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 Post subject: D Davis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:57 pm 
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Yeah he threw a TD, but he hasn't looked good, holding the ball way, way to long. Hope to see some improvement next couple of weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:05 am 
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I wasn't terribly excited about Davis being the Falcons primary backup. At his best he was a pre-season/practice squad rock star. Not a legit backup.

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:45 am 
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Only QBs on the market are Tyler Thigpen, Byron Leftwich, Matt Lienart, and Trent Edwards :( .

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:55 am 
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The Mattural wrote:
Only QBs on the market are Tyler Thigpen, Byron Leftwich, Matt Lienart, and Trent Edwards :( .



back in April, I was touting Tebow as a possible third 'miracle' QB...To which most laughed. In fact, it was 'common knowledge' that Tebow was being 'blackballed' by the franchises, and was as good as 'gone' from the NFL :roll:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18257

still sound crazy? This franchise was one that could have easily weathered the 'carnival' that accompanies St Timmy. Now, he is a Patriot. Pudge is convinced he is going to be cut before the regular season starts. http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/ ... story.html

It's 'too late' now. But, what 'could' have been.

The fact is, none of the QB's mentioned above, nor DD or the other two J.A.G.'s we picked up are going to help if Ryan goes down. If TD had made a move to get Tebow on the cheap ( could have been done without impacting the cap much) before camp started, he would have had ALOT more people at Flowery Branch to watch, and would have resulted in greater preseason ticket sales.


http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/08/tim-teb ... nfl-games/

Anyone pumped up to see more of Double D and the Sean and Seth Show this preseason? :roll:

Another thing: If Ryan gets injured, it is most assuredly because of our sh*tty OL. NOw, who thinks any of the clowns I mentioned above are going to be as durable as Tim Tebow behind that same line? Anyone? Bueller?

Furthermore, be honest: if Ryan goes down were going to fail, if were going to fail anyways, don't you want to be 'entertained'? I mean where are you going to get a 3rd string QB for a couple 7th rounders OR some small cash, that has started and playoff win experience? If Tebow doesn't play much this season, guess how much he costs?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... t/2416145/

So the downside was too much 'media'? This was gift wrapped for Blank. Get Tebow and Brian Banks, and ride on the wave of 'second chances'. Especially right now with his stadium fiasco going on..It's not going to negatively affect your team if Banks is on the ps and Tebow is riding the pine all year. But, in the horrific occasion we lose Ryan, then the only downside is we lose, but at least get entertained by it. And if DD or Tebow actually DO something, then that is just gravy.

Fact is, TD made a mistake by not grabbing Tebow on the cheap when he had the chance..He blew it :snooty:

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Tebow? Really? Tebow?

It's like Allan Iverson talking about practice. Where talking about Tebow man; I mean come on... Tebow!

On no planet do you ever consider Tim Tebow as a back up quarterback for a team that has an offense that sets up the vertical passing game like the Falcons. For Tim Tebow to actually work on the Falcons he would need to be able to through a proper spiral more than 10' and not some wounded duck that flops around when it reaches its destination.

You thought Joey Harrington had a wounded duck for a deep pass Tebow is no better. The only bonus Tebow brings is that he can scramble away from broken pass blocking. That cat can't consistently pass the ball to save his life. He can't even come close to Matt Ryan's timing and range.

If Tebow comes out and says he wants to be a Tight End and has given up on QB then you might consider it. But even Dom Davis giving up 5 INT's doesn't justify bringing Tebow in.

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:22 pm 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
Tebow? Really? Tebow?

It's like Allan Iverson talking about practice. Where talking about Tebow man; I mean come on... Tebow!

On no planet do you ever consider Tim Tebow as a back up quarterback for a team that has an offense that sets up the vertical passing game like the Falcons. For Tim Tebow to actually work on the Falcons he would need to be able to through a proper spiral more than 10' and not some wounded duck that flops around when it reaches its destination.

You thought Joey Harrington had a wounded duck for a deep pass Tebow is no better. The only bonus Tebow brings is that he can scramble away from broken pass blocking. That cat can't consistently pass the ball to save his life. He can't even come close to Matt Ryan's timing and range.

If Tebow comes out and says he wants to be a Tight End and has given up on QB then you might consider it. But even Dom Davis giving up 5 INT's doesn't justify bringing Tebow in.



did you miss my point? Let me see if I have this straight: do you think Dom Davis is going to win us games if Ryan goes down? If we lose Ryan, were f****. It wouldn't matter if Micheal J Fox was behind center, behind this OL. My point is/was: if that happens wouldn't you rather watch Tebow getting his d*ck knocked in the dirt over Byron Leftwich or Tyler Thigpen? Or the Sean and Seth show? C'mon BE HONEST.

Plus, maybe Tebow can actually DO something that the Sean and Seth show cannot: he can run the read option on the scout team: and he could do it better then S and S, all the old has been QB's on the scrapheap, and even Dom Davis. That's just a fact. That is one of the principal reasons that idiot Belichik grabbed the guy, and why he probably wont be cut by the end of camp. I could be wrong, but Im not expecting Tebow to do anything except ride the pine, run the scout team and occasionally play teams, and every rare now and then line up as a TE. He's just not doing that for us :x

Look, I know it ain't gonna happen. But TD whiffed on that one.

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:18 pm 
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:lol:

viewtopic.php?p=115898#p115898

Davis is the same player he was last year. This is what I've been talking about for the past 12 months. He's not very accurate, and he doesn't have good mechanics/footwork to overcome it. He's still a 1-read QB (which is to be expected given his youth and inexperience).

Pudge in January 2013 wrote:
Whether the Falcons choose to retain McCown or move in another direction, the key is that they bring in some arms that can bolster competition in camp. Whoever fills the backup spot in 2013 should be in for an open, intense competition, and settling for retaining an average McCown and green Davis won’t be enough to provide that.



As for Tebow fun gus, it's just comical. Your blind affinity for Tebow completely masks you to the fact that Tebow wouldn't be more fun than Leftwich. He is a TERRIBLE fit in Atlanta, just like Leftwich would be. They are the same. But in your reality, being terrible but with the circus of TEBOWMANIA surrounding things is "fun." Ask the New York Jets how "fun" that was in 2012?

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:50 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
:lol:

viewtopic.php?p=115898#p115898

Davis is the same player he was last year. This is what I've been talking about for the past 12 months. He's not very accurate, and he doesn't have good mechanics/footwork to overcome it. He's still a 1-read QB (which is to be expected given his youth and inexperience).

Pudge in January 2013 wrote:
Whether the Falcons choose to retain McCown or move in another direction, the key is that they bring in some arms that can bolster competition in camp. Whoever fills the backup spot in 2013 should be in for an open, intense competition, and settling for retaining an average McCown and green Davis won’t be enough to provide that.



As for Tebow fun gus, it's just comical. Your blind affinity for Tebow completely masks you to the fact that Tebow wouldn't be more fun than Leftwich. He is a TERRIBLE fit in Atlanta, just like Leftwich would be. They are the same. But in your reality, being terrible but with the circus of TEBOWMANIA surrounding things is "fun." Ask the New York Jets how "fun" that was in 2012?

first, I know it's not ever going to happen...

But where is the inconsistency, Pudge? In the thread you noted: I suggested rather then getting a Sean or Seth, to go get a guy who 'could' play QB if your down to your 3rd string QB, but could also line up and play teams or TE once in awhile..This was before I even suggested Tim Tebow for the role, but you must admit, he fits the bill perfectly.

Pudge, do you really think:be honest: do you think the Sean and Seth show as our #3 QB is a better idea then Tim Tebow? Not Byron Oldwitch, or Tyler Pigpen, I am saying straight up: do you think Tebow>the S and S combo? And just speaking purely from a football standpoint, no 'media' bs. If Tebow wasn't 'Tebow, but still had the same talents and experience, would you not choose him over the other option. I would. So the 'dealbreaker' is he brings the 'media carnival'. Well, Im of the opinion our team ( much like possibly two others ) could have handled it.

The Pats seem to think Tebow can be helpful in running the scout team. Do you disagree?


http://www.gloucestertimes.com/sports/x ... -preseason

the guy probably wont even get alot of playing time tonight, but I'll make a wager with you. I wiould bet that there will be some extra folks that will bother to go to the playoffs that normally would not have, just to see what all the fuss is about. Im sure back in Gillette Stadium, there will be more buts in the seats..One of my points was that were alot closer to Jacksonville then Boston: and I am certain we would have had a more exciting preseason with Tebow here. I gay ron tee it.


Pudge, you've praised St Timmy before. And I have explained that I have reasons to dislike the guy ( UGA wife, UC brother, not particularly evangelical ). So dont get me wrong, Im not nutswingin'. But if Ryan goes down, I would rather have the narrative of 'can St Timmy beat out 'Nique and save the season!?' over 'ugh, were stuck with Dom Davis and some J.A.G. who is so old, his Social Security # is TWO'.

I dont think it's fair to use the 'JETS' as a reason to slam Tebow. He did not have a say in the matter. Right? I;ve seen reports that Tebow says he wants to be a QB, but he will do whatever it takes to win, and would do anything Josh McDaniels tells him to. He is not being a lil b8tch.

I feel creepy defending the guy, but it just seems like people ( not you, Pudge ) just hate the guy for things they should not hate him for. All the dude does is prove people wrong again and again. Maybe he gets cut in a few weeks. But: if he doesn't, then he will have proved alot of people ( like you, Pudge :wink: ) wrong...again :mrgreen:


(now watch him get injured tonight and make me look like more of an a$$ )


http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/i ... d-patriots

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:25 am 
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From a "pure football" standpoint in a vacuum, then maybe Tebow would be better than Sean Renfree or Seth Doege as the No. 3.

But from a "pure football" standpoint in Atlanta, he would not be. And this is the point I keep trying to hammer home. You keep looking at Tebow in a vacuum, and assuming that what he did in 2011 in Denver is easily repeatable, and the point I've continued to try and make for months is that is it not.

Denver completely revamped their offensive philosophy to suit Tebow, by playing uber conservative. The same conditions don't apply in Atlanta. I really don't think you're facing the idea that the Falcons locker room would NOT embrace Tebow to the same degree that the Broncos did (or the Patriots are trying to do). Tebow replaced Kyle Orton in Denver. Willis McGahee and Von Miller bought in because they had little to no belief in Orton. If put in the same situation in Atlanta, do you honestly think Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez, and Osi Umenyiora are going to buy into Tebow the same way they buy into Matt Ryan?

And that's before the media gets into it, which can't simply dismiss. Because IMO if Tebow was forced into the Falcons lineup for an extended period, it would be a huge media storm. If you fail with Tebow, it's not like failing with Troy Smith, Dominique Davis, Byron Leftwich, or Curtis Painter. It's a million times huger than that. It's just not worth having that extra scrutiny.

You say things along the lines of, "Well, it at least put butts in the seat." But that's such amateur thinking. Good owners don't think about what sort of spectacle that they can make to draw a few more eyeballs. "Come one, come all, and see the spectacular Tim Tebow!" It just smacks of the same organization that we were in 2007, where we were a laughing stock.

I think the difference between us is that you feel that if Tebow is in Atlanta, it would have the potential to become the Broncos, while I feel that it more than likely goes the route of the Jets.

Tebow as a TE is about as valuable as having Tim Biere on the roster. You honestly think Tebow, who has never blocked or ran a route tree is going to be a better TE than a ffith string undrafted free agent? That "extra" value you keep talking about him having is WORTHLESS!

When you look over the past few seasons and see athletic QBs that struggle to complete passes, but somehow manage to throw more TDs than INTS, you basically have 4 players: Tebow, Troy Smith, Tyler Thigpen, and Jake Locker.

It should be noted that Troy Smith and Thigpen are both unemployed currently. Why not give them a call? They can do the same things on the football field as Tebow (if not more) and you don't have to deal with all the media BS that is sure to come.

No one is going to ask Matt Ryan about playing with Troy Smith. No one is going to ask Roddy White what it's like to catch passes from Tyler Thigpen. No one is going to ask Thomas DeCoud his stance on abortion because of them.

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:19 am 
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Well, I guess we can agree to disagree here. But, for the sake of argument, I will try to respond in kind..

"From a "pure football" standpoint in a vacuum, then maybe Tebow would be better than Sean Renfree or Seth Doege as the No. 3.

But from a "pure football" standpoint in Atlanta, he would not be. And this is the point I keep trying to hammer home. You keep looking at Tebow in a vacuum, and assuming that what he did in 2011 in Denver is easily repeatable, and the point I've continued to try and make for months is that is it not."

If Ryan goes down, it doesn't really matter if were in a vacuum or not, because we are going to 'suck' either way. I would just rather be entertained at that point.

I never said Tebow could 'repeat' his miracle season. In fact here's what I expect from Tebow " I could be wrong, but Im not expecting Tebow to do anything except ride the pine, run the scout team and occasionally play teams, and every rare now and then line up as a TE."

"You honestly think Tebow, who has never blocked or ran a route tree is going to be a better TE than a ffith string undrafted free agent?"

Is Tim Biere going to command attention, and sell tickets? Nope.
Can Tim Biere do this?
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/ ... story.html

"You say things along the lines of, "Well, it at least put butts in the seat." But that's such amateur thinking. Good owners don't think about what sort of spectacle that they can make to draw a few more eyeballs. "Come one, come all, and see the spectacular Tim Tebow!"

I guess Robert Kraft is a 'bad owner', and Belichik is an idiot. :roll:

"It should be noted that Troy Smith and Thigpen are both unemployed currently. Why not give them a call? They can do the same things on the football field as Tebow (if not more) and you don't have to deal with all the media BS that is sure to come."

Let me know when either of those clowns won a NCAA championship, Heissman and won a playoff game against the Steelers in thier own house. Nobody is driving 600 miles to see Troy Smith.

"If put in the same situation in Atlanta, do you honestly think Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez, and Osi Umenyiora are going to buy into Tebow the same way they buy into Matt Ryan?"

So, they are going to buy into Thigpen MORE then Tebow? I dont believe that is the case.


"No one is going to ask Matt Ryan about playing with Troy Smith. No one is going to ask Roddy White what it's like to catch passes from Tyler Thigpen. No one is going to ask Thomas DeCoud his stance on abortion because of them."

And, if were down to those guys, it really doesn't matter. I'd rather HAVE the media circus at that point.

:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:44 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
I guess Robert Kraft is a 'bad owner', and Belichik is an idiot. :roll:

New England is a lot different than Atlanta....

1) New England has the potential offense that can handle Tebow as a starter i.e. one that can run the football a lot given their lack of polished WR targets and the fact that they have a workhorse RB in the prime of his career, a 2-TE system, and probably a Top 5 run-blocking OL. NONE OF THOSE THINGS EXIST IN ATLANTA.
2) Belichick has a firm grip on media access. Mike Smith and the other 30 NFL coaches do not. Belichick is the only coach in the league that spends hours telling his players exactly what should and should not be said to the media. It's a completely different environment, one that insulates Tebow from the media. THAT DOES NOT EXIST IN ATLANTA.

I don't think Belichick is an idiot, but I think in the case of signing Tebow, it's much more ego-driven than what is in the best interest of the team. I think his thought-process is either driven by, "I want to be known as the guy that fixes Tebow," or his thoughts are clouded in the same way that had him draft Chad Jackson in 2006 based entirely off a Urban Meyer recommendation as opposed to his own scouting department that didn't want Jackson (this is highlighted in Michael Holley's War Room book). I think this might be Meyer at it again.

fun gus wrote:
So, they are going to buy into Thigpen MORE then Tebow? I dont believe that is the case.

No, they aren't going to buy into either one. The point being that makes them a wash.

fun gus wrote:
Is Tim Biere going to command attention, and sell tickets? Nope.
Can Tim Biere do this?
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/ ... story.html
...Nobody is driving 600 miles to see Troy Smith...I'd rather HAVE the media circus at that point.

And how did that work out for the New York Jets?

fun gus wrote:
And, if were down to those guys, it really doesn't matter.

It does matter. The Falcons are trying to win a Super Bowl in their very limited window. And signing a player for the express purpose of creating a media circus doesn't help them. Tebow is a distraction, and the only place he won't be is in New England.

fun gus wrote:
I could be wrong, but Im not expecting Tebow to do anything except ride the pine, run the scout team and occasionally play teams, and every rare now and then line up as a TE."

What you've just described is a practice squad-caliber player. And that adds minimal value to this roster/team and their chances of winning a title. And the upside of that player versus the downside of the media circus don't balance out.

You keep saying that Tebow is going to put butts in the seats as if that's a positive thing. And it's frankly not really backed up by any real evidence that ticket sales go up due to Tebow's presence.

Last year the Jets attendance did go up, by an average of 102 people per home game, or roughly 0.12%. That after seeing 0.38% growth from 2010 to 2011, and 2% growth from 2009 to 2010, following their first trip to the AFC Championship, or the 1.74% spike they saw from 2007 to 2008 when they picked up Favre.

Look at the home attendance averages (per ESPN) for the Broncos over the past 7 years:

1. 2012-Peyton Manning (76,632)
2. 2007-Jay Cutler (76,611)
3. 2006-Jake Plummer/Jay Cutler (76,347)
4. 2008-Jay Cutler (75,509)
5. 2011-Kyle Orton/Tim Tebow (75,327)
6. 2009-Kyle Orton (75,116)
7. 2010-Kyle Orton (74,908)

Yep, Tebow put more butts in the seat than Kyle Orton, but not as many as Cutler or Manning.

Interesting to note that the 2011 Broncos also had the 2nd worst road attendance in the league, drawing less eyes than Arizona and Buffalo:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/yea ... rt/awayPct

It would seem that fans tend to appreciate winning and good QB play more than Tebowmania.

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:28 pm 
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This is the last I will say on this subject: and I do 'get' your argument. I dont wana keep going down the rabbit hole :wink:

We are both making 'assumptions'.

If I read you correctly, Pudge, your 'assumption' is that this franchise, at this time, would be better off with some no-name 3rd string not-even J.A.G. then Tebow because of the following:

our offense is not 'set up' to maximize the talents Tebow does posses
the resulting 'carnival' is not 'worth it', meaning you would rather lose with J.A.G.
Tebow cannot play any other position of worth in the NFL ( TE, ST, Etc) and would not be a benefit
Tebow couldn't sell in the Rocky Mountains, NYC and now the New England area.


I respectfully disagree.

On point #1: this is your 'best' argument.
Point 2: disagree. After 2007, Petrino, and the parade of losers, I honestly dont think if we GET to the point that Tim Tebow is taking snaps, it matters. If were going down in flames, I want that sh*t talked about incessantly and media crews outside the Ga Dome. Blank and TD might figure out it would be worth it to invest in grooming a backup instead of going through guys like JPW or DJ Shockley, who were brought in alot more because of proximity, instead of talent...*
3: again, everytime they say this guy 'can't do something, he does it. I think if he fails as the Falcons QB, he fails. But I do not think Kraft and Belichik are doing this to 'prove' something. I could be wrong, I havent consulted the War Room Gideon lately :P
4: total fail. please. Pudge: it's a 375 day journey from Gainesville to Denver, while riding on a dinosaur with Jesus. it takes half that to get to New England. GATOR NATION, 5 hours away: celebrated Heismann hero. You simply do not understand this, because your not 'here' ( no disrespect ). To even think Tebow in OUR preseason doesn't sell insanely more tix is kind of unreasonable. Are you sh*tting me? The mullets and promisekeepers would be out IN FORCE. That old hippee with the ponytail that stands outside the Dome every week with the 'Repent' sign? Tebow come in here and that guy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4

BTW, Boston and the ATL? They are ALOT alike. I could go into detail, but I will not. And TD is off the 'Chik Tree'.

I look at this as a 'beaten wife' type syndrome. After #7, we decided to play it safe. We hired a 'safe' guy, hired a safe QB, nice coach. TD might have been aggressive getting Julio ( if he can stay healthy ) but otherwise where has he/scouting dept/Smitty developed anything like Matt Schaub? If they decide to 'gamble' ,because that what this season is: a gamble, I don't see having the S and S show as our 3rd as the 'best' option. I guess I would rather go out with a roar then a whimper.

*JPW AND Shockley were here only to sell preseason tickets. Period. Tebow would have eclipsed this. Juss Sayin' :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:21 pm 
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I'm just going to throw in my $.02 on backup QB situation... I believe that the Falcons would be best suited to bring in someone like Joey Heisman or someone with a similar skill set, who might be successful in a WCO offense. Let's face it... The Falcons are probably going to use screens/short passes to augment their run game, and a quick passing scheme to cover the weaknesses on the OL. I don't think that Davis is the best for that. Nor do I think that Tebow is a good fit for that. I would be on the lookout for someone who can get rid of the ball quickly. Joey Harrington comes to mind because he was an ideal WCO QB. Joey's MAJOR issue was arm strength. He had a weak arm, and absolutely no confidence in his deep ball. And again, that's fine because the majority of our game plan will be dink and dunk passes.

Look, I'm not saying that we should go out and get Harrington right now. I'm saying that he'd be a better fit than Davis or Tebow. There are probably many options out there that would be a better fit for our scheme.

Lastly, I'll restate what I said earlier this year... If Matt's going down for a significant amount of time, it's not going to matter who our backup QB is. No one is going to step in and carry us through the playoffs. I'm really not opposed to having Davis, Tebow, or even Kroy Biermann backing up Ryan. Any of the three should be somewhat entertaining to watch, and I'm fairly certain that they would contribute to us getting something truly worthwhile from Ryan's loss... A high draft pick.


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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:41 am 
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fun gus wrote:
Point 2: disagree. After 2007, Petrino, and the parade of losers, I honestly dont think if we GET to the point that Tim Tebow is taking snaps, it matters. If were going down in flames, I want that sh*t talked about incessantly and media crews outside the Ga Dome. Blank and TD might figure out it would be worth it to invest in grooming a backup instead of going through guys like JPW or DJ Shockley, who were brought in alot more because of proximity, instead of talent...*

Yeah, this is going to be another point where we disagree. I don't want the circus, nor do I think Blank or TD want it. Sounds like you're saying, "Next to 2007, this is no big deal." And I disagree. I think it would be worse than 2007. The media scrutiny would be 1000x worse than it was then, because the media grows exponentially every year.

RobertAP wrote:
I'm just going to throw in my $.02 on backup QB situation... I believe that the Falcons would be best suited to bring in someone like Joey Heisman or someone with a similar skill set, who might be successful in a WCO offense. Let's face it... The Falcons are probably going to use screens/short passes to augment their run game, and a quick passing scheme to cover the weaknesses on the OL. I don't think that Davis is the best for that. Nor do I think that Tebow is a good fit for that. I would be on the lookout for someone who can get rid of the ball quickly. Joey Harrington comes to mind because he was an ideal WCO QB. Joey's MAJOR issue was arm strength. He had a weak arm, and absolutely no confidence in his deep ball. And again, that's fine because the majority of our game plan will be dink and dunk passes

I disagree. The ideal backup for the Falcons is a QB with a strong arm that isn't afraid to throw the ball downfield. That player should also be somewhat mobile to deal with our porous offensive line, since it's unlikely that he'll be as adept as Ryan is in terms of limited sacks.

If the Falcons just wanted a dink and dunker, they could have easily kept McCown.

The best asset the Falcons have on their offense is Julio Jones. He makes teams play us differently when he's on the field than they would. The Falcons offense would be fairly easy to slow down/stop if he wasn't on the field.

With Ryan out, to keep the offense operating at its peak efficiency will involve adding a player that is willing to pull the trigger on downfield throws.

Otherwise the Falcons will just go back to being the 2010 offense, but without the running game to support it like that one had. Remember in 2010, the Falcons 1st quarter run-pass balance was 47/53. In 2012, that was 42/58. It got even worse when you factor in the entire 1st half. In 2010, the run-pass balance in the 1st half was 43/57. In 2012, it was 35/65.

It's not going to work unless the defense continues to make us +1, +2 or better in TO margin every week. And that's not reliable nor sustainable, especially on the road. So if Ryan is going to miss a couple of games this year, it'd best happen early in the year, when 4 of their first 6 games are home outings.

Unfortunately, the Falcons do to either naivete, complacency, ignorance, or a combination of all three opted to make their bed with Dominique Davis. We'll see if Davis improves and/or this team manages to salvage a halfway decent body off the scrap heap at the end of the month.

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:01 pm 
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I believe that our offense is what it is because there are so many weapons on the field at one time. If we have a QB that has a great deep ball, but sucks otherwise, he will not be of much use in our offense. Again, our ideal backup will be someone who can read a defense and get the ball out quickly. The ability to run around behind our line will not play to the rest of our strengths on offense.


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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:27 pm 
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Again, I disagree. I won't keep going back and forth on this, but our offense is what it is because of Matt Ryan and his play. Ryan is a "win at the line of scrimmage" kind of QB, something that probably less than a dozen QBs currently in the NFL are. Those guys are almost all starters. The few that aren't like Shaun Hill and Matt Hasselbeck the Falcons have had opportunities to snag the past two off-seasons, but instead opted to re-sign Chris Redman and develop Dominique Davis.

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The player that you are seeking is basically Captain Checkdown, which if inserted into the lineup is going to make it much easier for opponents to defend us because they won't have to respect the deep ball as much. Ryan gets around this because of his other skills makes him highly efficient at managing a game. Frankly, there are maybe only 3 or 4 QBs in the league that are better in that capacity. That won't be the case for your Joey Harrington/Brady Quinn/Luke McCown type of QB. What will happen is the Falcons offense will be a lot of short, quick throws hoping that they can get guys like Julio in space after the catch. They can function that way, but eventually defenses will get wise, CBs will cheat up on throws and take those things away. For example, last year you could say the "bread and butter" of the 49ers passing attack with Kaepernick were shallow crosses to Crabtree. Seemed like they ran those a half dozen times per game to great effect. Why didn't teams stop it? Because their safeties and LBs had to cheat back because they had to respect Kaepernick's ability to throw the deep ball to Davis, Walker, Moss, etc. If they started to cheat up to defend Crabtree, Kaepernick would go right over the top of them for big plays.

Now with Matt Ryan, once you get beyond 20-22 yards, he's not a very efficient passer. But he is highly efficient throwing the ball 15-20 yards, so teams still can't cheat up to defend all the screens and outs the Falcons throw Julio's way. That 15-17 yard range is Ryan's butter zone as far as vertical passing goes. The problem with many of these checkdown guys like Harrington is that they don't want to throw the ball in the 15-17 yard range. And while this Falcon offense won't be nearly as effective sans Ryan, to even sniff at it being an efficient offense without him, they need someone willing to pull the trigger on those 17+ yard throws.

Now with all that said, would I take one of those checkdown guys over Davis assuming there is no improvement in his play right now? Yes. But that's only because the Falcons have completely mishandled their backup QB situation and you're trying to make lemonade out of lemons.

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:27 am 
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Since none of this is happening I'd love Tebow at second string......

I do believe Coach Smith would change what he could to help Tebow.

It would probably take 4 years; but I think Tebow could play in this league.

I believe Bill B. did not take Tebow for silly reasons; just future ones.

Should Davis really continue to suck the Falcons can't keep a player for second string
Qb that plays horrible.

I think its more likely Davis read all about 2nd team Qb was his to lose, and he just lost it Thursday. I expect him to look better this week!!

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:48 pm 
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I think Bill B. took Tebow for ego reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Belichick's track record for developing backups hasn't been very strong.

After trading away Drew Bledsoe in 2002, they drafted Rohan Davey in the 4th round of that draft. They still had Damon Huard as the No. 2, who was the No. 3 in 2001.

Huard and Davey continued to be the backups in 2003. Then Huard left for KC in 2004, and Davey went over to NFL Europe and was the league MVP that year and was the lone backup behind Brady in '04. But apparently he hadn't progressed in 3 years as much as they liked because they signed Doug Flutie in 2005 and drafted Matt Cassel in the 7th round. Davey got axed at the end of camp. 2005 was Flutie's swan song, and it was just Brady and Cassel in 2006. Not until they picked up Vinny Testaverde in mid-season, who quickly passed Cassel on the depth chart.

Then in 2007, Testaverde was gone and they moved Cassel up to the No. 2 spot, which based off Davey moving up to that spot in his 3rd year appears to be the M.O. They also signed UDFA Matt Gutierrez to be the No. 3.

Then in '08, they drafted Kevin O'Connell in the 3rd round. He passed Gutierrez who went to the practice squad. But then Brady got hurt, Cassel went from No. 2 to No. 1, and Gutierrez got put on the roster as the No. 3.

In 2009, they dealt Cassel to KC. They signed an UDFA named Brian Hoyer. They also used a 7th round pick on a former college QB turned WR in Julian Edelman. Hoyer beat out O'Connell & Gutierrez for the backup job. They picked up FA Andrew Walter at the end of the summer when the Raiders cut him, but he didn't stick. O'Connell & Gutierrez were both cut too. And they picked up another ex-college QB converted to WR in Isaiah Stanback on the practice squad, and he was eventually promoted to the roster as a ST player.

In 2010, Hoyer continued as the No. 2, with only Edelman as the emergency No. 3. Stanback got cut in the off-season.

In 2011, they used a 3rd round pick on Ryan Mallett to push Hoyer. Hoyer still remained the No. 2 however.

In 2012, Mallett beat out Hoyer and was the lone backup on the team. Hoyer landed with the Steelers and then Cardinals. Then was cut by the Cards in the off-season and is now with the Browns.

Now this year, they bring in Tebow to push Mallett, now in his 3rd season.

Is he going to hit with Tebow? Unlikely. We'll see what happens, but I think if there is a plan for Tebow, it's to stash him in 2013 and then hope that come 2014 he can start to utilize him.

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Is he going to hit with Tebow? Unlikely. We'll see what happens, but I think if there is a plan for Tebow, it's to stash him in 2013 and then hope that come 2014 he can start to utilize him.



"I'm already stocking up on tissues fun gus for the sad day at the end of August when the Patriots cut Tebow." :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkqgDoo_eZE

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crazy like a Fox:

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- The contrast in the New England Patriots' preseason opener against the Philadelphia Eagles was striking.

Quarterback Tom Brady played the first 16 offensive snaps and the offense looked pretty similar to what we've seen in recent years. There might have been new faces in various spots, but it was the same explosive results.

When No. 2 signal-caller Ryan Mallett came on for the next 25 offensive snaps, the majority of plays looked the same. At 6-foot-6 and listed at 245 pounds, Mallett has a cannon of a right arm and is more of a pure pocket passer.


[+] Enlarge
Elsa/Getty ImagesTebow didn't look nearly as comfortable dropping back and passing as he did running with the football on Friday.

Then there was Tim Tebow. After running a few conventional plays in the two-minute offense with little success, the Patriots reshaped their attack for Tebow. All of a sudden, there was a full-house backfield on one snap. Some plays with option-based concepts were run. At one point, a receiver motioned into the backfield.

It was the type of stuff that one would never see with Brady, or even Mallett, in the game. Now we know why.

Patriots coach Bill Belichick, who to this point hasn't gone into much public detail about the team's plans with Tebow, loosened up a bit on Monday. Three weeks after not even acknowledging if his intention was to play Tebow at quarterback, Belichick not only said so Monday, but he took it one step further. He referred to Tebow as a running quarterback, saying he is the first the Patriots have had since backup Matt Cassel from 2005 to 2008.

Belichick's remarks came on sports radio WEEI as part of his weekly appearance, where he often seems more comfortable going into depth than during his standard news conference setting.

So if you're curious why the Patriots have devoted time to making it work with Tebow as a third-string quarterback, carving out precious practice time to run plays that Brady and Mallett wouldn't, Belichick laid it out pretty clearly.

"The decisions that you make are important there; you don't want to waste a lot of time on something that doesn't benefit you," Belichick said on the "Salk and Holley" program.

"At the same time, you want to try to be prepared for, and take advantage of, some of the players' skills that you have. I don't think it's uncommon. We've had those types of things in our offense before. This is a little bit different, but we're not trying to reinvent the game or anything. We're just trying to take advantage of a particular player's skill, and that's no different than something we would do with a tight end, or a receiver, or running back who has a skill set that we want to try to take advantage of."

The difference, of course, is that when the player is a quarterback, it has a significant trickle-down effect on the other 10 players on offense. Everything runs through the quarterback.

Cassel's performance in 2008, when he took over for the injured Brady, is the closest example for the Patriots when it comes to what we've seen with Tebow this year. The Patriots tweaked their offense in 2008 to play to Cassel's strengths, and some might even say it was one of best coaching jobs Belichick and his staff have done in New England.

If the Patriots ever got down to the No. 3 spot on the depth chart this year, similar alterations would be necessary. While Tebow has improved since training camp began, it still doesn't look natural for him when he's simply asked to drop back, read a defense, and function as more of a traditional drop-back passer. He's at his best on the run, such as the third-and-6 play early in the third quarter on Friday when the Patriots executed a quarterback keeper out of a spread formation -- with Tebow darting 12 yards as 5-foot-11, 210-pound safety Earl Wolff found out firsthand how tough it is to tackle the 6-foot-3, 245-pound Tebow. Wolff, to be kind, was splattered like a bug on a windshield.



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So when it comes to the Patriots and Tebow, maybe the thinking is simply this: How many teams, when they get down to their No. 3 quarterback, still realistically have a chance to win?

The Patriots could have kept things more traditional with No. 3 man Mike Kafka, but they just didn't see enough there, that one standout trait, to think he could stick on the roster long-term. Tebow has a standout trait -- his running ability -- that could help in an emergency, which is why the club is likely to strongly consider keeping three quarterbacks this year.

In 2011, when explaining why the Patriots would use a third-round draft choice to select Mallett, Belichick said that a coach puts his entire team at risk if he doesn't have a quarterback to run the offense. Investing in such an insurance policy speaks to the importance of the position, and also helps explain why the Patriots have been willing to reshape parts of their approach in working with Tebow.
"I think we're hopefully flexible enough offensively to try to take advantage of whoever we have in the game. Tim is certainly a good runner, so when he's in there, we'll probably let him carry the ball a few times," Belichick said on WEEI.

"Tim has had a lot of experience making those decisions -- whether to give the ball to the back or keep it, or pitch it, all those kinds of things. It's not really like we're trying to teach him those things. He's done it a lot. He has to refine the timing and so forth, but it creates just another thing to put pressure on the defense."

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Well kudos to BB for "getting it" in regards to Tebow.

Now I have a new theory for why the Pats signed Tebow. To stick it to Jets and show them what they should've done last year.

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:20 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Well kudos to BB for "getting it" in regards to Tebow.

Now I have a new theory for why the Pats signed Tebow. To stick it to Jets and show them what they should've done last year.



Yeah, because some 'book' ( War Room ) seems to make more sense then a decade-long dynastic team of personell.

How about the guy might be worth a 's***'? Maybe?

You just did it now, Pudge! You even said he would be CUT. Not only is he not going to be CUT: he is going to be a 3rd string QB. In a franchise that has multiple rings. Yay Renfree!

The fact that you would even entertain the fact that the Pats took Tebow just to 'prove' something? Okay...That is silly.

That is PB21 territory. Give it up. The guy is what he is...And your theory is wrong, my friend :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:58 pm 
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Go ahead thump your chest fun gus. Teensy weensy teeny tiny itsy bitsy little victories. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:27 am 
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Pudge wrote:
Go ahead thump your chest fun gus. Teensy weensy teeny tiny itsy bitsy little victories. :lol:


:rofl:

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I'll take it. Im lovin' it. They said he would never win a championship. They said he would never win a Heismann.
They said he would never make it in the NFL, let alone be a first round draft pick. They said he would never start. They said he would not win as a starter. they said he would never win a playoff game. They said he was finished after year one. They said he was finished after year two. In April, there was talk of him being blackballed and out of the league. And even the Mighty Pudgster predictied he would be cut.

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by all means, keep going! :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk0hAuI6H5I#at=174

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 Post subject: Re: D Davis
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:50 am 
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And then they said he couldn't be the third string QB on the Patriots. And he showed them!

He always proves people wrong!


The World: "Hey Tim, you can't even hold that clipboard!"

Tebow: "I'll show you. I'll hold the s*** out of this clipboard! I even drew a smiley face in the upper right hand corner during one of the many games where all I did was stand around as Coach Bill talked to Tom during a timeout. Now, the biggest competition I have on a weekly basis is trying to beat Ryan Mallett out to sit next to Tom on the bench when he's reviewing the pictures of the previous series. Ryan is so dumb, I always win. I always get to sit next to Tom. I enjoy because even when Tom is sweaty, he kinda smells nice. Sometimes Josh McDaniels will make a joke, and Tom will laugh and it's the sound you'd expect angels, except it's much sweeter, like angel laughter dipped in honey. God bless."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtyNBacI-D4

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