcons have 17 unrestricted free agents, including linebacker Curtis Lofton, defensive end John Abraham, center Todd McClure, cornerback Brent Grimes, safety Thomas DeCoud, defensive end Kroy Biermann, backup quarterback Chris Redman and special-teams standout Eric Weems.

The salary cap for 2012 has not been set yet. Last season, the cap was $120 million. The Falcons have $100.2 million on their report for 2012 and could clear as much as $26.1 million if they elect to clean house.

“Given the free agents that are available, we could have some significant room,” Dimitroff said. “That’s what we are working on right now by trying to analyze where our moves are going to come [from] and how we are going to clear out some space.”

Dimitroff also said that recent free-agent signees have netted mixed results. He noted cornerback Robinson’s inconsistent play last season and defensive end Ray Edwards’ low sack count of 3.5 last season, when the team was hoping for double-digit sacks.

“There is a foundation that is here,” Dimitroff said. “I’m not suggesting that we are going to blow everything up. This is the idea of scrutinizing everyone along the football operations before we move forward.” "

http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-falco ... 02718.html

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:36 am 
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I never thought I'd see the day where Pudge would stop caring about the Falcons if they let Grimes go... My life is now complete and I can die happy :dance: :up:

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:04 am 
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I like Grimes. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:14 am 
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So Dunta Robinson and Roddy White are team first guys? Ray Edwards? :roll:

I'm all for targeting good character guys, but you have to be able to bend the rules at times. It's because of character concerns that this team passed on Aaron Hernandez, and see how well that's paid off for them.

Again, you keep trying to paint this picture that Brent Grimes quit on this team and his teammates. When he did no such thing. The guy had a legit injury that could have kept him out of the game, and at worst opted not to jeopardize his financial future by playing on a bum knee in a playoff game. It's no different than Roddy White or Dunta Robinson holding out before the season starts. It's the exact same thing. It's "I want to get paid more money and therefore I'm going to withhold my services to try and put myself in a better position to get paid." But unlike players that are 100% healthy holding out in August, Grimes did it at the end of the year when he was legitimately injured. His being listed as questionable wasn't the typical Falcons questionable which is really just probable. There was legitimately a 50/50 shot he would play Sunday vs. the Giants. The Falcons were so unsure about whether he would play they had to keep him out of Thursday's practice as a "precautionary measure" because he was borderline on whether even making the attempt to practice would cause a setback in his recovery.

If he really had it out for the team, then he wouldn't have fought so hard to come back from knee surgery, obviously a few weeks earlier than he should have to play in the biggest game of the 2nd half of the Falcons season (MNF vs. the Saints), where he re-injured the knee very early in that game, but still gutted through it. He could have had season-ending knee surgery. We're not talking about a groin pull, we're talking about a legit knee injury that required surgery.

Everything you know about Brent Grimes over the past 5 years he's been with this team suggests that he's one of the hardest working guys on the team, and now because of one sentence that "some within the organization were surprised and disappointed he didn't play" all of sudden you're reading into that means that he quit on this team and his teammates? Could that some be Mike Smith? Sure. Could it be Thomas Dimitroff and Arthur Blank? Sure, but it could just as easily be Jay Adams or their west coast regional scout, who would have no insight on the situation.

The hard reality is that if the Falcons don't keep Grimes, it's because they don't want to pay Grimes. And they fabricated some excuse of how Grimes is carcinogenic to the locker room which is the biggest steaming pile of bullshit that has ever been served up, and you have gobbled it down like it was $45 surf and turf.

If it was about what was good character, then they would be sending Dunta Robinson, Ray Edwards, and Roddy White right out the door with Brent Grimes. If it was about being fearful that Brent Grimes had already peaked, then Michael Turner, Tony Gonzalez, Curtis Lofton, John Abraham, Tyson Clabo, Jonathan Babineaux would all not be on this team in 2012.

Nope, it's all about money. And it'll wind up being another huge mistake just like almost all of this team's big financial decisions have been over recent years.

It's just like that Thomas DeCoud strutting thing, where you are faulting a player for having the exact same actions that EVERY OTHER player in the league would have had. This player that you envision would have come back in Grimes circumstances doesn't exist, and even if he does exist, is so few and far between that the expectation that you can build a roster with 53 of those guys or even 25 of them and win in the NFL is a pipe dream.

Again if this alleged incident is all that it takes to get Grimes the boot, then what is it that Dunta Robinson has to do to get the boot? Explain to me why Brent Grimes is a "black dot" player while Robinson, Roddy White, and Ray Edwards are not.

And riddle me this, until 2 days ago when you read this thread, did you at any point in the past 5 years question Brent Grimes heart? And you read this one blurb by Dan Parr, and now all of a sudden Brent Grimes lacks heart, Brent Grimes is good but not great, Brent Grimes has peaked, Brent Grimes can't make it against big wideouts. Yeah, I've made those arguments before, but from actually watching the games, I know how wrong those arguments are/were. Grimes can't handle the premier big wideouts?

Here are Grimes numbers against the bigger No. 1 WRs he faced this year:

TB-Mike Williams 6'2" 212 (2 targets, 1 reception, 12 yards, 6.0 YPA, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 0 PDs)
SEA-Sidney Rice 6'4" 202 (4 / 1 / 52 / 13.0 / 1 / 0 / 1)
GB-Jordy Nelson 6'3" 217 (5 / 2 / 10 / 2.0 / 0 / 0 / 1)
DET-Calvin Johnson 6'5" 236 (4 / 2 / 14 / 3.5 / 0 / 0 / 2)
NO1-Marques Colston 6'4" 225 (1 / 1 / 10 / 10.0 / 0 / 0 / 0)
NO2-Marques Colston 6'4" 225 (3 / 2 / 15 / 5.0 / 0 / 0 / 1)

Those guys combined for 9 catches on 19 targets (47.4% completions) for 113 yds (5.9 YPA), 1 TD allowed, 0 INTs, and 5 PDs. Those 5 WRs average a height of slightly over 6'3 1/2" and a weight of 218 pounds. Remember Grimes is roughly 5'9 1/2" 183 lbs.

For the record, Williams caught 54% of the passes thrown to him. Rice 57%, Nelson 74%, Johnson 64%, and Colston 76%.

But keep it coming fun gus, I'm looking to see what other excuses you can scrape out of the bottom of that barrel to justify why it's a wise move to get rid of Brent Grimes, and keep these other bums that somehow pass for being "team first" guys.

:beef:

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:35 am 
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Pudge wrote:
So Dunta Robinson and Roddy White are team first guys? Ray Edwards? :roll:

I'm all for targeting good character guys, but you have to be able to bend the rules at times. It's because of character concerns that this team passed on Aaron Hernandez, and see how well that's paid off for them.

Again, you keep trying to paint this picture that Brent Grimes quit on this team and his teammates. When he did no such thing. The guy had a legit injury that could have kept him out of the game, and at worst opted not to jeopardize his financial future by playing on a bum knee in a playoff game. It's no different than Roddy White or Dunta Robinson holding out before the season starts. It's the exact same thing. It's "I want to get paid more money and therefore I'm going to withhold my services to try and put myself in a better position to get paid." But unlike players that are 100% healthy holding out in August, Grimes did it at the end of the year when he was legitimately injured. His being listed as questionable wasn't the typical Falcons questionable which is really just probable. There was legitimately a 50/50 shot he would play Sunday vs. the Giants. The Falcons were so unsure about whether he would play they had to keep him out of Thursday's practice as a "precautionary measure" because he was borderline on whether even making the attempt to practice would cause a setback in his recovery.

If he really had it out for the team, then he wouldn't have fought so hard to come back from knee surgery, obviously a few weeks earlier than he should have to play in the biggest game of the 2nd half of the Falcons season (MNF vs. the Saints), where he re-injured the knee very early in that game, but still gutted through it. He could have had season-ending knee surgery. We're not talking about a groin pull, we're talking about a legit knee injury that required surgery.

Everything you know about Brent Grimes over the past 5 years he's been with this team suggests that he's one of the hardest working guys on the team, and now because of one sentence that "some within the organization were surprised and disappointed he didn't play" all of sudden you're reading into that means that he quit on this team and his teammates? Could that some be Mike Smith? Sure. Could it be Thomas Dimitroff and Arthur Blank? Sure, but it could just as easily be Jay Adams or their west coast regional scout, who would have no insight on the situation.

The hard reality is that if the Falcons don't keep Grimes, it's because they don't want to pay Grimes. And they fabricated some excuse of how Grimes is carcinogenic to the locker room which is the biggest steaming pile of bullshit that has ever been served up, and you have gobbled it down like it was $45 surf and turf.

If it was about what was good character, then they would be sending Dunta Robinson, Ray Edwards, and Roddy White right out the door with Brent Grimes. If it was about being fearful that Brent Grimes had already peaked, then Michael Turner, Tony Gonzalez, Curtis Lofton, John Abraham, Tyson Clabo, Jonathan Babineaux would all not be on this team in 2012.

Nope, it's all about money. And it'll wind up being another huge mistake just like almost all of this team's big financial decisions have been over recent years.

It's just like that Thomas DeCoud strutting thing, where you are faulting a player for having the exact same actions that EVERY OTHER player in the league would have had. This player that you envision would have come back in Grimes circumstances doesn't exist, and even if he does exist, is so few and far between that the expectation that you can build a roster with 53 of those guys or even 25 of them and win in the NFL is a pipe dream.

Again if this alleged incident is all that it takes to get Grimes the boot, then what is it that Dunta Robinson has to do to get the boot? Explain to me why Brent Grimes is a "black dot" player while Robinson, Roddy White, and Ray Edwards are not.

And riddle me this, until 2 days ago when you read this thread, did you at any point in the past 5 years question Brent Grimes heart? And you read this one blurb by Dan Parr, and now all of a sudden Brent Grimes lacks heart, Brent Grimes is good but not great, Brent Grimes has peaked, Brent Grimes can't make it against big wideouts. Yeah, I've made those arguments before, but from actually watching the games, I know how wrong those arguments are/were. Grimes can't handle the premier big wideouts?

Here are Grimes numbers against the bigger No. 1 WRs he faced this year:

TB-Mike Williams 6'2" 212 (2 targets, 1 reception, 12 yards, 6.0 YPA, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 0 PDs)
SEA-Sidney Rice 6'4" 202 (4 / 1 / 52 / 13.0 / 1 / 0 / 1)
GB-Jordy Nelson 6'3" 217 (5 / 2 / 10 / 2.0 / 0 / 0 / 1)
DET-Calvin Johnson 6'5" 236 (4 / 2 / 14 / 3.5 / 0 / 0 / 2)
NO1-Marques Colston 6'4" 225 (1 / 1 / 10 / 10.0 / 0 / 0 / 0)
NO2-Marques Colston 6'4" 225 (3 / 2 / 15 / 5.0 / 0 / 0 / 1)

Those guys combined for 9 catches on 19 targets (47.4% completions) for 113 yds (5.9 YPA), 1 TD allowed, 0 INTs, and 5 PDs. Those 5 WRs average a height of slightly over 6'3 1/2" and a weight of 218 pounds. Remember Grimes is roughly 5'9 1/2" 183 lbs.

For the record, Williams caught 54% of the passes thrown to him. Rice 57%, Nelson 74%, Johnson 64%, and Colston 76%.

But keep it coming fun gus, I'm looking to see what other excuses you can scrape out of the bottom of that barrel to justify why it's a wise move to get rid of Brent Grimes, and keep these other bums that somehow pass for being "team first" guys.

:beef:

reading is not only fun, it's fundamental! :beef:

I'll try one more time. Once more into the breach!

I like Grimes. Never ever had a problem with him. I still like him, and would want him to stay. But lets talk about Grimes just for minute before moving on. Not DeCouldn't. Not Abraham. Not what Sports Nerd.com says about every other miniature CB in the league.

Just Brent.

Is Brent Grimes a 'black dot guy'? No, I do not believe so. He has given me no reason to consider him as such, but I'm not in Flowery Branch.

Is he the best CB on our roster? Undoubtedly.

Your August vs January hold out comparison is weak at best. If a player holds out in August, how does that affect the teams chances in the postseason? The answer of course is none. If a player holds out in January, in order to make a statement, and that player is the best on the roster for the position, then that player affects the team more then the example mentioned in August. Again, apples and oranges. Comparing a CB to a 3 time probowler, apples and oranges. And for the record, I doubt it would have made much difference vs Eli and co, but you really cant say for certain until the ball is snapped. So lets not get sidetracked into making excuses for bad behavior because 'we would have lost anyways' :naughty:

Now that being said ( and please read and understand this ) if Brent wants to sit out when he is 80% I generally do not have a problem with it with two exceptions.

1:it is a playoff game
2:it is an end of season game determining a playoff appearance.

Pretty simple, right? And that goes for any player on the team.

I dont particularly care who it is. If Matt Ryan was in the final year of his contract and was 80% and decided to 'protect' himself, I have the same problem. But we 'know' that will not happen with Ryan.

Now read what I said. And remember the source. If the rumor is true, then I think if Brent held out when he could have played:then if we franchise tagged him and got a 1st round pick, I dont have a problem with it. It's essentially what the Jets did and while you point to thier lack of explosive DE's since they jettisoned Abe, you purposefully overlook the 1st rounder Mangold which has solidified thier OL for years now.

Since we wasted all our picks on Julio, we need a 1st rounder. It would not be a wise move to get rid of Grimes just because of our OL, but if he is holding out, AND we need help, then I'm not against packaging him and saying 'good luck' lil man.

"Again if this alleged incident is all that it takes to get Grimes the boot, then what is it that Dunta Robinson has to do to get the boot?"

well lots of things, but here's one" If Dunta sat himself in a playoff game where he could have played ". The thing is we cant get anything for Dunta. Right?

We dont know what really happened. Your speaking with impunity that TD and Smitty (or Jay Adams,etc) has it out for Grimes because they dont want to spend the $$. :roll: Image

I dont know if that is true. But I have said, if it is,I will be right there with ya. And if they just let him walk without getting anythingn for him, I will go farther then 'not caring', I would get a pitchfork and a torch and march my fat ass all the way to Flowery Branch myself.


Now, do we understand each other?

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:05 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
Is Brent Grimes a 'black dot guy'? No, I do not believe so. He has given me no reason to consider him as such, but I'm not in Flowery Branch.

Then why have you written him off so easily?

fun gus wrote:
Comparing a CB to a 3 time probowler, apples and oranges.

Nope. Brent Grimes IMO has deserved to be named to the Pro Bowl in each of the past two years. So in my eyes, he is on the same plane. And yes, he's a CB which IMO is as or more valuable than a DE or any pass rusher. Abraham made his 3rd pro bowl in '04 because Richard Seymour bowed out due to the Super Bowl.

What you've done methodically here in this thread is try to minimize what Brent Grimes accomplishments. And because you read a blurb nd inferred something from that single sentence, when the core of that article was saying it was a money issue, and the same writer posted on Twitter that it was a money issue, but because your initial inference that Brent Grimes lacks heart, you've tried to reconfigure the world around this viewpoint. Now, all of a sudden Brent Grimes isn't anything special and he's not a team player.

You're focusing on this:
Dan Parr wrote:
The team was expecting him to suit up vs. the Giants, but he was added to the list of inactives the morning of the game and we hear some inside the organization were very surprised, and disappointed, that he didn't play.


When you should be focusing on this:
Dan Parr wrote:
We hear that Grimes, the team's top corner, is likely to price himself out of the team's range.

and this:
Dan Parr on Twitter wrote:
On #Falcons CB Brent Grimes - it's not that team doesn't think he's a good player. He will be an expensive player. Expect him to move on.


And what we've done in this thread, is go back and forth about Brent Grimes character (or lack thereof in your view), when that isn't the core issue.

He wasn't hurt, he was injured. And so I do not fault him for not going the extra mile to sacrifice for this team if/when he already knew that the writing was on the wall that he probably wasn't going to be on this team in a couple of months. And if you think there are hundreds if not thousands of NFL players that would have done it any different than Grimes, then you my friend, are very, very naive. NFL players today aren't what they were 20, 30, 40 years ago. The $$$ has changed that. The Ronnie Lotts and Merrill Hoges of yesteryear don't exist anymore. And especially for Brent Grimes, where this off-season is his one shot to set up himself and his family for the rest of their lives by landing a contract somewhere between $40-70 million, and you think he should jeopardize that for the sake of the team, esp. a team that has shown no strong inclination that they even want him?

And what they've done is try to put this issue of heart out there as a red herring over the reality that it boils down to the Falcons being cheap and stupid. And by "they" I mean those same sources within the organization that Parr was citing.

And instead of doing what you should be doing, and calling them out for this BS, you've bought this BS hook, line, and sinker, and now going back and forth with me and trying your best to make the argument that it's a good thing that the Falcons are getting rid of Grimes.

Sure, the Jets got Nick Mangold as part of that John Abraham trade. So they didn't get nothing out of that. Mangold is the best center in the league and has performed at that level for the past 3-4 years. But guess what was also a consequence of that trade? The Jets have spent a bunch of money on pass rushers trying to replace Abraham. $20 million to Bryan Thomas in '06. $42 million to Calvin Pace in '08. $5 million on an over the hill Jason Taylor in 2010. A Top 10 pick on Vernon Gholston in '08. And now their newest reclamation project Aaron Maybin. And it's very likely that they could use their No. 1 pick this year on another pass rusher as well. So let's not sit here and pretend that it's been all smiles and gumdrops in New York, thanks to that Abraham trade.

It's likely that if the Falcons deal Grimes, they could get something good in return, but they may wind up spending an inordinate amount of resources over the next 5-6 years trying to find that piece they already had in Grimes.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:13 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
I like Grimes. :shock:


Me too.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:35 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
He wasn't hurt, he was injured. And so I do not fault him for not going the extra mile to sacrifice for this team if/when he already knew that the writing was on the wall that he probably wasn't going to be on this team in a couple of months..



I get your point Pudge, Like I said five times, if it is true and this is a scheme to part ways with Grimes only for the sake of saving $$, then it's despicable and I will join you in your contempt. But we just dont know. Yet.

But, if it's also true that Grimes ( or any other player for that matter ) sat out a playoff game when they could have played over a contract extension, then I will happily, naively say 'bye bye jackass'.

Your milage may vary.

If they let his guy walk without even tagging him, that is abominable. agree?

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Quote:
And what we've done in this thread, is go back and forth about Brent Grimes character (or lack thereof in your view), when that isn't the core issue.

He wasn't hurt, he was injured. And so I do not fault him for not going the extra mile to sacrifice for this team if/when he already knew that the writing was on the wall that he probably wasn't going to be on this team in a couple of months. And if you think there are hundreds if not thousands of NFL players that would have done it any different than Grimes, then you my friend, are very, very naive. NFL players today aren't what they were 20, 30, 40 years ago. The $$$ has changed that. The Ronnie Lotts and Merrill Hoges of yesteryear don't exist anymore. And especially for Brent Grimes, where this off-season is his one shot to set up himself and his family for the rest of their lives by landing a contract somewhere between $40-70 million, and you think he should jeopardize that for the sake of the team, esp. a team that has shown no strong inclination that they even want him?

And what they've done is try to put this issue of heart out there as a red herring over the reality that it boils down to the Falcons being cheap and stupid. And by "they" I mean those same sources within the organization that Parr was citing.

And instead of doing what you should be doing, and calling them out for this BS, you've bought this BS hook, line, and sinker, and now going back and forth with me and trying your best to make the argument that it's a good thing that the Falcons are getting rid of Grimes.

Sure, the Jets got Nick Mangold as part of that John Abraham trade. So they didn't get nothing out of that. Mangold is the best center in the league and has performed at that level for the past 3-4 years. But guess what was also a consequence of that trade? The Jets have spent a bunch of money on pass rushers trying to replace Abraham. $20 million to Bryan Thomas in '06. $42 million to Calvin Pace in '08. $5 million on an over the hill Jason Taylor in 2010. A Top 10 pick on Vernon Gholston in '08. And now their newest reclamation project Aaron Maybin. And it's very likely that they could use their No. 1 pick this year on another pass rusher as well. So let's not sit here and pretend that it's been all smiles and gumdrops in New York, thanks to that Abraham trade.

It's likely that if the Falcons deal Grimes, they could get something good in return, but they may wind up spending an inordinate amount of resources over the next 5-6 years trying to find that piece they already had in Grimes.


Pudge please work for ESPN or something because you're simply blowing everyone away. I'm not sucking up here, but i'm seriously impressed by your words. You couldn't have been anymore right here. If there is anything to say about character concerns, well look at Dunta. Do you see Grimes making illegal hits? Do you see him fighting with other players? Brent is a good role model and deserves to be grossly overpaid here. I'm not sure what the deal was with him sitting out of a playoff game, but the guy has been among the best cornerbacks in the last two years. Other than Revis, I'm not sure if their was any other corner in the NFL I would want than Grimes. Call me bias or delusional, but it's the truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:48 pm 
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Emmitt wrote:
Pudge please work for ESPN or something because you're simply blowing everyone away. I'm not sucking up here, but i'm seriously impressed by your words. You couldn't have been anymore right here.



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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Wease wrote:
Emmitt wrote:
Pudge please work for ESPN or something because you're simply blowing everyone away. I'm not sucking up here, but i'm seriously impressed by your words. You couldn't have been anymore right here.



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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Grimes has always been a team player and we have never heard a peep about him having character issues. I highly doubt that he skipped a playoff game because of his contract. If you know due to injury that you are going to be a liability to your team, it's a good for the team move not to play. It's crazy how years of good hard play and being a good team mate can be challenged due to one reporter's sentence not even naming names.....

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:16 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
If they let his guy walk without even tagging him, that is abominable. agree?

I'm saying they shouldn't let him walk PERIOD, even if they tagged him and got a 1st round pick back for him.

It shouldn't even be under consideration. If the Falcons are thinking about ways to get back into the first round, I commend them for it. But at no point should the possibility of trading Brent Grimes be a serious consideration. Instead, they should be looking at dealing a player such as Roddy White. Look, I'm not trying to trash Roddy White as if he's a bum. But when you have Julio Jones on the roster, and given Roddy's issues over the year (he friggin took a swing at a NYG corner in the playoff game out of sheer frustration), and the fact that WRs are as much a dime a dozen as RBs and TEs are, there's no reason for this team to be married to Roddy.

IMHO, the only possible good outcome that could come of dealing Brent Grimes, is if the Falcons hire a DC that brings in a bump n' run heavy scheme, they get a Top 15-20 pick in exchange for Grimes, and manage to snag LSU's Mo Claiborne or Bama's Dre Kirkpatrick, who IMO in such a scheme have elite potential.

IMHO, if the Falcons enter this season with Dunta Robinson and/or Dominique Franks/Chris Owens as their starting corners, they are complete nincompoops.

To me the core issue here is that the Falcons may not pay Brent Grimes. ANd the reason why they aren't going to pay Brent Grimes is because they believe he's going to land one of those big contracts like I listed above which pays him somewhere between $10-11M/yr. and has $20-25M guaranteed.

And the reason for that isn't because he's not worth it (because he is), isn't because he's peaked as a player (because he hasn't), or that he may have less than ideal character (which he doesn't), it's because the Falcons have already invested quite a bit of money already in that position because of the Dunta Robinson signing.

They overpaid Dunta Robinson, which many of us stated 2 years ago. And because of that mistake, they are about to make another mistake by letting Brent Grimes walk. This has everything to do with Dunta Robinson. This hole issue of him playing or not playing in the Giants is a minor peripheral thing. It has nothing to do with the core issue, that this team is about to let their best defensive player the guy that has consistently impacted more games in the past 2 seasons than any other defensive player walk because they are unwilling to admit that they screwed up by signing Dunta Robinson to such a big contract.

They've apparently made the decision that they don't want to have two $60 million corners on the roster. OK fine. But instead of choosing the guy that is actually worth $60 million (Grimes), they are choosing the guy that isn't (Robinson).

The Jets made a mistake by dealing Abraham, that's what I'm trying to tell you is about to happen to the Falcons. It doesn't matter that they used that pick on Nick Mangold. They didn't need that pick to get Mangold. They got the #29 pick in that Abraham trade, but already held the #35 pick which they were likely planning to try and use on Mangold. They traded out of the #35 spot once they snagged Mangold at #29.

The point is that it didn't boil down to Abraham or Mangold. They could have easily had both if they wanted to, and not had to spend the $80 million over the past 6 years (instead of the $45 million we spent on Abraham) trying to find Abe's replacement.

However much the Falcons could spend on Grimes today ($60 million?) they would more than likely through free agency and draft picks spend much more over the next 5-6 years trying to find that replacement. You're better off keeping Grimes, and then shuffling around other players and picks to get that coveted #1 pick. Because unless this team nets a Top 15 pick, it's highly doubtful they are going to be able to find another CB that adds the same value.

But you keep trying to make this an issue of heart/character/etc., when it is at its essence this team choosing to keep Dunta Robinson over Brent Grimes. And it's not because Dunta Robinson has more heart/character/etc. than Grimes does because nobody in their right mind would say he does, it's because they have already wasted x amount of $$ on Robinson, and are just trying to save face.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:33 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
I'm saying they shouldn't let him walk PERIOD, even if they tagged him and got a 1st round pick back for him.

It shouldn't even be under consideration.



I disagree. NOTHING should ever be 'verboten'. I want success. If that means making drastic changes, so be it. Im tired of saying it, but if he sat himself then give Dunta the money. Just because he doesn't 'deserve it' does not forgive sitting out. good luck sitting out somewhere else.

aint never, ever going to change my mind about THAT. it certainly dont make sense. But f*ck quitters.

f*ck em. Now if Grimes is innocent, good news. If he rode the pine on puropose he can ride the Greyhound. Rub some dirt on it and man up. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:14 pm 
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But he's not going to sit out elsewhere, just like John Abraham didn't shut it down for the Falcons after the Jets brass accused him of the same thing. He's going to get paid by some other team, and likely be a pretty good corner for that team.

Sure, everything is worth thinking about. BUt not every thing is worth serious consideration. Like you may consider for a few minutes what you might deal Matt Ryan for. But you're not giving it serious consideration. Sure, you might think if the Colts were willing to give up the #1 pick for Ryan, you would at least think about it. BUt you don't go into the off-season and call up Jim Irsay and shop Ryan to him.

If the Falcons are adamant about not paying two corners $60 million, then they need to stop planning to move Grimes, and think of how they can turn Dunta Robinson into a 3rd or 4th round pick.

If you tag Grimes, it should not be with the purpose of trading him, it's so that you can buy yourself more time to negotiate a long-term deal. Now if you tag Grimes, and some other team calls you up and offers their 1st round pick, that's when you really give it serious consideration.

But the Falcons top priorities this off-season should be: 1) Improving their play in the trenches on both sides of the ball and 2) Not letting Grimes get away.

If the Falcons can accomplish both those two things, then they've "won" this off-season. If they do not, then they better land Asante Samuel, Mo Claiborne, or some Brandon Flowers equivalent in Round 2 of the draft as the excuse for not keeping Grimes.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:52 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
I can't see how the Falcons could make the conscious decision to not try and lock up Grimes long-term. The guy has played his tail off the past two years, and definitely earned a contract. And for this to team to come back and say you're "too expensive" really is just the craziest thing I've ever heard. That means that team is willing to overpay for Dunta Robinson, who can't hold the jock of the guy that is actually holding Grimes jock, and go with guys like Chris Owens and Dominique Franks, who did indeed hold their own. But instead of looking at that, seeing they did a decent job and getting rid of the guy who is the real problem (Robinson), they are going to let their best defensive player walk?

And you're going to keep Dunta Robinson? A guy who is nothing more than a sanctioned thug? A guy that almost started a brawl in the Bucs game for taking a cheap shot on a defenseless receiver? A guy that got into a shouting match with his head coach? A guy that has maybe had 6 good games in the past 32 games?

And you're going to keep him over a guy that has probably only had 4 bad games in the past 32? A guy that is the personification of toughness and hard work? That his only character concern is that his girlfriend got into a twitter war with the world's worst beat writer?

Everybody knows that the Falcons paid too much for Dunta Robinson. But it's a mistake that hasn't really blown up in their face because of the steady play of Brent Grimes on the other side. But they are going to compound that mistake by making a much bigger mistake by letting Grimes walk?

Even if you were to tag him and net a 1st round pick in exchange for him, it's still a huge mistake. And the bottom line here seems to be that the Falcons would let him go because they can't afford him. And the reason they can't afford him is because they overpaid for a much worse player in Robinson. And instead of fixing that mistake, you compound with the hugest mistake ever by getting rid of Grimes?

All I'll say is that whatever the consequences of such a move, Thomas Dimitroff and Mike Smith will deserve every bit of it. If a Grimes-less Falcons defense is atrocious next year, and this team limps it's way to a 6-10 season, then so be it.

I'm a Falcon fan, but it doesn't mean I have to root for TD and Smitty. f*** them.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:30 pm 
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John O wrote:

'yep. because nothing makes more fiscal sense comparing MLB with no salary cap to the NFL which has one, and the NBA who's referees can be bought or influenced and almost sat themselves out as well.... :roll:

You cannot possibly even begin to compare 'bad contracts' between the three sports.

Look we all hate Dunta but dont make it out like he is stealing Grime's $$. He isnt waxing his moustache next to his locker. That's where Pudge's Occupy Flowery Branch comes in.

It's not Brent Grimes 'money' to steal. It is Blanks. And he is restricted. So if they want to reward one player it is not ALL at the 'cost' of the other player. Lets stop this nonsense. If Brent Grimes sh*ts interceptions and heals lepers, dont matter. If the coaches , doctors and FO says move on, then pack it up. PROVIDED you get something.

So I guess the line here is that the FO, in an attempt not to appear foolish, may let Grimes go. Because they want to cover for thier mistake. :roll: Never mind the guy missed 4 of the last 5 games, is not a prototypical body size CB, wants a lockdown multiyear contract at 29, and maybe....maybe ...maybe... :?: decided to sit instead of play. Never mind that his backups didn't completely sh*t the bed those last 4 games. The certainly stained some sheets but really?

Good grief I was/am a fan but I haven't seen this type of jock riding since dog killer. I dont think Grimes is worth a 4-5 year deal. There, I said it. I think he wont make it 4-5 years at the level he is playing at due to his age and body size. I would however offer him a 3 year deal with incentives, but only if that sittin story aint true..So burn me baby, but that's what I think.

Everyone acts like I WANT TO sh*t on Grimes, not true. Hey how 'bout this? If it's completely true he didnt want to play then..

Trade Grimes for a 1st round pick and select Dre Kirkpatrick, 6 4 4.40 from Bama.

You guys will forget him like a fat stripper. Even BnB!!

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:04 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
So if they want to reward one player it is not ALL at the 'cost' of the other player.

In this case, it is exactly like that. Because they aren't going to pay Grimes because they have a stigma against paying two corners $60 million. And they already made their bed with Robinson, and they seemingly are prepared to lie in it.

fun gus wrote:
Good grief I was/am a fan but I haven't seen this type of jock riding since dog killer. I dont think Grimes is worth a 4-5 year deal. There, I said it.

And I'm betting you're saying that because of the sliver of doubt that has been inserted in your brain because of this article that was mentioned in the first post, where you read into it that Brent Grimes lacks heart. Had Dan Parr never written this story, I'd bet that you would be alongside me saying that he was the one free agent that the Falcons must re-sign.

viewtopic.php?p=104274#p104274
viewtopic.php?p=103795#p103795

And for the record, when we paid Dunta Robinson his huge 6-yr. deal he was a month away from his 28th birthday and hadn't been good in 3 years.

fun gus wrote:
Trade Grimes for a 1st round pick and select Dre Kirkpatrick, 6 4 4.40 from Bama.

You guys will forget him like a fat stripper. Even BnB!!

You know what would be better. Trade Dunta Robinson and someone else to get a 1st round pick, and then put Kirkpatrick and Grimes on the same team.

At the end of the day, whether it's this year, next year, or the year after, the Falcons are going to get rid of Dunta Robinson, and dump him like a bad habit. Even if Kirkpatrick turned into the next Darrelle Revis, it's still going to expose the fact that D-Rob cannot cut it on the other side.

Because at that point, people are still going to be pissed that D-Rob is "stealing from Arthur Blank." And they will still wish they had Kirkpatrick & Grimes instead of Kirkpatrick & Robinson. And while Grimes may not be killing it in Tennessee or wherever he winds up, but we'll still know he's better than Robinson.

Fun gus, you don't have to stay in that corner anymore. I'm extending my hand, and you can come out now, admit you're wrong, and we won't hold this over you. Everybody's gonna know that you came to your senses before it was too late. It's gonna be OK.

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
fun gus wrote:
So if they want to reward one player it is not ALL at the 'cost' of the other player.

In this case, it is exactly like that. Because they aren't going to pay Grimes because they have a stigma against paying two corners $60 million. And they already made their bed with Robinson, and they seemingly are prepared to lie in it.

fun gus wrote:
Good grief I was/am a fan but I haven't seen this type of jock riding since dog killer. I dont think Grimes is worth a 4-5 year deal. There, I said it.

And I'm betting you're saying that because of the sliver of doubt that has been inserted in your brain because of this article that was mentioned in the first post, where you read into it that Brent Grimes lacks heart. Had Dan Parr never written this story, I'd bet that you would be alongside me saying that he was the one free agent that the Falcons must re-sign.

viewtopic.php?p=104274#p104274
viewtopic.php?p=103795#p103795

And for the record, when we paid Dunta Robinson his huge 6-yr. deal he was a month away from his 28th birthday and hadn't been good in 3 years.

fun gus wrote:
Trade Grimes for a 1st round pick and select Dre Kirkpatrick, 6 4 4.40 from Bama.

You guys will forget him like a fat stripper. Even BnB!!

You know what would be better. Trade Dunta Robinson and someone else to get a 1st round pick, and then put Kirkpatrick and Grimes on the same team.

At the end of the day, whether it's this year, next year, or the year after, the Falcons are going to get rid of Dunta Robinson, and dump him like a bad habit. Even if Kirkpatrick turned into the next Darrelle Revis, it's still going to expose the fact that D-Rob cannot cut it on the other side.

Because at that point, people are still going to be pissed that D-Rob is "stealing from Arthur Blank." And they will still wish they had Kirkpatrick & Grimes instead of Kirkpatrick & Robinson. And while Grimes may not be killing it in Tennessee or wherever he winds up, but we'll still know he's better than Robinson.

Fun gus, you don't have to stay in that corner anymore. I'm extending my hand, and you can come out now, admit you're wrong, and we won't hold this over you. Everybody's gonna know that you came to your senses before it was too late. It's gonna be OK.

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:lol: no hard feewings!

"And I'm betting you're saying that because of the sliver of doubt that has been inserted in your brain because of this article that was mentioned in the first post, where you read into it that Brent Grimes lacks heart. Had Dan Parr never written this story, I'd bet that you would be alongside me saying that he was the one free agent that the Falcons must re-sign."

Not really Pudge, I had come to this conclusion waaaay before Mr Parr's broadside. I was just to timid to voice it because I knew the riot it would create. My mind was made up not to sign Grimetime for anything more then 3 years because I saw Grimes struggle more this season against bigger faster WR's then in the past...It may be completely perception too. Grimes used to own Brees. In the first game, before he was injured, he seemed a step off to me. Again: you'll probably find a cute stat to blow that up. But when he came back on the MNF game, and he wasn't 100% it hurt watching him against 6 foot 6 Graham. It was then I started to think about it. I know it's 'unfair' and it probably speaks to Grimes 'heart' positively, but after that display I started thinking more about Grimes contract.... I began to wonder if we locked him up for a 5-6 year huge deal, if it wouldn't be a Nnamdi Asomugha situation.

I know this will get me flamed, but I cant see spending 60 million 6 yrs with 25 guaranteed for Grimes. I'm sorry, but nobody is worth that, not Dunta Not Grimes, not Brandon Carr, Not Cortland Finnegan, Not Carlos Rodgers, Not Eric Wright, William Gay or Al Harris.

Again, I dont have an issue admitting when I'm wrong. For chrissake, I am the guy who said Vick would never take another snap in the NFL :|

But dont just think I starting thinking about this because of Dan Parr, Grimes annoying lippy wife, or anything like that. I began to wonder about giving Grimes the big payday after the MNF game. I know, it's subjective and probably unfair, but that's the deal. You are free to disgree, and I expect you will :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:06 pm 
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Well, I'll buy your glockenspiel and believe that you were off the Grimes bandwagon. Doesn't change the fact that you're wrong, but hey, at least you're honest. :so: :wink: :snooty:

I think Grimes has played at a level that he deserves a lucrative contract. I also believe the corners are still widely underrated by most people for a variety of reasons, which I won't exactly delve into here since I don't want to write another essay, and I've talked about this numerous times before on these boards. I also believe that Grimes has more good years left in him than you think because his game is built off being very technically sound, disciplined, and having great ball skills, those types of things don't diminish with age. It's like being the Jerry Rice of that position, and I think similar to players such as Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, among others he's going to be good for a lot longer period of his early to mid 30s than most corners, who tend to rely on their size, speed, and/or athleticism, something that tends to diminish once a guy hits 30. I don't have the fear that 2-3 years from now he's going to suddenly become Ray Buchanan, and be a guy that is beaten like a drum because he was a gambler that can't gamble anymore because he's lost a step.

After all, one could argue that the huge drop-off we saw with Dunta this year is because he's hit that point. He's always been a guy that relies on his athleticism, and thus why his play dropped off in Houston after his knee injury, and now it may be a reflection of age.

Just the way this off-season is setting up with the Falcons potentially losing John Abraham, and if Ray Edwards doesn't revert to his old form, or Lawrence Sidbury doesn't suddenly morph into Cliff Avril, and Dunta Robinson is our No. 1 corner, and he doesn't play at a level that many/most of us were expecting/hoping for when we signed him (i.e. Pro Bowler), and/or Dominique Franks or Chris Owens doesn't take a huge leap forward like Grimes did 2-3 years ago, and/or this team doesn't replace DeCoud at FS with some ball-hawking Ed Reed/Earl Thomas/Nick Collins type, then I have the feeling our pass defense is going to give that '03 and '09 unit a run for its money as one of the worst we've seen in recent memory in Atlanta.

And if you're the GM of this team, IMO there is absolutely no reason to think ANY of those things are going to happen/bounce your way.

There is still a lot of time till the signings, trades, and draft picks have to be made, but if the way things are setting up is their plan, then my god Thomas Dimitroff is going to make Ken Herock, Dan Reeves, and Rich McKay all look like geniuses...

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Uh oh, fun gus!!!


http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/01 ... nfl-draft/

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 Post subject: Re: Franchise and trade Grimes?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:56 pm 
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Pudge wrote:



why dont they have an emoticon where a smiley face puts a gun to his face and pulls the trigger?

thank God it wasn't Meth. :oops:

Look out Miami, here he comes! Image


Roll Tide! Image

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