It is currently Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:31 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Trade Down
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:46 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:11 pm
Posts: 4497
Location: Vancouver, WA
I'm going to say it now even though I don't have a lot of information as to how the draft is shaping up. Atlanta needs to trade out of the 15th pick to something at about 20 or below. I have read and followed the research of so many draft value articles I firmly believe that anything over about the 20th pick is overvalued. Top 10 picks command far more money then they should and even the 11th through 20th picks tend to be overpriced.

Considering that Atlanta is fairly cap strapped it would probably be a good idea to trade down and get additional mid round picks (4th & 3rd) while drafting a quality player at half the price of the 15th pick. There will be teams likely looking to trade up including: Kansas City, Denver, Jacksonville, NY Giants, Tampa, and Chicago. All of the previous times could be looking to move and don't really have a history of being conservative drafters.

Our more productive 1st round picks have pretty much been from the bottom half of the draft (Save for Vick & Hall) in recent years.

_________________
Fear the BEARD!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:34 pm 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 869
The problem with that is there are about 15 elite players in this draft and if we are picking best player available, we should stay there & get one of those guys, because there is a fair drop off after that group.

_________________
Image
Props to Scar for my sig.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Here are the players that could make up the top 15
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:18 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:02 pm
Posts: 6565
Location: Indianapolis IN
1.Bush
2.Leinart
3.V young
4.D.Williams
5.Maroney
6.Ferguson
7.S Holmes
8.Ngata
9.M Williams
10.Kiwanuka
11.Hawk
12.Ryans
13.J williams
14.Huff
15.Winston
16.Greenway

For the falcon's to get a shot at a pass rusher like Kiwanuka they are going to need to be around no 10.Here is my prospesal that may get us the 10th pick.Since Duckett probably won't fetch much Schaub to detroit in exchange for there no1 and the falcons no1 plus the falcons get detroit's no2.Lets face it we drafted schaub to be a backup and the motto buy low sell high would help the falcon's.Outside of mario williams and kiwanka none of the other def ends I am not that impressed with.I know we could probably get a better 1st rounder for schaub if and only if we sign a free agent as backup to vick.There are teams that need a QB.If it isn't detroit then some other team around no10.I will have to look at the draft list since I am aware of only the falcon's pick.You have vince Young and Leinart outside of that do teams want to wait 2-3 yrs to develop a QB when Schaub is ready.

Without a pass rush the Falcon's may as well forget it.Even all pro safeties can't cover or corners cover all day.Let me look at the draft list and see who we may need to trade up with to get that def end.

_________________
Sometimes running the Mularkey offense makes me feel like I'm in a prison.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:24 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:02 pm
Posts: 6565
Location: Indianapolis IN
Here is the list. Looks like Arizona,Detroit,Clevalnd ,Baltimore all need QBs and the good thing is why wouldn't you trade down to get the falcon's 15th and schaub for their 1st rounder and there second rounder.I guess we need to figure if we want to trade schaub or is this really enough for him.Frankly I am sick and tired of no pass rush and broken down brady smith.I believe Mario Williams will be gone by top7 but Kiwanka should be there if the falcons want to trade.
I really like huff also but this being a deep safety draft and lack of pass rushers you have to do something extra to get the pass rusher.


1 Houston
2-14 .535
2 New Orleans 3-13 .523
3 Tennessee 4-12 .512
4 New York Jets 4-12 .527
5 Green Bay 4-12 531
6
@ San Francisco 4-12 539
7 @ Oakland 4-12 .539
8 Buffalo 5-11 .500
9 Detroit 5-11 .504
10 Arizona 5-11 .508
11 St. Louis
6-10
.484

12
Cleveland 6-10 .508

13 Baltimore 6-10 523
14 Philadelphia 6-10 .531
15 Atlanta 8-8 .492
16 Miami 9-7 .457
17 Minnesota 9-7 .484
18
Dallas
9-7
.523

19 San Diego 9-7 .559
20
Kansas City
10-6
.504

*21
New England 10-6
.508
*22 Denver (f/WAS) 10-6 .539
*23 Tampa Bay 11-5 .449
*24 Carolina 11-5 .449
*25 Chicago 11-5 .457
*26
Cincinnati 11-5 .477
*27 Pittsburgh 11-5 .492
*27 New York Giants 11-5 .492
*29 Jacksonville 12-4 .465
*30 Denver 13-3 .500
*31 Seattle 13-3 .430
*32 Indianapolis 14-2 .457



@ = Tie Will Be Broken By a Coin Flip

* = Still to Be Determined By Playoffs

_________________
Sometimes running the Mularkey offense makes me feel like I'm in a prison.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:09 pm 
Offline
Superstar
Superstar

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:31 pm
Posts: 3136
Why do we want to get rid of Schaub again? We have depth at an important position, qb, why get thin there as well?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Here are a few reasons for getting rid of Schaub
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:47 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:02 pm
Posts: 6565
Location: Indianapolis IN
I would only trade Schaub IF the Falcon's can find a backup in free agency.Of course he won't be as good or maybe perhaps he would but would be an older veteran who can move the team and not be a disaster.

Here are the reason you trade Shaub:

1.First if teams like Arizona,Detroit,Cleveland are insisting on Schaub plus the falcon's no1 (15th) then when are you going to be in a better position to get a top def end? They don't grow on trees and I wouldn't expect the Falcon's to draft this high again for awhile if things go right.Impact def ends don't grow on trees.
2.We don't have to trade Schaub and teams like Arizona,Detroit,Cleveland will have to wiat till the second round and get the left overs which some can be pretty good.However Schaub has been in the league a few yrs and some team may prefer him rather than a rookie.


There are not many def ends in this draft that are going to make an impact other than mario williams and Kiwanaka.Hali I am not sure about if he is able to get sacks I would say stay with the no 15.Do we really want Brady Smith or pay millions of dollars to a darren howard in free agency when moving up 5 or 6 spots in the draft could net us an impact def end player?Also consider IF we sign a veteran backup which is a must to trade schaub then what are we really getting when schaub sits on the bench and vick plays? If we can get an impact def end that plays full time wouldn't you rather have that than a backup in schaub who only plays 4 games a year and more than likely we are going to trade next year any way?I know peace of mind but when you can buy low and sell high to get an impact pass rusher you do it.

_________________
Sometimes running the Mularkey offense makes me feel like I'm in a prison.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:07 am 
Offline
Superstar
Superstar

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:31 pm
Posts: 3136
There are no sure things in the draft. Schuab has proven, atleast to me, that if Vick goes down, he can shoulder the load. Apparently he has impressed other teams as well if he is in such demand. The way Vick and our offensive line play, he is going to miss time. I'd feel more comfortable with Schaub in there than bringing in soemone else.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:28 am 
Offline
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:15 am
Posts: 24
Location: Boone, NC
I also think that keeping Schuab would be a smart move, as a repeat of the 2003 season would just kill morale. I think he has progressed enough to be able to take care of business if Vick gets hurt. Are there any Vets that are potential trades for the Falcons?

_________________
“Mike Vick is one of the most unselfish teammates you'll ever see, because he truly doesn't care about his numbers. As long as I've known him, every time someone says he can't do something or sets up barriers, he leaps over them.”
— Keion Carpenter


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:18 am 
Offline
Cap Guru
Cap Guru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:28 am
Posts: 2077
Location: Macon, GA
I don't think we'll end up as cap-strapped as things appear on the surface. A lot of the money is hidden and will be dealt with shortly...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:30 pm 
Offline
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:06 pm
Posts: 11
Why trade schaub? back up several years and see one Brett Favre. He has that same type of potential, and how long until Vick gets his knee blown out


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:38 pm 
Offline
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
Purveyor of Truth & Justice
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:03 pm
Posts: 25930
Location: North Carolina
I wouldn't say Schaub's potential is in the class of Favre or any of the other more recent #1 picks. He's a good player, but there is a reason he was only seen as a middle round pick when we drafted him in 2004.

I agree, that trading Schaub should only be done if we can find a capable veteran to replace him in free agency. The likelihood that we find a guy as promising as Schaub is low, but remember the Falcons never won a game in which Schaub got the bulk of the playing time, so despite him playing well in a few performances, it's still not yet proven if he is our best option.

There should be a bulk of veteran QBs that hit the market this year. I know I'm in the minority, but I like Joey Harrington. I think he'd be a good backup here in Atlanta. Working in a very similar offense, has similar playing style to Schaub, and him coming off the bench at QB is a huge difference from him entiering the season as one.

It doesn't hurt the Falcons at all to put Schaub on the market. He wants to be traded, and the Falcons know they have a limited window of making a move if they want to get value for him. [/b][/quote]

_________________
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Thanks for pointing that out
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:58 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:02 pm
Posts: 6565
Location: Indianapolis IN
Pudge your right Schaub has not won a game yet in the NFL.Its a no brainer about seeing what the market bares for Schaub.


1.Trade schaub only if you get a free agent backup that is decent.If any of you remember the ron wolf theory always draft a QB in the draft that way you can groom him to backup,start or trade him for higher picks kinds of what we are doing with Schaub.What's the problem? you sign a backup for thius year,and draft a QB what I just said.Now I don't trade schaub just to trade him.If it allows us to move up in the draft to get an impact player why not.Def ends don't grow on trees and besides schaub is gone after next year any way unless you want to lose him for nothing in free agency in 2007.
2.Its a no brainer if Kiwanaka is availalble around pick 9 and he is highly thought of plus the team would be willing to trade there no9 pick and there second for falcons 15 and give us there second why not? It is going to take some creativity to get the players we want.Just sitting pat waiting and hoping players drop to you is a bigger risk.

_________________
Sometimes running the Mularkey offense makes me feel like I'm in a prison.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:57 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:11 pm
Posts: 4497
Location: Vancouver, WA
IMO this is a weak overall draft class I don't really think anyone player would make a major immediate impact (save for maybe Bush & Leinart, I don't think Young comes out) to this or any team. I would rather move down and get an addition 2nd or 3rd round pick and build up the depth on this team while saving some cap for a possible signing of a veteran that could immediatly take this team to the next level.

Some of the best players in NFL history didn't come out of the 1st round. Some even went undrafted.

_________________
Fear the BEARD!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:11 pm 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 869
A lot of people think this is a very strong draft class. Obviously the top 15 or so is obvious, but you have so many guys like Manny Lawson (6'6", 240lbs., runs a 4.45), Max Jean-Gilles, Bunkley, Minter, Simpson, and SO many others that will go from 20-50 and would be definite first rounders in any other class. This is especially true of LB's in this class. You will see guys like Bobby Carpenter & others go later than they normally would due to AJ Hawk, Chad Greenway, DeMeco Ryans, and other surefire first round LB's.

_________________
Image
Props to Scar for my sig.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:13 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:11 pm
Posts: 4497
Location: Vancouver, WA
Too bad we don't need a linebacker :). But this is why I usually stay out of draft talk! :twisted:

_________________
Fear the BEARD!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Trade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:34 pm 
Offline
Superstar
Superstar
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:54 pm
Posts: 1802
Location: Los Angeles California
Trading down would continue to fill the roster with guys like Boley, Beck, Lavalaix, Davis, etc. Mora loved to talk up the experience these guys were getting but in the end they didn't live up to the D we had in the starters from 04. Maybe they will get better, but these 'medium' talent players aren't really the answer to our defensive needs. Sure, the draft has late round flukes but when have the Falcons ever been lucky enough to get one? (ok, we got J. Anderson but still)

MF1

_________________
"I am certainly not afraid to have Brian Finneran on the field. Has he ever not made plays? He just makes plays. He is one of those guys that just makes plays. He is dependable."

J. Mora JR.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:48 pm 
Offline
Bench Warmer
Bench Warmer

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:06 pm
Posts: 11
While we're speculating................try this on for size
1. trade vick and tj to houston for #1(Bush) and Carr
2. trade Dunn and Carr to Oakland for their pick and Moss
then we could have the highly rated DE with the Oak pick, best player available with the 15, Draft a backup QB later in the lower rounds.
Give schaub, bush, moss, and co. next year and see you in the super bowl in 07


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:33 pm 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 814
I like where we are at in the draft and I think we will be able to find someone that fits our team there.....I doubt we will see a lot of action from the Falcons on draft day....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Here are a few reasons for getting rid of Schaub
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:10 pm 
Offline
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:12 pm
Posts: 110
thescout wrote:
I would only trade Schaub IF the Falcon's can find a backup in free agency.Of course he won't be as good or maybe perhaps he would but would be an older veteran who can move the team and not be a disaster.

Here are the reason you trade Shaub:

1.First if teams like Arizona,Detroit,Cleveland are insisting on Schaub plus the falcon's no1 (15th) then when are you going to be in a better position to get a top def end? They don't grow on trees and I wouldn't expect the Falcon's to draft this high again for awhile if things go right.Impact def ends don't grow on trees.
2.We don't have to trade Schaub and teams like Arizona,Detroit,Cleveland will have to wiat till the second round and get the left overs which some can be pretty good.However Schaub has been in the league a few yrs and some team may prefer him rather than a rookie.


There are not many def ends in this draft that are going to make an impact other than mario williams and Kiwanaka.Hali I am not sure about if he is able to get sacks I would say stay with the no 15.Do we really want Brady Smith or pay millions of dollars to a darren howard in free agency when moving up 5 or 6 spots in the draft could net us an impact def end player?Also consider IF we sign a veteran backup which is a must to trade schaub then what are we really getting when schaub sits on the bench and vick plays? If we can get an impact def end that plays full time wouldn't you rather have that than a backup in schaub who only plays 4 games a year and more than likely we are going to trade next year any way?I know peace of mind but when you can buy low and sell high to get an impact pass rusher you do it.


I totally agree with this post. I could not have said this any better.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thanks for pointing that out
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:11 pm 
Offline
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:12 pm
Posts: 110
thescout wrote:
Pudge your right Schaub has not won a game yet in the NFL.Its a no brainer about seeing what the market bares for Schaub.


1.Trade schaub only if you get a free agent backup that is decent.If any of you remember the ron wolf theory always draft a QB in the draft that way you can groom him to backup,start or trade him for higher picks kinds of what we are doing with Schaub.What's the problem? you sign a backup for thius year,and draft a QB what I just said.Now I don't trade schaub just to trade him.If it allows us to move up in the draft to get an impact player why not.Def ends don't grow on trees and besides schaub is gone after next year any way unless you want to lose him for nothing in free agency in 2007.
2.Its a no brainer if Kiwanaka is availalble around pick 9 and he is highly thought of plus the team would be willing to trade there no9 pick and there second for falcons 15 and give us there second why not? It is going to take some creativity to get the players we want.Just sitting pat waiting and hoping players drop to you is a bigger risk.


Again, total agreement.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:37 pm 
Offline
Veteran
Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:54 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Dahlonega, GA
Personally, I'd like to see us keep the pick we have in hopes that Michael Huff will be available. I think this guy would be a definite upgrade over either safety we have now and he can even play corner. He is a very sure tackler even when he is outweighed by 30+ pounds (as he showed in the Rose Bowl). He is a ball hawk and we NEED that to go with Deangelo. I he is gone and all the first round worthy D linemen are gone then yes, trade dow and see what happens.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:21 am 
Offline
All-Pro
All-Pro
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 869
Defensive Ends have an enormous bust rate. While Mario has shown no reason to possibly be a bust, it is a very risky proposition to drop a quality backup QB and a 1st round pick on him. I, too, like our 15th pick position and would be happy if we could just get a couple of extra picks in day one to add some super quality depth. There is so much talent in this draft it is ridiculous.

_________________
Image
Props to Scar for my sig.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: