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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Look the Falcons and/or the media can "spin" it however they choose. John Abraham wasn't a team guy, which was completely made up by Herm & Co. to justify not paying him and letting him walk. And the Jets have spent the past 7 years and 4 first round picks trying to replace him.

You're caught on the right/wrong of this issue and why the Falcons are choosing not to pay him. I personally don't care why. Because all that matters is that they aren't paying him. You've spent the last 14 months trying to justify why the team is letting him go and constructed this narrative, that I really could give two s**ts about.

Personally I think the reason why has more to do with Dunta Robinson than Brent or Miko Grimes. They're letting IMO the best corner that has played for this team in over a decade, and arguably since Deion, walk essentially over a situation they created by overspending on Dunta. But whether I'm ultimately proven right or wrong really doesn't matter in my opinion.

All I really care about is the Abraham situation doesn't happen to us. Unlike RobertAP, I believe CBs are highly valuable and potentially just as valuable as a pass rusher. All I know is that TD & Co. better find a corner this year or next year that IS worth the $50M we didn't pay Grimes.

And PS another reason why we don't see eye to eye is because you believe Grimes was "destined" to get hurt and TD had some sort of clairvoyance to predict that. Something he clearly doesn't possess otherwise he would've been a bit more tentative in paying Moore and Baker...

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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:31 pm 
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I just want to point out that Pudge is correct, I do not believe that we should be paying a CB 10 million a year, or anything relatively close to it. CB's don't win superbowls. If they did, the Eagles and Jets would be on top of the world right now. And how were the Raiders doing while they had Asomugha?

CBs, though important, are probably the 4th most important position on a defense. Defensive End, MLB, and Safety are all more important. The Falcons have problems at two of those positions. Signing a high-dollar CB shouldn't even be a consideration at this point in time.


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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:28 am 
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Look Grimes is probably pissed off like Pudge suggested.... Once you get mad about something, other things rub you the wrong way too. One thing can bring on other things.

I just believe Grimes is pissed he didn't get a big contract, and the more you think about it, the madder you get. Sure others have rehabbed somewhere else, but I wouldn't if I wanted to stay with the Falcons.

I didn't mean to say he's overrated; I mean now after his injury he's a risk. Sanders was great ..... Grimes has always had to over come his size; and had two very good years; in fact I think he was a favorite of mine, the smaller guy making the big plays.

The truth is my only thought is now I don't have a clue how much we should pay Grimes if we signed him. I'm just continuing to say that I think it started with the money, then as is often the case Grimes started having " other feelings " about the Franchise but it started with the money.

Grimes or the franchise could say something favorable about the other to try to heal
feelings if need be. Jeez you can get on the phone and make a personal call. It just seems neither cares enough to work with each other.

For the record I think a good Defensive end and a good corner back are about equal positions for success. Its just two people are really rarely equal.

We need both a corner back, and a defensive end. (or two)

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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:09 pm 
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I agree with more of what you said Cyril, and the rest I don't disagree with. Just bristled at the notion that "Grimes wasn't that good anyway" which is complete BS. Last year, when it was first reported the Falcons were going to let Grimes walk, I flew off at the handle. I'm not going to do that now. He is coming off a serious injury, and thus you have to be cautious with your money. He's definitely not worth $50 million now, but I still think he has some value to this team. The recoveries of other players that have had recent Achilles tears (e.g. Terrell Suggs, Demaryius Thomas, Leon Hall) makes me much more optimistic that Grimes can contribute in 2013 than I was back in September. And IMO, like I said if you can get 70-80% of the player that he was in 2010 and 2011, then he's still a major upgrade over what we currently have at RCB and what we've featured there in over the past decade since Ashley Ambrose departed.

If it were me, I'd try and get him locked up to a multi-year deal that doesn't commit a ton of money in Year 1, so that if he doesn't come back strong, then you can cut ties with him before the real $$ kicks in. But if he does come back strong, then he gets paid accordingly on the back-end of the deal.

I don't put much of any stock in the "Giant fiasco" as fun gus put it. But even if I did, and Grimes didn't exactly go 110% to get back in time for the Giants game, that doesn't really bother me. He had 2 options at that point: A) Rush back for the 2nd time and risk tearing up his knee for the 3rd time in 6 weeks or B) Skip the playoff game and get ready for free agency.

As I said, I don't blame Grimes for picking Option B because again, I don't ever get mad a player for thinking about himself as opposed to his team. The team doesn't really give a crap about him. I don't blame anybody for not wanting to jeopardize their potential to make $50 million. Fans are the only people involved in this business that have any loyalty. Do you think Arthur Blank really cares about you? He's about to shove PSLs down your throat.

Bnb said it's not always about the money. Sure, Steven Jackson took less money at the end of his career for a chance to win. Money wasn't his primary motivating factor but he's not making pennies. He's still making $3 million. If the Falcons or Packers had offered him $700,000 compared to the $7 million he was going to make in St. Louis, and say Tennessee or the Jets offered him $3.5 million, do you think he'd be a Falcon today? Maybe, but I would doubt it. It also helps when you're Steven Jackson and you've already made over $50 million playing football. Brent Grimes OTOH has made minimum salaries for 6 years, until last year.

My "narrative" is that this team paid Dunta $57 million. And they basically made a decision that on principle they don't want to have two $50 million corners. And basically Grimes got the short end of the stick because TD f**ked up by overpaying Dunta. And the player that actually earned that sort of compensation got screwed. I'm not going to sit here and say TD was an idiot for paying Dunta. As I said back in 2010, I believe he was overpaid, but the Falcons had such a dire situation at CB that they really had no other options besides waiting until the draft and try and get either Kareem Jackson or Kyle Wilson. Both Jackson & Wilson are better than Dunta, but neither have been great corners Jackson had a pretty good 2012 after a disastrous 2010, and Wilson is a good nickel back, but average starter. And if we had gotten either of them, it would have cost us Spoon.

RobertAP wrote:
CB's don't win superbowls. If they did, the Eagles and Jets would be on top of the world right now. And how were the Raiders doing while they had Asomugha?

I know it seems like I've been picking on you Rob for these past 2 or so months, but by golly that has to be one of the most inane statements that have ever been produced by your keyboard. If you're going to use that "logic" then no position wins Super Bowls. Even Tom Brady in all his greatness hasn't won a Super Bowl since he's been at a HOF level. Drew Brees has been outstanding in 6 years in NO, but the only time they've won a Super Bowl is when they had the league's best rushing attack and the most opportunistic defense.

As I told Emmitt in another post, the Jets have for years been a Top 10 defense with little to no pass rush, but a top corner. In a defense that is as aggressive as Mike Nolan, corners have significant value because you have to play man coverage when you blitz.

I'm not going to sit here and say I'd rather have Darrelle Revis than Von Miller or JPP. But it's real simple, the thing that correlates most to winning besides scoring on defense is passer rating. And if you have a corner like Grimes, who in 2011 had a 62.9 passer rating against, in a league where the average passer had a rating of 82.5, that is EXTREMELY VALUABLE. Put that sort of player opposite Asante Samuel (60.3) and McClain (70.2), that is highly valuable especially on a defense that doesn't have a pass rush.

And compared to Dunta Robinson, who has had passer ratings of 91, 93, and 102 over the past 3 years against him, even if Brent Grimes or any corner was just average in 80-85, that still would be valuable. That's basically what the Jets have had for the past 4 years and have been a team similar to the Falcons which can't sack a QB to save its life, but every year (even this year without Revis) have a Top 10 pass defense.

In a perfect world, you'd have a great pass rush. But as we know, picking as late as we do that's much harder to find. But even if it the Falcons were to draft Patrick Kerney this year, he's probably not going to be "Patrick Kerney" until 2015. And so what do you do in the meantime?

If you can get serious value from Grimes in 2013 and 2014 and he'll keep your defense treading water until 2015, then what is that worth? $5 million? $10 million? $15 million?

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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Pudge, I agree that a good CB helps the team. However, paying CB's top money is not the way to go. You have to balance your cap and put the money where it needs to be in order to give the team its best shot at the big game. Spending big on CBs does not do that.

In case you forget, I have been one of Grimes' biggest supporters over the years. I had hoped that we'd be able to sign him to a cap friendly deal. However, that isn't looking very good at this point in time. As such, I'm ok with letting him walk because I understand that it doesn't make sense to pay big money for CBs.

If you're going to invest significant cap space on the defensive side of the ball, it should be for players on the DL, or in the middle of the field. Investing significantly on CBs and OLBs is not the way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:48 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
Pudge, I agree that a good CB helps the team. However, paying CB's top money is not the way to go. You have to balance your cap and put the money where it needs to be in order to give the team its best shot at the big game. Spending big on CBs does not do that.

In case you forget, I have been one of Grimes' biggest supporters over the years. I had hoped that we'd be able to sign him to a cap friendly deal. However, that isn't looking very good at this point in time. As such, I'm ok with letting him walk because I understand that it doesn't make sense to pay big money for CBs.

If you're going to invest significant cap space on the defensive side of the ball, it should be for players on the DL, or in the middle of the field. Investing significantly on CBs and OLBs is not the way to go.

Again, I disagree. I think where you invest on defense is very fluid. You invest in the best players, period.

I wouldn't invest in a MLB unless he's a top level 3-down linebacker. Having a good MLB is important, but it's not critical. If you play in a blitz-heavy scheme and you have a Julian Peterson at SAM and a Spoon at WLB, then I could really care less about who my MLB is and how much he's paid.

If I have 2 good edge rushers, and my DTs are more pluggers that are supposed to keep blockers off my LBs than disruptors, then I'm not going to invest significantly in them because I don't have to invest as much in widebodys at DT than I do in pass rushers.

Take for instance a team like Denver. Von MIller is a MONSTER, who plays SAM in base and LDE in their nickel subpackage. Their base LDE is Derek Wolfe, who kicks inside to DT in nickel. Their starting base DTs were Justin Bannan and Kevin Vickerson. Vickerson is the more adept pass rusher between the two, and so he's re-signed so Bannan is allowed to walk and he's replaced with Terrance Knighton, another widebody NT type. Dumervil is their RDE, but because Miller is so good, he actually flushes a lot of pressure towards which pads his sack total. Their starting MLB was Joe Mays, but by year's end it was Keith Brooking. He came off the field on 3rd downs, as WLB Wesley Woodyard filled in. And since Miller was rushing, they plugged in D.J. Williams (who is now gone because he stunk) and ultimately Danny Trevathan. Both Woodyard and Trevathan were former safeties at Kentucky that have been converted in LBs and are ideal nickel inebackers. Champ Bailey and Chris Harris are their two starters. Harris doubles as their slot corner and Tony Carter is the nickel back that plays on the outside. Mike Adams replaced Quinton Carter at SS. Adams is an undersized cover safety that has also had extensive reps as a nickel corner in the past, and Rahim MOore is a cover guy at FS. Moore and Harris were both rookies in 2011.

Who then should the Broncos be investing in? According to you, they've wasted a bunch of money on a future HOFer in Champ Bailey, and Rahim MOore should be in line for a big extension come 2014 over Harris when their contracts are up. I'm assuming you make an exception for Miller because he doubles as a DE. But Woodyard & Trevathan aren't that valuable because they are OLBs that are nickel specialists? Because Miller is so good, you probably don't have to invest as much in the RDE as another team would, which is why the Broncos asked Dumervil to take a pay cut because you're not getting $12 million worth of value from him. YOu're getting that from Miller.

You can't sit here and make absolutes. RBs don't have a ton of value, unless you happen to be one of the 12-15 teams that don't have good QBs. Then a RB has a TON of value. A WR's value is only as much as the QB. Julio Jones' value is going to be different in Atlanta where he's the 3rd receiver and only gets 100 targets than he would be in Cleveland where he'd be the #1 guy and could potentially get 180 targets. But that value is probably undermined by the gap that exists between catching passes from Matt Ryan vs. Brandon Weeden. Greg Jennings is going to be more valuable to Minnesota because he is a potential #1 receiver that can also play in the slot, replacing Harvin than he would be in Miami where they already have a pretty good slot guy in Davone Bess. AJ Green is not as valuable in Cincy because Andy Dalton is not a good vertical passer, but he would be extremely valuable for Carolina because Cam Newton is a great vertical passer. But Carolina at least has Steve Smith to fall back on, where Cincy has nobody.

The point I'm trying to illustrate is that the Falcons don't have a good pass rush. ANd it's going to take several years to build up a good pass rush. And if you can bridge that gap with good cornerback play, then that has value. How much better does Seattle's secondary make Chris Clemons? Are the Seahawks in a few years going to lowball Richard Sherman because he plays a position that you deem to be less valuable than Bruce Irvin?

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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:26 pm 
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Maybe we had the Browns interest wrong, they just signed former Falcons cornerback...................... Chris Owens

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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:13 pm 
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I personally hope we do not sign Grimes. I have a lot of concerns about him, not the least of which is his attitude.

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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:30 am 
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Pudge wrote:
I don't put much of any stock in the "Giant fiasco" as fun gus put it. But even if I did, and Grimes didn't exactly go 110% to get back in time for the Giants game, that doesn't really bother me. He had 2 options at that point: A) Rush back for the 2nd time and risk tearing up his knee for the 3rd time in 6 weeks or B) Skip the playoff game and get ready for free agency.

As I said, I don't blame Grimes for picking Option B because again, I don't ever get mad a player for thinking about himself as opposed to his team. The team doesn't really give a crap about him. I don't blame anybody for not wanting to jeopardize their potential to make $50 million. Fans are the only people involved in this business that have any loyalty. Do you think Arthur Blank really cares about you? He's about to shove PSLs down your throat.

My "narrative" is that this team paid Dunta $57 million. And they basically made a decision that on principle they don't want to have two $50 million corners. And basically Grimes got the short end of the stick because TD f**ked up by overpaying Dunta.



so, even IF Grimes sat, you dont have a problem with that?! Well, I do. And~ Im pretty sure the rest of the 'team' does. And I damn sure ( if it's true) the FO and Coaches do.

Personally, If Grimes is mad because Dunta got 'paid' and he didn't, or if he sat himself ' then take your midget complaining a$$ somewhere else. Enjoy your last few years making $$ because you wont be going to the playoffs anytime soon. And, is that's just fine with Miko, it;s just fine with me!

Pudge I know how P.C. you are, and Im sorry for using the derogatory term 'midget'. I know they dont like to be called that. I think the proper term is 'little person'. :ninja:

But I call 'em 'kickables' :P

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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:56 am 
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fun gus wrote:
so, even IF Grimes sat, you dont have a problem with that?! Well, I do. And~ Im pretty sure the rest of the 'team' does. And I damn sure ( if it's true) the FO and Coaches do.

I'm sure the coaches and front office did, but I doubt most of his teammates did.

Your response is typical of a fan. I don't mean that as condescendingly as it sounds, but you have to understand that we are the only group that has a sense of loyalty.

Players understand the "business." Your second contract is where you make your money. Typically you come into the league at age 21-23. You get a rookie deal if drafted, or you play for minimum salaries if undrafted for four years until you hit unrestricted free agency between ages 26 and 27.

Athleticism for most players typically declines between ages 28 and 30. Those four and five-year deals that players get paid in free agency are backloaded, and typically structured so that it's going to be unfeasible to keep you with your declining skill at age 30 and 31 at that price tag. So you typically get cut, and then try to hang on for a few more years before teams deem you too old to really contribute.

And your career is over. Only a finite amount of guys go into television. Not many will get into coaching at the college or pro level (i.e. the levels that pay well). And so if a guy like Mike Peterson wants to get into coaching, the best avenue is going to be doing it at the high school. And I don't know what the average HS football coach makes, but I'm sure it's somewhere between $25K-$50K. That's no pennies for most Americans. Mike Peterson made $980,000 this past year. His last game check was $61,000, which is more than he'll probably make now in a year.

It's hard for many fans to relate to this because they don't make anywhere close to that money, but if/when you put yourself in players' shoes, IMO it's unreasonable to get mad at a player for thinking about his own money rather than the team.

If you knew it was inevitable that your annual salary was going to get cut 95% by the time you hit 30, then it's in your best interest to make as much $$$$ as possible in your twenties. And you might also hear the excuse of a fan saying, "They get paid all this money, it's on them to do a better job investing/saving it." True, but when you factor in that most of these guys playing football came from poverty and blue collar backgrounds, they are no more adept at doing those things than you are.

Look fun gus, if you want to be upset at Grimes for the possibility that he didn't sacrifice for the team, then fine. But don't act like I'm the unreasonable person. I think any reasonable person if in that same situation given the realities of NFL life, would have done exactly what Grimes allegedly did.

But in truth, when you examine the facts, the truth is that the Falcons had probably long made the decision well before January 2012 that they were prepared to move on from Grimes.

The Falcons played the Giants on January 8, and the PFW report came out on January 13. Well before the point in the offseason where teams typically make those types of decisions.

Here are the facts as we know them:

- On November 24, 2011, Brent Grimes plays 6 snaps before injuring his knee vs. the Vikings and leaves the game.
- On December 2, 2011, he has knee surgery on that knee and Mike Smith says he'll miss "a couple of weeks." Given Mike Smith's history with estimating recoveries/returns of players, whatever number he says, add 2-3 weeks for the "real" prognosis.
- On December 24, 2011, Grimes returns to the lineup vs. the Saints in a must-win game for the Falcons to have a shot at winning the division and getting home field. He plays well, breaking up 2 passes, but also blows 3 coverages and misses a tackle likely as an indicator that he was not 100%.
- He misses the following game in the season finale vs. TB.
- He is sat for the following week of practice, except he practices on Friday, January 6 before the January 8 game vs. Giants. Generally speaking as Mike Smith goes, if you are limited on Friday you will be listed as Questionable for that weekend's game. If you are full go in practice on Friday, you will be probable. If you do not practice Friday, you are going to be doubtful/out and probably won't play.
- Everybody in Falcons land went to bed Saturday night believing Grimes would play on Sunday given those circumstances. Then IIRC Adam Schefter breaks the news early Sunday around 11 AM that Grimes would be inactive.
- Five days following the Giants loss, we hear the report from Dan Parr of Pro Football Weekly that says "Our Falcons sources expect Brent Grimes to be playing for a different team next year...because he is likely to price himself out of the team's range."

That Falcons source was probably accurate on taking the general temperature of the team at that point in time. And that suggests that decision wasn't made in the 5 days following the Giants game due to something that happened that preceding weekend, it's likely this was something that had been the general feeling inside Flowery Branch for weeks if not months.

And if you're in Grimes' shoes, and you've busted your butt from a D2 UDFA to a Pro Bowler over 6 years and the Falcons have basically told you to kick rocks at that point, why are you going to go even further to sacrifice for them?

I'm not saying the Falcons are the villain. There really are no villains. This is just the reality of the NFL.

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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:40 am 
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Pudge wrote:
fun gus wrote:
so, even IF Grimes sat, you dont have a problem with that?! Well, I do. And~ Im pretty sure the rest of the 'team' does. And I damn sure ( if it's true) the FO and Coaches do.

I'm sure the coaches and front office did, but I doubt most of his teammates did..



Horsesh*t. Im pretty DAMN sure Tony Gonzales and Matt Ryan have a problem with it. And Mike Peterson, too. I doubt they would 'understand'. :snooty:

I get your point: but when you get to the playoffs, all best are off. You choose to sit, then GTFO.

We will see......

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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:02 pm 
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I think you're being naive fun gus. Because we're not talking about a healthy Brent Grimes. He had at best 50% odds of playing in that game. I think you could certainly argue that guys may not have been thrilled about it. But I doubt there's a single player in that locker room that said GTFO. Because NFL players understand better than anyone else, certainly moreso than fans like us, is at the end of the day, you have to take of yourself and your familiy. You have a responsibility to wives and children to do what is in their best interest. And if that means resting your knee and not risking having a second knee surgery in a 6 week span, and potentially jeopardize that. Those guys have worked with Brent Grimes every day for 3, 4, 5, or 6 years. They know the guy. They know how hard a worker he has been to get where he was. So they're not going to sit there and turn this one situation into a bigger deal than it is. They aren't going to sit there and say he isn't a team guy. Players are the least judgmental of all the groups (coaches, owners, fans) in the business. They may sit there and say, "Had I been in his shoes, I would've done it differently. But I'm not going to sit here and judge that guy negatively because he isn't me. He did what he felt was in the best interest of himself and his family..."

What's funny is that you of all people should probably have a different stance on this issue. Because the reason why Grimes didn't play against the Giants probably had everything to do with his unnecessary "sacrifice" to play 3 weeks coming off a knee surgery vs. the Saints. And given your proclivities and response to Smitty's decision to play Abraham & the starters this past year in the final game of the season, this should be another example of Mike Smith doing a poor job managing his injured players.

It's almost beat for beat the situation that you were complaining about a few months ago with putting guys at unnecessary risk in the season finale. And it's funny because Abe "sacrificed" for the team by playing in the playoffs, but guess what, he got shown the door too.

But it's all moot anyway, because Grimes wasn't cleared to play vs. New York, so it was never his decision.

8-)

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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:40 am 
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Pudge wrote:
I 8-)



personally, I cannot wait for my 'naiveness' to kick in. :lol:

oh, is this going to be good.... :beef:

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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:24 pm 
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1581 ... right-move

Atlanta Falcons: Why Letting Long-Time CB Brent Grimes Walk Is the Right Move

BY SCOTT CARASIK (FEATURED COLUMNIST) ON MARCH 27, 2013 3,247 reads 7
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Atlanta Falcons free agent cornerback Brent Grimes should be allowed to walk away from the team. He is not worth the money he wants, has a terrible Achilles injury to recover from and is easily replaceable through this year's draft.

In all honesty, Grimes just isn't going to be the player that he was before. So why should the Falcons pay him like a top-tier corner that he isn't going to be anymore? Why should they waste the money on someone who won't be worth it?

That's the problem that Grimes is also likely finding on the market. No one wants to give a guy that is recovering from an Achilles injury a long-term deal. No one wants to make this guy their franchise player at cornerback anymore. It's not exactly the best situation to get into.

Now, I'm not going to be all negative about Grimes. In 2010 and 2011, he was easily one of the top five corners in the entire NFL. Pro Football Focus metrics over those years support the assertion that he was a top five corner (subscription required).

My personal favorite metrics are coverage snaps per target, coverage snaps per reception, yards per coverage snap and passer rating allowed. The first three give an idea of how good a corner is during plays where the ball isn't thrown his way while passer rating allowed shows how good he is when it is thrown his way.

His breakdowns in these stats, including where he ranked within the NFL (in parentheses), are as follows:

Year Cover Snaps
Per Target Coverage Snaps
Per Reception Yards Per
Coverage Snap Passer Rating
Allowed Interceptions
2010 5.1 (62nd) 10.1 (35th) 1.11 (25th) 61.3 (5th) 5
2011 7.9 (6th) 17.8 (4th) 0.58 (1st) 62.9 (15th) 1
As you can see, he really improved his off-the-ball coverage in 2011, even from an already good 2010 season. The slight increase in passer rating he maintained isn't even an issue with how good of a corner he already was.

But will he ever be the same guy he was in 2011 despite the injury, or was he simply a one-year wonder?

My money would be on the latter.


If you were Arthur Blank, what would you offer Brent Grimes?
Stephen Brashear/Getty Images


Brent Grimes simply wants too much money for his age and his talent-level.

Last season, Cortland Finnegan made $10 million a year in the first year of a a five-year deal, and Grimes would likely want something similar to this.

At 30 years old, though, is the player worth the contract? If you get the Grimes of 2011 for all five years, then yes, he would be.

Based on this situation, what kind of contract would you offer Brent Grimes?
3-4 years at $10 million per year
2-3 years at $7 million per year
1 year at $2.5 million
1 year deal with an option for multiple years to kick in after it.
Submit Vote vote to see results
You likely won't get that, though. Cornerbacks regress quickly once they hit the 31 and 32 years of age. There are always exceptions like Charles Woodson, Rod Woodson and even Deion Sanders, but for the most part, most older corners aren't worth the contracts that they receive.

If Grimes does come back to the Falcons, it will have to be for a deal that is worthy of what his projected talent will be. Free agent deals aren't about what a player has done for the team. Instead, they are about what the player will do for the team in the future.

The deal that he would have to take would either be one year for about 3 million, or even a deal similar to what Terrell Thomas got with the Giants, when he signed a one-year contract with the team in February worth a maximum of $1.2 million (h/t New Jersey.com). Thomas' contract is essentially a one-year, guaranteed prove-it deal that can trigger into a multi-year, market value deal for a top corner.

If it were up to me, Grimes would receive a similar "take it or leave it" offer. He must prove that he is worth the money, or he can go. It's unlikely that he would accept that kind of deal, though, so the team should let him walk due to the money he is commanding not being worth the talent he possess at this point in time.




Chris Graythen/Getty Images
What are the true risks behind his Achilles injury? Are they worth it?

For this, I asked Bleacher Report Injuries Featured Columnist Dave Siebert a couple of questions. He's receiving his M.D. in June from the University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine, so if anyone knows about injuries, it's him. I asked him the following questions in relation to Brent Grimes' injury:

Grimes was slated with a "torn" Achilles, according to ESPN. What exactly is the difference between a torn Achilles, ruptured Achilles, and sprained/strained Achilles?

The Achilles tendon attaches the calf muscles to the back of the heel. Flexing the calf muscles pulls up on the Achilles tendon, and therefore the back of the heel, resulting in pointing of the toes. In other words, when a player jumps, he is using his calves to help push off from the ground.

Achilles injuries occur when an outside force suddenly lengthens the tendon while it is pulling on the heel—a tackle bending pointed toes backward, for example. When that occurs, the tight, contracting tendon is forcefully over-stretched or torn. Such an injury is known as a strain.

The words "strain," "tear" and "rupture" all represent different ways to describe similar injuries. Grade-one tendon strains are tendon over-stretches without any tear, while grade-two and grade-three strains imply partial and complete tendon tears, respectively. A grade-three strain is also sometimes called a rupture.


Grimes doing Rehab on 3/26
So it's safe to say that Grimes had at least a stage-two Achilles injury. These aren't exactly easy to recover from, nor are they fun to watch a player incur. If Grimes can fully recover from what was either a full tear ("rupture") or a partial tear, he could be worth bringing back.

He would have to prove that he is completely, 100 percent recovered, though. The expected recovery time would have him ready for the start of the season, but it is questionable to believe that he can have the same type of impact that he did in 2011.

Because his game relies on his speed and jumping ability, Grimes could really be hurting in 2013, unless he has a proper recovery. Even then, who knows what the full effect of the injury would be?



With a player who relies almost entirely on his jumping ability and speed, how do you feel the Achilles will be affecting his game?

Achilles tendons—like ligaments and cartilage—have relatively poor blood flow, limiting their self-healing ability. To make matters worse, the most frequent location of Achilles tears also happens to be the part of the tendon with the least blood flow. That is likely why Grimes required surgical repair of the injury—his tendon needed assistance in order to heal properly. It is actually possible that his tendon would have never healed without intervention.
Unfortunately, tendons are never quite the same after strains, and Grimes will also be at higher risk of re-injury from this point forward. That said, the Achilles is the strongest tendon in the human body. What's more, a player's jumping ability is determined by the muscle bulk within the quads and calves, not the tendons themselves. The tendon only needs to be able to match the pull placed on it by the muscle.
This is quite interesting. According to Siebert, Grimes should still be able to jump and run and have the same kind of speed, as long as he can strengthen his Achilles back to where it was previously. It shouldn't be hard for someone who works as hard as he does to get to that same level.

However, the re-injury risk is too great to give him a high-value contract. As seen with Shawne Merriman in Buffalo, if the player doesn't ever fully heal, he will never be the same kind of player that he was previously. Merriman was forced to retire at the ripe age of 28, and Grimes is actually a full two years older.

That risk will be one that could be worth taking if he takes the right kind of deal, though. But why give Grimes special treatment and a deal that could bust the salary cap situation when the Falcons could just use a draft pick on another cornerback this year, especially since Grimes is already losing some athleticism?



Do you see this as a detrimental injury for Grimes—who at 30 years old when the season starts is already starting to lose some athleticism? Could this essentially end his career as a potential starter?

How long the 30 year-old Grimes was going to remain a starting-caliber player prior to the injury is another story, but the injury itself should only have minimal downstream effects on his career. Assuming no complications such as nerve injury arose during or after surgery, proper treatment, rest and physical therapy should get him back into football shape without much difficulty.


More Grimes rehab from 3/26
So as it sits, it looks like Grimes will not be getting completely hurt by this injury from a physical standpoint. However, he does need to make sure he rehabs it correctly. If he doesn't, then the re-injury risk gets that much worse. Is this really something as a GM that Thomas Dimitroff should be forced to worry about?

I don't think so. He should be worried about putting together the best talent for the money that he has available. He should be worried about getting together the best group of guys on and off the field. If injuries are a worry with the player and his contract demands don't agree with the injury, he should walk.

In Grimes' case, that's what should take place. His demands and injury questions don't agree with his actual value on the field. The Falcons would be wise to let him leave the team and then select his replacement in the draft.




Could Desmond Trufant be the Falcons new starting corner?
Otto Greule Jr/Getty Images
This year's draft has amazing depth at corner.

Unlike last year's draft, this year has a ton of great athletes at cornerback. While last year's draft saw just five cornerbacks taken in the first two rounds, this year could easily have eight or nine taken in the first two rounds. This would include a few of my personal favorites in David Amerson, Desmond Trufant and Darius Slay.

Who would you draft to be Brent Grimes replacement?
Dee Milliner, Alabama
Xavier Rhodes, Florida State
Desmond Trufant, Washington
David Amerson, NC State
Darius Slay, Mississippi State
Johnthan Banks, Mississippi State
Submit Vote vote to see results
It all just depends on the kind of corner that Atlanta would want. If they want someone who can be the exact clone of Brent Grimes, they could easily find him. They could also find someone who is closer to being the lock-down corner that Darrelle Revis is. It's just what they want.

But with at least a dozen corners with high grades in the top two rounds, the Falcons could get someone who is able to start immediately within the first three rounds. Why bring back Grimes for over $5 million per season on a four-year deal when they could have someone on the roster for less than $3 million per season for that same period of time?

Why bring back Grimes when the talent in the draft is comparable to what you would expect him to be after his injury? Just let him walk and take the players who are equal to him now but still have the ability to improve in the future.




Grimes hasn't played but 13 games for the Falcons over the past two seasons.
Jim McIsaac/Getty Images
There will be no sacred cows.

Going back to the 2011 NFL playoff game where the Falcons lost to the New York Giants, owner Arthur Blank was quoted as saying that the Falcons would have no sacred cows in the offseason. No one was safe from being cut or allowed to walk.

Allowing Brent Grimes to walk would be considered the ultimate sacred cow of them all, as such a move would allow the former "franchise" player to leave.

There will be no sacred cows, but Grimes should join Curtis Lofton from last offseason as a sacrificial one.



All stats used are either from Pro Football Focus's Premium Stats, ESPN, CFBStats or the NFL. All contract information is courtesy Spotrac and Rotoworld. All recruiting rankings come from 247Sports.com.

Scott Carasik is a Featured Columnist for Bleacher Report. He covers the Atlanta Falcons, NFL and NFL Draft. He also runs the NFL Draft Website ScarDraft.com and hosts Kvetching Draftniks Radio.

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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
There will be no sacred cows.

Going back to the 2011 NFL playoff game where the Falcons lost to the New York Giants, owner Arthur Blank was quoted as saying that the Falcons would have no sacred cows in the offseason. No one was safe from being cut or allowed to walk.

Allowing Brent Grimes to walk would be considered the ultimate sacred cow of them all, as such a move would allow the former "franchise" player to leave.

There will be no sacred cows, but Grimes should join Curtis Lofton from last offseason as a sacrificial one..


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 Post subject: Re: out of the dog house, into the dog pound!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:59 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:
There will be no sacred cows.

Going back to the 2011 NFL playoff game where the Falcons lost to the New York Giants, owner Arthur Blank was quoted as saying that the Falcons would have no sacred cows in the offseason. No one was safe from being cut or allowed to walk.

Allowing Brent Grimes to walk would be considered the ultimate sacred cow of them all, as such a move would allow the former "franchise" player to leave.

There will be no sacred cows, but Grimes should join Curtis Lofton from last offseason as a sacrificial one..


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Image

Well played sir. :clap:

All Breakfast Club references are gold in my book! :lol:

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