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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:47 pm 
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Good point on pit ownership, FW. Furthermore, I had adopted a black Lab adult a year or so back from the Humane Society who I had to return after a couple of months because he attacked people. Oddly, he would walk up to folks like he wanted them to pet them and when they started to it was on. After he went after my wife old Rookie had to go back where I assume they put him to sleep. That said, I think there is enough evidence that pits have a bit of a propensity toward aggression to at least give one pause. Whether it is because of the type people who own them or not is hard to say.


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 Post subject: Damage
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:06 pm 
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For all intents and purpose, we need to look at damage. In nearly all cases, save fluke things like catching a lip and tearing someones face open, newspaper headlines look for damage.

Big Dog = Mass damage and death
Medium Dog = Bite, or ouchy, or some stitches in extreme cases.
Small Dog = Damn! That little bugger just bit me! *shakes hand*

All dogs bite, good owner or no, and this is how I can prove it. Dogs sense fear. Somebody out there tell me I am wrong. Run from a big, or even little, dog and tell me the thing won't come after you. Provoked or not, the animals can pick fear up on radar and something in their genetics trips a switch.

My in-laws are complete pacifists, don't kill insects, and bought two dogs for their three youngest daughters. These animals were always fed, never abused, and loved like children, and yet they would attack people. Who did they attack you ask? They attacked people who were scared of them.

One was a boxer, a really sweet dog (and boxers have little teeth that can barely get through skin), and the other was a Lab, a breed known to be supper nice to EVERYONE. Now, when people would drive up to the house the boxer would get excited, something boxers do, and rush the car. Seeing this, the Lab would also rush the vehicle. If the unfortunate person had gotten out of the car, they were in trouble. What is a standard reaction when two large dogs run at you barking like mad? I would say at least a backstep, and more than likely real fear as you scramble for your vehicle. Once they got a whiff of this, the boxer would jump at the victim, as boxers knock you down (hence the name boxer) instead of biting because of their little teeth. While you were defending against the knockdown, the Lab would bite you (as Labs are not front paw strikers and he used the only other offense he had, that being his teeth). The Lab, the nicest dog in the world, would rip clothes off people, bloody fingers, legs, arms, and all the while assume it was a game. The Lab would be tearing you up and wagging its tail. The more the person paniced, the more the dogs attacked. It was awful, and these were dogs that would let babies pull ears and do whatever to them and not even bat an eye about it.

Large dogs create large problems, no matter who owns them. Any of you that have them, and I give you the benefit of the doubt that you have well treated dogs, would defend them by saying it was the victim's fault. They victims were 'on your property', or 'they ran from the dog', or whatever. I am not saying you are wrong, I am just saying you have to make excuses for big dogs because big dogs make bigger problems. Big dogs are scary, period, and if you react the wrong way around the best behaved big dogs you can still find yourself hurt. More hurt than reacting poorly around a beagle.

Plus, as was stated above, dogs are pack animals. They don't like other dogs coming into their territory, and the guy attacked by D-Lo's dogs was walking his dog. Maybe that other dogs marked that $4000 fence and the three pits took offense, or maybe they got exited just by another dog and human near them and fed off of each others anxiety until they chewed through the fence and went to town. Again, not an issue of bad dogs, but with dogs that size the danger factor goes up, as does the damage factor.

MF1

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 Post subject: Damage
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:06 pm 
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For all intents and purpose, we need to look at damage. In nearly all cases, save fluke things like catching a lip and tearing someones face open, newspaper headlines look for damage.

Big Dog = Mass damage and death
Medium Dog = Bite, or ouchy, or some stitches in extreme cases.
Small Dog = Damn! That little bugger just bit me! *shakes hand*

All dogs bite, good owner or no, and this is how I can prove it. Dogs sense fear. Somebody out there tell me I am wrong. Run from a big, or even little, dog and tell me the thing won't come after you. Provoked or not, the animals can pick fear up on radar and something in their genetics trips a switch.

My in-laws are complete pacifists, don't kill insects, and bought two dogs for their three youngest daughters. These animals were always fed, never abused, and loved like children, and yet they would attack people. Who did they attack you ask? They attacked people who were scared of them.

One was a boxer, a really sweet dog (and boxers have little teeth that can barely get through skin), and the other was a Lab, a breed known to be supper nice to EVERYONE. Now, when people would drive up to the house the boxer would get excited, something boxers do, and rush the car. Seeing this, the Lab would also rush the vehicle. If the unfortunate person had gotten out of the car, they were in trouble. What is a standard reaction when two large dogs run at you barking like mad? I would say at least a backstep, and more than likely real fear as you scramble for your vehicle. Once they got a whiff of this, the boxer would jump at the victim, as boxers knock you down (hence the name boxer) instead of biting because of their little teeth. While you were defending against the knockdown, the Lab would bite you (as Labs are not front paw strikers and he used the only other offense he had, that being his teeth). The Lab, the nicest dog in the world, would rip clothes off people, bloody fingers, legs, arms, and all the while assume it was a game. The Lab would be tearing you up and wagging its tail. The more the person paniced, the more the dogs attacked. It was awful, and these were dogs that would let babies pull ears and do whatever to them and not even bat an eye about it.

Large dogs create large problems, no matter who owns them. Any of you that have them, and I give you the benefit of the doubt that you have well treated dogs, would defend them by saying it was the victim's fault. They victims were 'on your property', or 'they ran from the dog', or whatever. I am not saying you are wrong, I am just saying you have to make excuses for big dogs because big dogs make bigger problems. Big dogs are scary, period, and if you react the wrong way around the best behaved big dogs you can still find yourself hurt. More hurt than reacting poorly around a beagle.

Plus, as was stated above, dogs are pack animals. They don't like other dogs coming into their territory, and the guy attacked by D-Lo's dogs was walking his dog. Maybe that other dogs marked that $4000 fence and the three pits took offense, or maybe they got exited just by another dog and human near them and fed off of each others anxiety until they chewed through the fence and went to town. Again, not an issue of bad dogs, but with dogs that size the danger factor goes up, as does the damage factor.

MF1

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"I am certainly not afraid to have Brian Finneran on the field. Has he ever not made plays? He just makes plays. He is one of those guys that just makes plays. He is dependable."

J. Mora JR.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:44 pm 
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Wow, I think this is the hottest thread on the board despite the pre-season game. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:30 pm 
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That should tell you all you need to know about the NFL pre-season.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:23 am 
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GSUTeke wrote:
Capologist wrote:
All those who said blame the owner or the person getting bitten and not the dog are 100% correct.


law enforcement can't punish the dog.


however you RECTIFY the situation by putting the dogs down. i can't believe D-Lo/his brother got a pass in this situation.



Hall and his brother didn't get a pass...his brother was issued 6 citations as a result...Hall go off because he wasn't in possession of the dogs when the incident occurred


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:36 am 
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Steve-O wrote:
GSUTeke wrote:
Capologist wrote:
All those who said blame the owner or the person getting bitten and not the dog are 100% correct.


law enforcement can't punish the dog.


however you RECTIFY the situation by putting the dogs down. i can't believe D-Lo/his brother got a pass in this situation.



Hall and his brother didn't get a pass...his brother was issued 6 citations as a result...Hall go off because he wasn't in possession of the dogs when the incident occurred


Ok MyWebName.... you just got your butt mauled by two Pits. do 6 citations to the dog's owner make you feel any better? LOL come on. i can't believe you guys are trying to take that side of this argument.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:24 pm 
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GSUTeke wrote:
Ok MyWebName.... you just got your butt mauled by two Pits. do 6 citations to the dog's owner make you feel any better? LOL come on. i can't believe you guys are trying to take that side of this argument.


IMO, it doesn't matter if the owner is stupid or the if dog is just plain vicious. If he's in a neighborhood environment and mauls someone, then that dog needs to be a dead dog. If it were mine, law enforcment would not have to order it. I may keep him alive long enough to settle quarantine/observation requirements, but it would never bite another person. Period.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:35 pm 
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RdHdBirdFan wrote:
GSUTeke wrote:
Ok MyWebName.... you just got your butt mauled by two Pits. do 6 citations to the dog's owner make you feel any better? LOL come on. i can't believe you guys are trying to take that side of this argument.


IMO, it doesn't matter if the owner is stupid or the if dog is just plain vicious. If he's in a neighborhood environment and mauls someone, then that dog needs to be a dead dog. If it were mine, law enforcment would not have to order it. I may keep him alive long enough to settle quarantine/observation requirements, but it would never bite another person. Period.


finally a common sense approach!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:25 pm 
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GSUTeke wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
GSUTeke wrote:
Capologist wrote:
All those who said blame the owner or the person getting bitten and not the dog are 100% correct.


law enforcement can't punish the dog.


however you RECTIFY the situation by putting the dogs down. i can't believe D-Lo/his brother got a pass in this situation.



Hall and his brother didn't get a pass...his brother was issued 6 citations as a result...Hall go off because he wasn't in possession of the dogs when the incident occurred


you said he got a pass...thus implying he didn't face any sort of reprecussions. I was just merely pointing out he did face some reprecussions....whether they were strong enough I didn't comment on.
Ok MyWebName.... you just got your butt mauled by two Pits. do 6 citations to the dog's owner make you feel any better? LOL come on. i can't believe you guys are trying to take that side of this argument.


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