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 Post subject: Spielman not impressed w/ Jimmy
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:42 pm 
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Welcome to The Show! On Monday, NFL Insider and former Miami Dolphins GM, Rick Spielman, will stop by to review the NFL draft.
Spielman also worked as Director of Pro Personnel with the Chicago Bears and spent seven seasons in the player personnel department of the Detroit Lions.

Send your NFL questions now and join Rick in The Show on Monday at noon ET!

Spielman Archive: Chats | Columns




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Chris (LA): I know I'm sending in this question very early, but in your mind, which team had the best draft this weekend? Thanks Rick, you can go get some sleep now.

rick spielman: (12:04 PM ET ) What a great weekend. Let's get started

I thought the Eagles had one of the best drafts. They got Bunkley for great value in the first round. Most people thought they would go with Winston Justice. They held the ground not taking a character guy with the first pick and still got him in the second round which was great value. I thought Max Jean Gilles was a great pick in the fourth. Some had him as the best guard in the draft. They were also able to trade away vets Artis Hicks and Thomas Hollis as well. Great job by Andy Reid



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Skylar (Memphis, TN): How much playing time do you think DeAngelo Williams will get in Carolina? About where will he be in their depth chart? Thanks alot!

rick spielman: (12:06 PM ET ) He will be slated behind Foster but will get plenty of play time. Foster has durability issues and DeAngelo Williams was the second best back in this draft in my opinion. A huge need that was filled with this pick


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Erik (Iowa city, Iowa): Are the Bears going to try and turn Hester into Steve Smith?

rick spielman: (12:07 PM ET ) He can punt return but they have to decide whether he is a wr or db.


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Ryan (Rochester): We Bills fans are reeling. Can you please serve us up your take on their draft with a little sprinkle of sugar on top?

rick spielman: (12:09 PM ET ) They got great value for Ashton Youboty in the third and Ko Simpson in the fourth. That is about as sweet as I can make it


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Justin(Rochester,NY: Why would the eagles draft a dt when they had one last year and they have darwin walker,also whats up with them takin an ot when they have jon runyan and tra thomas

rick spielman: (12:11 PM ET ) I thought it was a great move. They traded away Hollis. You have to have a d-line wave in this league to win. KNow they have three young outstanding DT's to rotate


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Neal Joliet, IL: What's up Rick? I'm a Broncos fan. Convinve me that Jay Cutler isn't a Boller-Losman-type draft phenomenon that looks silly down the road. I want to be convinced that the Broncos have a "franchise" QB in the offing but I remain very skeptical

rick spielman: (12:13 PM ET ) Cutler will take some time to develop but Shannahan is the right coach to do that. He has a strong arm, good athlete and alot more qb savvy than Boller or Losman


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Chris (nashville TN): I have to tell you... im a Titans fan and im a little worried about Vince Young. What're your thoughts?

rick spielman: (12:16 PM ET ) Vinve Young will either be a great qb in this league or a bust. He has great physical talent but has to prove he can handle the mental part of the game. Eventually as you get older you have to rely on the mental more than the physical part of the game. I thought Leinart was a better fit for that reason


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john: why did the bears pass on 2 good wr jackson and moss there offense sucks lol

rick spielman: (12:19 PM ET ) I thought they would of jumped at the chance to get one of those receivers to had weapons to the offense. Manning is a solid pick but not as big of a need


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Jason (Dallas, TX): Part of what makes Reggie Bush special is his kick return abilities, but wouldn't this factor be negated in the NFL? If you make Reggie Bush the #1/#2 pick, he has to be your starting tailback and an NFL team is not going to let their starting tailback return kicks, right? Maybe this will provide some solace to grieving Texans fans!

rick spielman: (12:23 PM ET ) I think the Texans made a mistake by not taking Bush. You utlize Bush differently than a normal running back. He is not a 25/30 carry bell cow type back but if you utilize all his skills in different areas of the game he will get those touches. Not only is he the best runner in this draft, he is the best returner and after watching tape I'm no so sure he may have been the best wr. Players with this ability come few and far between and I don't believe you pass on them


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Nate (Madison): Packers had a good draft but passed on Chad Jackson, why? Is Hodge a starter this year (moving Barnett to the outside)?

rick spielman: (12:25 PM ET ) With the addition of Hawk and Hodge the Packers will have a great young LB corp along with Barnett. THey will get them lined up in the right places to utilize their strengths


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Mat (Scottsdale, AZ): Are there any potential impact players who didn't get drafted?

rick spielman: (12:25 PM ET ) Marcus Vick


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Randy, Troy NY: Can you explain why the NY football Giants selected a DE in the first round? Because last time I checked we had the two Pro Bowl starters from a year ago still on the roster. Is this an insurance policy to try to avoid last year's mess from reoccuring?

rick spielman: (12:28 PM ET ) It was an interesting pick especially since they also drafted Jasn Tuck from Notre Dame last year who is a pass rush specialist


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Evan (Ridgewood): Rick, Do you think the Broncos were the big winners of the weekend? Drafting for the future (Cutler) while acquiring a pro bowl WR for the present? Can't do much better, can you?

rick spielman: (12:29 PM ET ) The Broncos filled an immediate need by getting Walker and a future need by getting Cutler. I thought both where excellent moves


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Daniel (Barbourville, KY): Why in the world would the Eagles draft Bunkley in the first round when they sorely need to put talent around Donovan McNabb?

rick spielman: (12:30 PM ET ) Read my earlier comment


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jim (sf): What do you think of the raiders draft?

rick spielman: (12:31 PM ET ) I thought it was a B. They stuck to their philosophy of drafting speed. It has not always worked out in the past but Huff was a good pick and filled a huge hole in their secondary


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JR (Tampa): I think the Packers got a steal with Will Blackmon in round 4. He was pretty highly rated as a CB before switching to WR last season. Thoughts?

rick spielman: (12:35 PM ET ) He is an excellent athlete that can return punts but they have to decide what his best position is. Alot like Hester from Miami - What does he does best


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Paul (Augusta): Rick did the Falcons get the steal of the draft in Jimmy Williams? when was the last time you had two bookend corners playing together that were one the same college team?

rick spielman: (12:37 PM ET ) Jimmy Williams is an excellent athlete with great size. I have concerns about is effort at times watching him on tape and his ball skills down the field. I did not see him make many plays. He is better in press than off coverage. If you can get him to play to his full potential he could be a very good corner but that is a big if


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Brad (NM): What will the Saints do w/Deuce now?

rick spielman: (12:38 PM ET ) Line him up in the backfield and feed him the ball. Utilize all of Bush's talents around him


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Josh (Boston): I see a lot of experts rating the Pats' draft as a C+ or B-. Sure, they didn't address LB or CB, but I think Maroney and Jackson have a great chance at making New England's offense a big threat going forward.

rick spielman: (12:39 PM ET ) I thought those two picks were excellent. They filled needs on offense with the best players on their draft board. I am with you on those two picks


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dan (dubuque): Rick, what do you think about the Tarvaris Jackson pick by the Vikes? It seems to be a reach, but do you think he could legitimately be a solid NFL starting QB with a little coaching?


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:47 pm 
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Jimmy does need some work, but he's likely to get an on-field education as I'm sure the Falcons will utilize him early and often at the No. 4 CB spot, and then eventually push him into a nickel role.

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 5:00 pm 
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I've heard many people say that he will come in and take webster's spot from the beginning of the season.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5556262

under the Ready to Play section...

Anyways I wouldnt mind it even if he is learning while he plays because I have no confidence in any of our other CBs. Webster was a huge bust from day one in my opinion and even if Williams comes in and makes mistakes, its no worse then having Webster make em instead.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 6:27 pm 
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i see him starting at the nickel position. however the good news is he'll be on the #2 guy.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 2:57 pm 
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AtlGraff07 wrote:
I've heard many people say that he will come in and take webster's spot from the beginning of the season.


I hope so. And Webster can take his Che Guevara hat and go play for Castro.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 4:35 pm 
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I think it will take Williams at least 7-8 games to win the spot away from Webster...

J Webb isn't as bad of a corner as most people want to make him out to be...


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 5:09 pm 
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No people may be tough on Webster, including me. I just think with Hall helping Williams and the fact that they played together, hopefully he will adjust quickly. Although Webster is not as bad as some people make him out to be, he isn't as good as we all thought he would be when we got him. He seems to be injury prone and gets beat way too many times. I think he would be a really good #3 CB however.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 9:00 pm 
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I was never a fan of the signing of Webster mostly due to the $7 million signing bonus that we paid a guy that was only an average starter on his good days. But Webster has played well enough that I'm not calling for his head immediately, although I think we've all recognized as a position that needs to be upgraded in order for the defense to make the next step up.

But I don't see Williams stealing Webster's job right away. By the end of the year, we may see somehting different. If the coaching staff allow Webster to be more aggressive, I believe his play will improve. The problem is that Webster doesn't intercept many passes. PIcking off 5 or 6 passes per season usually can make you forget about the 10-20 times you got toasted. I mean it worked for DeAngelo Hall, who IMO did not live up to the reputation that he currently haves. Games like Seattle, Minnesota, New Orleans, New England, and Carolina stick in my mind a bit more than his performances vs. Tampa Bay, Philly, Buffalo, etc.

The fastest way for J-Will to get into the starting lineup early is to make plays early in the year. I suspect the Falcons want him to contribute right away but they won't force it, much like they handled Roddy last summer.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 10:06 am 
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something that's being missed here is the impact this pick may have on Hartwell. our nickel package was so bad last year team's used it against us to get Ed off the field.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 10:29 am 
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Well two areas I know JDub will help in is run support and blitzing. Considering he's prob about the biggest corner I can think of, and the way VT plays attack D, he should really help in these areas fairly soon. Things like coverage and scheme will obviously have a longer learning curve. I could see him starting before the seasons over.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 1:15 pm 
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A great point Teke. Hartwell is still going to see the bench on nickel downs because the package goes to a 4-2-5. Williams and Brook are still our primary nickel LBs. But you're right in that now with our nickel package stronger, teams won't be so willing to use multiple WRs just for the purpose of getting #50 off the field, which I think we saw teams particularly Seattle and Buffalo doing last year.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:16 pm 
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Milloy, Crocker, Abraham, and Williams make this defense rock solid. the only weakness i see right now is a run stuffer on the line. other than that this may be one of the stronger defenses personnel wise in the NFL.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:38 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
I mean it worked for DeAngelo Hall, who IMO did not live up to the reputation that he currently haves. Games like Seattle, Minnesota, New Orleans, New England, and Carolina stick in my mind a bit more than his performances vs. Tampa Bay, Philly, Buffalo, etc.



I didn't think D Hall had that bad of a game against Minn or Carolina....against NE it was Webster and our LB's that were made to look really stupid.

Against Carolina the first time Hall did better than just about every other CB that was put on Steve Smith. The only time he did something really dumb was when he went fo the pick and got there a spilt second to late. We wouldn't have even paid for that mistake if Scott had not of just closed his eyes and threw himself at Smith's feet.

The play where D Hall got burnt against Minnesota he was just doing what he was coached to do, bite on the first move when we blitz. He bit on the first move and our blitz didn't get to the QB, thus a TD.....


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 5:14 pm 
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I'm not heaping all the blame on Hall of course, but I don't think he did a lot of things to help the team in those games. Granted, in the Minnesota game the TD he gave up was at the end of the game and it didn't mean anything. But it just sticks out because he bit really hard on that play, which reminded me of a 5th round rookie rather than a 2nd-year former 1st round pick.

In the Pats game, none of our defense showed up that day for the most part. It's not Hall's fault that Brady had hours to throw the football. But at the same time, aside from his time in the pocket, Brady had no problems finding Givens, Branch, Graham, and Watson that day. No defensive player can be said to have played well that game, but if Hall deserves a pass then the other 10 players on defense do as well, and I'm not going to give it.

Those two games aside, still Darrell Jackson and Donte' Stallworth relatively owned D-Hall in those 2 games, two receivers that should not be doing so if Hall is capable of shutting down Owens, Galloway, and Lee Evans, etc.

Also note, that of his 8 career interceptions, only 1 came about when the QB didn't throw him the ball directly. His 2 as a rookie came on jump balls at the end of games. And his only impressive INT this past year came vs. the Bills when he jumped on a route with a busted up shoulder. The other ones were like the ones in the Lions game where there was a total miscommunication between WR and QB and it was practically like fielding a punt.

I love D-Hall don't get me wrong. I think he's only going to get better and better over the next 5 or so years. And I love his confidence and the reputation he has among players and coaches alike in the league. We've had this debate on these boards before, but it would be hard for me to place Hall in the top 10 cover men right now in the league. that could definitely change by this year's end, but based off his inconsistency last year, I'm not ready to tout him as in Champ Bailey or even Charles Woodson's class.

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 10:41 am 
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but it would be hard for me to place Hall in the top 10 cover men right now in the league

- I can't think of 10 better ones, can you?


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 12:08 pm 
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How about 20? I picked 20 players that some are better, some maybe worse, and some may be even with Hall. Now many of these guys are older veterans that I'll probably easily be able to kick off this list by season's end (e.g. Surtain, Tory James, Woodson), others are younger guys that have shown just as much ability thus far in their careers as Hall, but will be removed by season's end based on the fact that they may not be able to take it to the next level like I assume Hall will. I also put * by the names of the young QBs in Hall's "generation" that I believe are going to be the vanguard group of corners that over the next 2-3 years will take over for some of the older players on this list to become the elite corners around the league. Of course I expect anyone can argue to strike 5 or 10 or 15 of these names from their own personal lists, but these are basically 20 guys that I feel are bonafide No. 1 corners in the league, something Hall has proven he is but I don't think has played consistently well (yet) to say that he is head and heels above many of them.

Tory James, Bengals
Nate Clements, Bills
Champ Bailey, Broncos
Ronde Barber, Bucs
Patrick Surtain, Chiefs
Terrence Newman, Cowboys*
Sheldon Brown, Eagles*
Rashean Mathis, Jaguars*
Ty Law
Dre' Bly, Lions
Al Harris, Packers
Charles Woodson, Packers
Chris Gamble, Panthers*
Chris McAlister, Ravens
Samari Rolle, Ravens
Shawn Springs, Redskins
Mike McKenzie, Saints
Marcus Trufant, Seahawks*
Dunta Robinson, Texans*
Antoine Winfield, Vikings

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 3:15 pm 
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take Tory James' off that list and add Ken Lucas and I'd have a hard time arguing that Hall is heads and shoulders better than any of them at this point....but by the end of this season I expect him to be top 5-8


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 4:27 pm 
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I'm gonna come back to a median here and put it like this. It seems pep have seen him play and its pretty obvious he has a sick skill set. When he stepped up in game 1 against TO, it got the publicity ball rolling. NOw throw in Chad's comments and there you have it. So what I'm saying is skill wise he's in the top 5 to me, but I think you're looking at it from a proven commodity/production standpoint. While Hall might not have a thorough history like the others on your list, his flashes and upside lead people to placing him towards the top. I do however think that after this season, esp with a shored up D to provide pressure, there won't be any questions.


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 4:49 pm 
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GSUTeke wrote:
Milloy, Crocker, Abraham, and Williams make this defense rock solid. the only weakness i see right now is a run stuffer on the line. other than that this may be one of the stronger defenses personnel wise in the NFL.


Add Boley and Beck,...heard Mathis was progressing too.

Ed Hartwell may not play at all in 2nd and long, 3rd and long situations. And that's a good thing. Great stuff here guys,...it's enjoyable to read posts made by you guys here!


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 9:45 pm 
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widetrak21 wrote:
So what I'm saying is skill wise he's in the top 5 to me, but I think you're looking at it from a proven commodity/production standpoint.


You're right, that's where I'm looking at it from. In terms of pure athleticism to play the position, only players on that list that can touch Hall is Newman, Gamble, and Bailey. Throw in Pacman Jones, and that's probably your 5 top corners in terms of "skill set" and athletic potential.

I think among many other things, Hall's consistency will be a huge factor in the "resurrection" of the Falcons D this year.

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