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 Post subject: Howdy Falc Fans!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:36 pm 
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Hi there Falc Fans. My name is Big Vinny and I'm from a Jaguars fansite that's currently in the "petition" stage of joining the IFS Alliance.

Just thought I'd drop by and say hello to everyone and wish ya'll luck in this weekends game against the Rams.

All of us in North Florida are excited about our first Super Bowl and we'd love to have some Atlanta folks down for the party!

And for our first Super Bowl to be Vick's first would be awesome!!

Good luck,

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:30 am 
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Thanks for dropping by Vinny. Yeah, I think we are all hoping for the same thing. Vick in the Super Bowl, it would be the pinnacle of FalcFandom. Every big game Vick has been in, he's stepped it up, and even on the biggest stage in the world, I would expect no different.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:55 am 
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Well guys, congrats on taking another step in the right direction towards Jacksonville. What a total domination you put on the Rams.

We'd love to have you all down here for the game representing the Southeastern US!

Good luck against those Eagles.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:37 am 
As a Jacksonville, FL born native, i want to thank you for your kind comments. I do follow the Jaguars, but my heart is with the Falcons.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:40 pm 
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Anonymous wrote:
As a Jacksonville, FL born native, i want to thank you for your kind comments. I do follow the Jaguars, but my heart is with the Falcons.


You are certainly welcome. We're excited about our first Super Bowl and it's hard to believe the years of waiting are almost over. It would be awesome if you guys make it. Vick is the kind of celebrity that would make this think just crazy. As if the Super Bowl is a media frenzy anyway, just add someone like Vick to the mix and it'll be insane.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:43 pm 
BigVinny wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
As a Jacksonville, FL born native, i want to thank you for your kind comments. I do follow the Jaguars, but my heart is with the Falcons.


You are certainly welcome. We're excited about our first Super Bowl and it's hard to believe the years of waiting are almost over. It would be awesome if you guys make it. Vick is the kind of celebrity that would make this think just crazy. As if the Super Bowl is a media frenzy anyway, just add someone like Vick to the mix and it'll be insane.


So why are you dissin' him in your forum?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:24 pm 
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Anonymous wrote:
BigVinny wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
As a Jacksonville, FL born native, i want to thank you for your kind comments. I do follow the Jaguars, but my heart is with the Falcons.


You are certainly welcome. We're excited about our first Super Bowl and it's hard to believe the years of waiting are almost over. It would be awesome if you guys make it. Vick is the kind of celebrity that would make this think just crazy. As if the Super Bowl is a media frenzy anyway, just add someone like Vick to the mix and it'll be insane.


So why are you dissin' him in your forum?


Not dissing him. Not at all. I do feel that as a complete football player, he is overrated. Sorry, but I do. However, I certainly do think that his presence at the Super Bowl would add to the media frenzy. Notice I said "Vick is the kind of celebrity" I didn't say "Vick is the best QB in the history of the league."

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:40 pm 
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Yes, Vick is a bit overrated. Although I don't like to use the word "overrated", but rather "overhyped." Anybody that actual rates him knows that he is very far from a complete QB that can sit back and throw the ball 30 times and win football games that way. But I do think that Vick is overhyped a bit because certain people give him a buzz that makes it sound like he's a complete QB, when he is far from it.

If the Falcons do manage to go to the Super Bowl, and win, I suspect Vick will regain his #1 spot as the best-selling jersey. Of course, if Roethlisberger goes to the Super Bowl, he might as well keep it.[/code]

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:22 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Yes, Vick is a bit overrated. Although I don't like to use the word "overrated", but rather "overhyped." Anybody that actual rates him knows that he is very far from a complete QB that can sit back and throw the ball 30 times and win football games that way. But I do think that Vick is overhyped a bit because certain people give him a buzz that makes it sound like he's a complete QB, when he is far from it.

If the Falcons do manage to go to the Super Bowl, and win, I suspect Vick will regain his #1 spot as the best-selling jersey. Of course, if Roethlisberger goes to the Super Bowl, he might as well keep it.[/code]


Pudge, my man. Could not have said that any better. Overhyped. Absolutely. I suspect your anonymous guest is referring to the thread I started on my site where I stated that Vick should not be the highest paid player in the league because he is not the best overall. I said it was an insult to other more succesful QBs in the league.

What your guest failed to mention is that I said Vick has an unreal quality of being able to elevate those around him. He makes every single player on the Falcons play better. For that, he is extremely valuable.

To say he's the best QB is silly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:36 pm 
first of all, thanks for welcoming us to the site...it's awesome...i for one love michael vick...i loved him at virginia tech and feel that atl is the best place for him(next to jax...but im just being selfish)...i think he is worth his money...and feel that he is one skill(accuracy) away from just dominating...how many players do you know that can literally make the WHOLE team...offense defense and special teams play better...im personally rooting for the dirty birds to bring it on to jacksonville...raise that trophy...michael vick, MVP...this footballl god has it all riding on you guys...ill b back to the site...again, awesome...come pay the football gods a visit every once in awhile...because Feezie has nothing but love for you guys in the 770 or 404(i know a lil bit about ya) :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:39 pm 
by the way, my name is Feezie...i posted as a guest just for today...a profile will be on the way...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:10 pm 
Pudge wrote:
Yes, Vick is a bit overrated. Although I don't like to use the word "overrated", but rather "overhyped." Anybody that actual rates him knows that he is very far from a complete QB that can sit back and throw the ball 30 times and win football games that way. But I do think that Vick is overhyped a bit because certain people give him a buzz that makes it sound like he's a complete QB, when he is far from it.

If the Falcons do manage to go to the Super Bowl, and win, I suspect Vick will regain his #1 spot as the best-selling jersey. Of course, if Roethlisberger goes to the Super Bowl, he might as well keep it.[/code]


Yeah, but you don't hear people saying that Manning isn't a "complete" QB - but they should cause he doesn't run, right? Why are there a different set of standards for Vick?
The reason he is "over-hyped" (don't agree there) is because he does things that very few others can do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:15 pm 
BigVinny wrote:
Pudge wrote:
Yes, Vick is a bit overrated. Although I don't like to use the word "overrated", but rather "overhyped." Anybody that actual rates him knows that he is very far from a complete QB that can sit back and throw the ball 30 times and win football games that way. But I do think that Vick is overhyped a bit because certain people give him a buzz that makes it sound like he's a complete QB, when he is far from it.

If the Falcons do manage to go to the Super Bowl, and win, I suspect Vick will regain his #1 spot as the best-selling jersey. Of course, if Roethlisberger goes to the Super Bowl, he might as well keep it.[/code]


Pudge, my man. Could not have said that any better. Overhyped. Absolutely. I suspect your anonymous guest is referring to the thread I started on my site where I stated that Vick should not be the highest paid player in the league because he is not the best overall. I said it was an insult to other more succesful QBs in the league.

What your guest failed to mention is that I said Vick has an unreal quality of being able to elevate those around him. He makes every single player on the Falcons play better. For that, he is extremely valuable.

To say he's the best QB is silly.


I never said he was the best QB - he is, however, the best at WHAT HE DOES which is win games with his feet (the whole team actually wins).

To say that his contract is an insult, IS AN INSULT! Vick is a franchise QB just like your Mannings, McNairs, Culpeppers, etc. You pay your FRANCHISE to stay with the team and produce wins and that is what Vick does. Games in which he has started since he has returned from a broken leg, the Falcons are 15-4. That to me says that he is worth every penny.

Not trying to jump your guns, just a little HYPED this week with all the smack talk I have been hearing all season long and now this week. Welcome to the board! :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:47 pm 
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Well Manning is the league's best QB, but I don't think he's perfect, and I only rate Manning at #1 because of the dropoff McNair had this year.

Completeness is a complicated issue, because you could make the argument that you have to be able to move and run to be a truly "complete" player. So that would probably make McNabb the best "complete" QB in the league.

And Vick may not be the best passer at the position, but he's the best player. As others have said, his teammates level of play is elevated around him. Me and my older brother were discussing this a few weeks ago, but never before in the history of the NFL has there every been a single player that could do the things for football what Michael Jordan did for basketball, which in essence was to carry a team full of decent/average players to a Super Bowl ring. Vick may be the first. People always say there are no such things as one-man teams, but Vick may change that notion, at least for this year. Yes, the Falcons have a few more playmakers on this team that contribute, but we all know that none of these guys would do diddly if Vick wasn't under center (see last season).

Vick is worth the money for the same reasons that otehrs have said, since he brings so much to the table. He's only going to get better as a passer with more experience. I don't think he'll ever achieve the level of ability that those "elite" passers like Young, Manning, Montana, Elway, Marino, etc. have achieved in the past. In all honesty, I doubt Vick will ever really be considered to be a Top 5 or 10 passer amongst his peers at any point in his career.

Look at Cunningham, he really only had 1 good year in his entire career where you could say he was a solid passer. To others this may sound like a diss, but I think the best we can expect out of Vick as a QB is to achieve a level of consistency that Chris Chandler achieved. But of course that depends on how you rate Chandler. I thought Chandler was a capable starting QB that could win games with his arms. He wasn't special, but if you protected him he could lead you to a 9-7 season consistently, just based off his passing skills. I think Vick eventually can do the same.

But basically, I think that Vick is overhyped a bit. I don't think his accuracy is his biggest issue, but rather the decisions he makes in the pocket. He will make some bonehead plays (see the last TB game this past season) and can tend to turn the ball over a bit too much (like Favre), but he brings a lot more to teh table on his good days than any other QB.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:51 pm 
Pudge wrote:
Well Manning is the league's best QB, but I don't think he's perfect, and I only rate Manning at #1 because of the dropoff McNair had this year.

Completeness is a complicated issue, because you could make the argument that you have to be able to move and run to be a truly "complete" player. So that would probably make McNabb the best "complete" QB in the league.

And Vick may not be the best passer at the position, but he's the best player. As others have said, his teammates level of play is elevated around him. Me and my older brother were discussing this a few weeks ago, but never before in the history of the NFL has there every been a single player that could do the things for football what Michael Jordan did for basketball, which in essence was to carry a team full of decent/average players to a Super Bowl ring. Vick may be the first. People always say there are no such things as one-man teams, but Vick may change that notion, at least for this year. Yes, the Falcons have a few more playmakers on this team that contribute, but we all know that none of these guys would do diddly if Vick wasn't under center (see last season).

Vick is worth the money for the same reasons that otehrs have said, since he brings so much to the table. He's only going to get better as a passer with more experience. I don't think he'll ever achieve the level of ability that those "elite" passers like Young, Manning, Montana, Elway, Marino, etc. have achieved in the past. In all honesty, I doubt Vick will ever really be considered to be a Top 5 or 10 passer amongst his peers at any point in his career.

Look at Cunningham, he really only had 1 good year in his entire career where you could say he was a solid passer. To others this may sound like a diss, but I think the best we can expect out of Vick as a QB is to achieve a level of consistency that Chris Chandler achieved. But of course that depends on how you rate Chandler. I thought Chandler was a capable starting QB that could win games with his arms. He wasn't special, but if you protected him he could lead you to a 9-7 season consistently, just based off his passing skills. I think Vick eventually can do the same.

But basically, I think that Vick is overhyped a bit. I don't think his accuracy is his biggest issue, but rather the decisions he makes in the pocket. He will make some bonehead plays (see the last TB game this past season) and can tend to turn the ball over a bit too much (like Favre), but he brings a lot more to teh table on his good days than any other QB.


All good points, Pudge. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:57 pm 
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Pudge, I am really going to enjoy talking to you my friend.

All EXCELLENT EXCELLENT points. What's ironic about this is that me and my partner at The Football Gods (Feezie) were having the same exact conversation about Jordan on Monday.

I always see columns comparing Vick to Jordan. Feez and I agree on the fact that there has never been anyone like Jordan in the NFL (the 1st thing Feez and I have ever agreed on!).

I'm of the opinion that Jordan dominated ever phase of the game. Hasn't been anyone like that in the NFL. Not even close. And like you said, do we take points away from Manning for not being mobile? Is that part of the definition of a good QB? I sure hope not since our QB here in Jax is even less mobile than Manning, if that's possible.

Hockey had Gretzky and he was dominant in his sport just like Jordan. Baseball and Football have not ever had one guy who just totally carries a team. Without Jordan, the Bulls would not have had one trophy.

For Vick to achieve that kind of label, he has to improve many facets of his game and win four or five Vince Lombardi's. Then we'll talk.

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 Post subject: Welcome Big Vinny good to have another member
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:31 am 
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Welcome to the forum Big Vinny.It is good to see another member that likes to talk football. I can't add alot of comments about Vick since most have been addressed by Pudge but one thing not to over look is the falcon's must find the players to protect Vick or else he will have a short career.If you give your franchise player over 100 million dollars you better get some blockers for him to protect the investment.I think this is no1 on the agenda for the off season.

Gibbs has done well with the line on blocking techniques when it comes to the run but it is protecting Vick during the pass is what must be improved.The Falcon's can not risk another season of mediocre tackles especially at left tackle where Vick rolls out more than the right side.Shaffer must be replaced in my opinion.Me and Pudge have had some comments on who the falcon's should draft and I don't know how much money will be available to sign free agents but adding Ryan Diem from the Colts and or Mike Wahle from Green Bay have to be neat the top.There is way to much penetration from def tackles on Vick from the guard spot.Get Wahle and draft a tackle that has alot of potential then Vick should remain healthy to develop his potential.I am real interested to see how Vick plays with an off line that gives him protection.We have had plenty of debates on whether it is the off line not giving vick time,vick just not reading the defenses or the receviers not getting open so if we fix the line then gauging the others should fall in place.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:26 pm 
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Thank for the welcome.

I must say I'm sorry you guys couldn't pull it off yesterday. I have already gone to the Eagles site and congratulated them and welcomed them to Jacksonville. But I have to tell you that I really did want to see ya'll down here.

I was unsure just a week ago but talking to you all over here at falcfans made me a believer. And you've all made me into a closet Falcons Fan! After the years our teams had, maybe I should be a closet Jags fan, huh?

Serioulsy, congrats on a great season.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:26 pm 
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Hey Vinny, welcome aboard! The outcome was rough but the future is bright so it was a little easier to swallow....


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