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 Post subject: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:07 am 
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As has been the tradition for the past two seasons, this is the thread where you can discuss your thoughts on the college season and how it potentially impacts the 2012 draft.

I'm sure that much like past years, it will be predominately myself posting in this thread. But I think once we get towards the end of the NFL season and attention spans begin to shift towards the draft, it's always a nice resource to have.

I already got a couple of games on my DVR as of this posting. Unlike last year where I scouted probably 500 players and wrote around 375 scouting reports on the forum, I think I'll shoot for more detailed analysis of between 200-250 prospects. Although knowing me, once we get a few weeks into the season I'll probably start to go back to my old ways in trying to see everybody.

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:10 pm 
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Watched the UNLV-Wisconsin game this morning.

AS expected, Wisconsin had almost no problem moving the ball against UNLV's defense and basically began to pull many of their starters before halftime. Their defense did not look that great, as UNLV had success running the ball on them out of the pistol. That was really the only way that UNLV could move the ball.

QB Russell Wilson (formerly of NC State) has always been a prospect that reminds me of Seneca Wallace. They have similar size (5-11/205), and while I think Wilson has tools to be successful at the NFL, I think it will be tough for him to be a starter. He has a good arm and athleticism. But Wilson's size does limit him as it gives him trouble seeing throwing lanes in the pocket, which means he basically has to play out of the shotgun most snaps. He ran a 46-yard touchdown, but he had a WR wide open streaking down the field that he did not see that could have just as easily been a TD throw. He missed on 2 overthrows early in the game that also could have been TDs. The first was a bomb where he didn't reset his feet when he stepped up in the pocket. He looked sharp on the plays when he was on the rollout and throwing outside the pocket.

WR Nick Toon is a player from Wisconsin that I liked last year. He's only going to be a possession receiver at the next level because he has just average speed and burst, but he's a good receiver with good hands and ball skills. Only was targeted 2 times in this game, but caught both passes. His one deep catch, he showcased his limitations, unable to blow past the corner despite giving him the double move, although the corner did grab him. But he did a good job adjusting to the underthrow by Wilson and high point the ball. For the record, he is the son of former NY Jets WR Al Toon.

Wisconsin has 4 starting O-linemen with NFL potential. None better than OC Peter Konz, who they ran behind consistently. I counted 5 key blocks for Konz, and he hit his assignments 3 out of the 4 times he pulled. He has good size for a center (6-5/313) and looks like he can be one of those bigger centers that can help push the pile at the next level.

RG Kevin Zeitler had a good game with 3 key blocks. He did a lot of blocking downfield on the second level. He's now quite the power player that Wisconsin usually has, but he has good size (6-4/320), and can get position and shows some potential as a drive blocker.

Beside him is RT Josh Oglesby, who is probably the weakest link of the 4 prospects. He missed almost all of last year with an injury and was replaced by LT Ricky Wagner. Oglesby has size/strength potential (6-7/332), but is not the most dominant run blocker as a guy his size should be. Mainly that's because his hand use/technique is raw and inconsistent. Doesn't get good hand placement as a run blocker, which limits how much push he can get as a run blocker. Just can't really lock on.

Wagner is a better run blocker, but more of a short-area player. He doesn't have the athleticism/feet to play LT at the next level. He looks more like a guard/right tackle playing out of position. But the few times Wisconsin threw the ball, he was effective because he has a good punch on the edge despite average feet.

FB Bradie Ewing is a nice lead blocker that consistently hit his assignments. He keeps his feet moving upon contact, but lacks the power or pop at the point of attack that you'd prefer. But he also made a nice play on a catch where he got a 41-grab to put it down at the 1-yard line, and then gave a key block to get the TD.

RB Montee Ball is a relaly good RB prospect. He's got good balance, power, and quick out of his cuts. He can make guys miss in the open field, and shows ability to get yards after contact due to his balance. He's not someone that I would expect to run over most NFL defenders, and he only has average long speed, but he has a chance to be a workhorse RB despite splitting carries for the Badgers with sophomore James White.

On defense, the only notable performance was from CB Antonio Fenelus. He's small (5-8/195) and it shows in run support, but he gives effort despite his limtiations. Comfortable working in zone or man, and did a better job pressing at the line of scrimmage than you would expect from someone his size. He was targeted only twice on fade patterns to UNLV Phillip Payne, and did not give up a reception, but did break up one of the passes. Did a good job turning and locating the ball. He looks like someone that a Cover-2 team like Chicago or Indy would really like.

FS Aaron Henry was unimpressive to me. He has good size (6-0/210), but seemed to be going at 80% speed most of the game, and is not a good tackler. Struggled breaking down and wrapping up. But he looks to have good size, good speed, and range potential. Want to see if his limitations in run support can be made up for in pass coverage.

For UNLV, I mentioned Payne who has good size (6-3/205). He was targeted 9 times, but only made 4 grabs. Although 4 of those incompletions were bad throws, the other was a drop by him. He doesn't have great speed, didn't do a good job consistently to get off press from Fenelus, and lacks the speed to really make plays down the field. He has good length and can work in the redzone, but didn't always time his jumps well. He made a good grab on a fade in the back of the endzone when he was going up against the other CB not named Fenelus, stretching for the ball and showing the body control to get his feet down. Did very little after the catch, as I only counted 6 of his 29 yards coming there.'

Based off this one game, I would hand out these rough round grades for these prospects:

2nd RB Montee Ball, Wisconsin*
2nd OC Pete Konz, Wisconsin*
3rd-4th WR Nick Toon, Wisconsin
4th CB Antonio Fenelus, Wisconsin
4th OT Ricky Wagner, Wisconsin*
5th OG Kevin Zeitler, Wisconsin
6th QB Russell Wilson, Wisconsin
7th FS Aaron Henry, Wisconsin
7th OT Josh Oglesby, Wisconsin
7th-FA FB Bradie Ewing, Wisconsin
7th-FA WR Phillip Payne, UNLV

* underclassmen

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:53 pm 
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OK, I watched the Eastern Washington-Washington game from yesterday this afternoon.

The main reason I watched this game is because I'm still working out the kinks of how exactly I want to chart games this year.

I looked at EWU's QB Bo Levi Mitchell. In this game, he threw 69 passes, although I only accounted for 68 of them, so clearly I need some more work. But I broke down his passing in terms of short, medium, and deep passes. No real secret to what makes up each, any pass thrown under 10 yards is considered short, any pass between 10 and 19 yards is medium, and anything over 20 yards is considered deep.

EWU runs a spread system, and as one can imagine the majority of Mitchell's passes were short dink and dunk throws.

Short - 25 for 35 (71.4%), 174 yds (5.0 YPA), 76 YAC, 1 TD, 0 INT, 91.8 rtg, 3 poor throws, 3 drops
Medium - 10 for 20 (50%), 173 yds (8.7 YPA), 41 YAC, 1 TD, 1 INT, 75.6 rtg, 8 poor throws
Deep - 4 for 7 (57.1%), 127 yds (21.2 YPA), 4 YAC, 0 TD, 1 INT, 62.2 rtg, 5 poor throws, 1 drop

Tipped Balls: 1, Miscommunications: 1
Throw Aways: 4

Mitchell has a quick release, decent arm strength and accuracy and zip. But he struggled when he was pressured. His footwork wasn't great on the very rare occasion he worked under center. His lack of size and inconsistent touch and accuracy down the field means he will struggle playing in a pro-style offense in the pros. He struggled looking off underneath defenders, which led to one of his INTs.

I'm not sure if I'm going to do this consistently with all the QBs.

WR Brandon Kaufman (6-4/215) has good size, nice hands, and ball skills. He caught 10 of 20 passes thrown his way, with 8 of those throws being poor throws. He had 139 yards and 22 yards after the catch. He's slow off the line and lacks burst to make plays after the catch. Looks to be a 4.6-4.7 speed guy and unless he can star on ST, he won't stick in the pros. But he's a polished receiver and decent route-runner, just too slow to really be more than a No. 5 WR.

DT Renard Williams (6-1/300) flashes some burst upfield as a 1-gap tackle. He got pushed around a bit vs. the double team, and doesn't do a great job getting off blocks. He was key blocked 3 times. Otherwise, he didn't do much. He had 2 pressures. He looks like he can compete as a reserve 4-3 DT, but needs to do a better job disengaging from blocks.

For UW, RB Chris Polk is a junior that has good size, good vision, shows some quicks, but lacks ideal speed/burst to really be great. Reminds me a bit of a bigger version of Donald Brown. He has the size to be a feature back, but I don't think he's a dynamic threat. He doesn't do much in the passing game and with roughly 4.55 speed and average burst out of his cuts, I think he's more of a good backup rather than an ideal starter. Behind a good OL, I think he could be like a poor man's Ryan Grant. Had 125 rushing yards, and 34 yards after contact.

Senio Kelemete plays LT for the Huskies, but lacks the size (6-3/305) and athleticism to stick there in the pros. He flashed very good potential as a run blocker, showing power as a drive blocker, Can pull somewhat and was an effective cut blocker. They didn't run a lot behind him though, he had 3 key blocks and hit his downfield assignments 5 of 6 times. He gave up 1 pressure. His footwork/technique in pass protection were poor, as he doesn't have a good punch despite his upper body strength. He'll play guard in the pros.

NT Alameda Ta'amu is a powerful 3-4 nose tackle type that is hard to move off the ball. Has good power, but doesn't get good hand placement to be the most effective bull rusher. He has a good motor, decent range for his size (6-3/335). He had 1 TFL, 1 pressure, 1 QB hit, and was key blocked twice, although those key blocks came from him being out of position by poor recognition not because someone actually moved him. He has the potential to be a Sione Pouha type rather than the next Haloti Ngata.

CB Desmond Trufant
(6-0/180) has good athleticism, speed, but his technique and footwork need more work. He had the INT at the end of the game to seal the W, showing some ball skills to defend the jump ball. But he was covering Kaufman the entire game, and was getting beat because he struggled turning and locating throws down the field. He played in press coverage, but couldn't get the jam much. Opened his hips too early. He was targeted 19 times, gave up 9 receptions for 124 yards, had 1 INT, and 1 PD. He missed 1 tackle.

He has the potential to be a quality No. 2 corner, but he needs to polish his game, and may just wind up being a capable No.3

BTW, yes, he is Marcus Trufant's younger brother.

Here are the round grades:

2nd/3rd - DT Alameda Ta'amu, Washington
2nd/3rd - CB Desmond Trufant, Washington *
3rd/4th - RB Chris Polk, Washington *
5th/6th - OG Senio Kelemete, Washington
7th - DT Renard Williams, Eastern Washington
FA - WR Brandon Kaufman, Eastern Washington
FA - QB Bo Levi Mitchell, Eastern Washington

* underclassman

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:54 am 
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Watched the Michigan State-UNLV game, and the TCU-Baylor game.

Biggest names in these games are the two QBs.

Kirk Cousins is a player I like. I think he can be a good NFL starter. Is accurate, makes good decisions, and his arm is better than I recall it being last year. He generates most of it with his upper body and will need to work on his footwork to really get better there. He challenged downfield vs. UNLV, but did not have a lot of success. I charted him with 2 of 6 completions for 73 yards and 1 touchdown on deep throws, with 3 poor throws. He had no medium passes in the UNLV game, with him completing 16 of 17 passes for 148 yards and only 1 poor throw on his short passes, with 86 of those yards coming after the catch.

I need to see more from him to think he's a potential franchise QB, but as far as draft grades go I would give him a solid 2nd round grade with late 1st round potential. Right now, I have a similar grade on him that I had on guys like Jake Locker, Ryan Mallett, and Cam Newton last year.

In the TCU game, Robert Griffin shined with his vertical passing. He completed 6 of 7 deep passes for 230 yards with 2 touchdowns and only 1 poor throw. Griffin is a good prospect because he has a good arm, athleticism, and decent accuracy. But he's still very much a one-read QB at this point and really did not show the ability to go to his 2nd read vs. TCU. Granted, he really didn't have to since TCU's coverage was so bad. Also playing in the spread means he'll need work going from under center, as you can see his footwork on his drops isn't that good. But at this point, he's still a guy that stares down his 1st read and if not he basically scrambles. Right now, I think he's a mid-round developmental type that can probably be a good No. 2, but I question his potential to start. The good thing is he's only a junior, so he potentially has another 25 or so games to improve.

WR Kendall Wright (Baylor) had an excellent game vs. TCU. He caught 12 of 13 passes throw to him for 189 yards and 2 TDs with 45 yards of YAC, and his only missed throw was a poor throw by Griffin into coverage. Wright isn't that big (5-10/195) but he's quick and fast and looks like he can be a good No. 3 in the slot. He has the speed/burst to separate, but I think his hands aren't great and I didn't see a lot to like about his route-running as he seemed to be relying on his natural speed/burst to get away from TCU's corners. Obviously he had great success doing so, but he's an upside guy that needs more work.

For Cousins, his 2 top targets were B.J. Cunningham and Keshawn Martin. Martin is similar to Wright in that he's undersized (5-10/188) but very quick, fast and explosive. I like him slightly more than Wright because he seems a bit more polished. But unlike Wright, Martin did very little getting down the field, and only was thrown the ball 3 times vs. UNLV. He caught 2 for 28 yards with 23 of those yards coming after the catch.

Cunningham has good size (6-2/225), decent speed. He caught all 9 passes thrown to him for 128 yards, 37 YAC, and 1 touchdown. He showed good blocking ability as well, using his size well on the edge. He needs work on his route-running, but he looks like he can be a nice No. 2 WR potentially.

Defensively, Baylor has a nice DT prospect in Nicolas Jean-Baptiste. He has the size (6-2/315) to play NT in a 3-4 scheme, but he showed some things, able to penetrate a couple of times. He got off to a slow start, but things picked up as the game wore on. Finished the game with 2 hits, 1 run stuff, 2 tackles for loss, 1 pressure, and 1 pass defended. I think he's probably a backup/rotational guy at the next level, but I think he can be a good one. NJB's problem is he lacks great initial burst, although he was able to beat TCU's G/Cs with a swim move a couple of times.

For MSU, Jerel Worthy is a junior that has a lot of potential. He needs to improve his technique, but he has a very good first step and was very disruptive against UNLV's weak O-line. He finished the game with 1 blocked PAT, 1 stuff, 1 hit, 1 pressure, and a sack. He has 1st round potential.

Didn't see much from ILB Tank Carder after him having a very good game vs. Wisconsin last year in the Rose Bowl. He was asked to attack upfield a lot, but he looked undersized as a tackler and will need to get bigger and stronger. He's listed at 6-2/230, although I think he's probably bigger than that. He didn't do much in coverage all game and TCU's scheme didn't really want him to chase the ball, just penetrate upfield and try to blow up the play in the backfield. In this game he probably looked like a late round pick, but from past watching I know he's a potential mid-round guy. Until I see more from him in coverage, not sure he can be anything more than an average starter in the NFL.

Both teams have a good pair of RBs. MSU's Edwin Baker is probably the better of the two. He has a compact build (5-9/190), but showed good power, pad level and nice speed and burst. Not sure he's a homerun threat in the pros, but a guy that could be a potential starter behind a zone blocking line. He looks like he could be a potential 15-carry back that splits time.

TCU's Ed Wesley has a similar build (5-9/200), but his game is more speed. He's very quick, has good vision. But he got hurt early in the Baylor game when he landed on his shoulder wrong. He had 5 carries for 36 yards, none of which came after contact. I don't think he really is a power runner and seemingly shied from contact during the game, although it might have been because of that shoulder concern. He looks more like he can be a good change of pace back that has the speed get those long runs on the outside, but I question whether he has the toughness, durability and ability to run effective between the tackles.

Early Round Grades:

1st/2nd - QB Kirk Cousins, Michigan State
2nd - DT Jerel Worthy, Michigan State*
3rd - RB Edwin Baker, Michigan State*
3rd - RB Ed Wesley, TCU*
4th - WR B.J. Cunningham, Michigan State
4th - WR Kendall Wright, Baylor
4th - WR Keshawn Martin, Michigan State
5th - QB Robert Griffin III, Baylor*
5th/6th - ILB Tank Carder, TCU
5th/6th - DT Nicolas Jean-Baptiste, Baylor
7th/FA - OC Phillip Blake, Baylor
FA - CB/KR Greg McCoy, TCU
FA - P Anson Kelton, TCU

* underclassman

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Watched 2 UNC games, first vs. James Madison and then against Rutgers.

The big prospect for UNC is DE Quinton Coples. Coples has great size and athleticism at around 6-6/275. Last year, he was an emerging player thanks to the season-long loss of Robert Quinn. He's a guy that I think has a bright future as a 3-4 DE because he's more of a straight-line pass rusher that I think won't be a great edge rusher in a 4-3. But if he can improve his technique, then he can be a good 4-3 end as well. He flashed a really good bull rush in both games. My problem is that I question his motor. THere was a play vs. JMU where he stopped and watched the play when the QB broke out of the pocket on the opposite side of the field. There was no chance he would make the play, but at least job back down the field. Don't just stop cold on the field and watch the play that is happening 20 yards away. He was pretty quiet vs. Rutgers, and I'm not sure he's an impact pass rusher, just more of a complementary player. But he has big upside due to his athletic gifts and reminds me quite a bit of Da'Quan Bowers at this point.

Also, UNC has DE Donte Paige-Moss, who is a junior. I don't think he's a great fit as a potential 4-3 end, instead i think he might be a better fit as a 3-4 OLB because most of the plays he made in these two games were in pursuit as a run defender rather than as a pass rusher.

DT Tydreke Powell looks to be a much improved player. I thought he was overrated last year, just big. But he's developed a good swim move and dominated JMU's center in that game, and did a pretty good job vs. Rutgers interior linemen. He's a natural fit as a NT in a 4-3 scheme. I counted 6 run stuffs, 1 tackle for loss, and 3 pressures in the 2 games.

OLB Zack Brown also looked good in these games. He's listed at 6-2/230, and with 4.45 speed, and I'll believe it. He was flying around the field in both games and really had a very good game as a blitzer vs. Rutgers because of his speed and burst. I counted 2 pressures, 2 QB hits, and a sack vs. Rutgers, and he also had a sack vs. JMU.

Junior ILB Kevin Riddick I was less impressed with. He was really average vs. JMU and looked like he lacks instincts. He made some plays vs. Rutgers, but I think he's overrated as far as being a high pick. I think with his size, he's got potential as a starter, but probably an average one.

UNC RB Ryan Houston has good size (6-2/245) and power, but seems to be moving in slow motion on the field. He'll make some moves in the open field, but he's a pretty straight-line rusher that lacks vision and is a product of his blocking. I think he's a poor man's Brandon Jacobs potentially because of his size and power, but I don't think he can be a reliable option year to year.

WR Dwight Jones made some big plays in both games down the field. He has good size (6-4/225), but looks like he has pretty average speed and is a long strider. I'd guesstimate between 4.5 and 4.55, which means he can be a decent vertical receiver, but not a great one. I also think he has inconsistent ball skills and lets passes into his body too often. But in both games, he managed to catch 15 of 17 targets for 251 yards, 126 YAC, and 3 TDs.

Rutgers junior WR Mohamed Sanu had a productive game vs. UNC, catching 13 of 19 targets for 120 yards, 34 YAC, and 1 TD. A lot of the passes to him were short throws. He did have 2 drops, but he showed his athleticism making 2 one-handed grabs, including a TD grab vs. UNC. He's not a burner either, but has some burst and quickness. I think he could be a good possession receiver at the next level. But I need to see Rutgers use him better as a downfield option rather than a bunch of curls, slants, and outs that they did vs. UNC before I consider him a true potential No. 1 receiver.

Round Projections:

1st - DE Quinton Coples, North Carolina
1st/2nd - OLB Zack Brown, North Carolina
2nd - WR Mohamed Sanu, Rutgers*
2nd/3rd - WR Dwight Jones, North Carolina
3rd - OG Jonathan Cooper, North Carolina*
3rd - DT Tydreke Powell, North Carolina
3rd/4th - DE/OLB Donte Paige-Moss, North Carolina*
4th - ILB Kevin Reddick, North Carolina*
5th - RB Ryan Houston, North Carolina
6th/7th - OLB Manny Abreu, Rutgers
7th - CB Charles Brown, North Carolina
7th/FA - FB Devon Ramsay, North Carolina (tore his ACL vs. JMU)
7th/FA - OG Desmond Wynn, Rutgers
FA - SS Matt Merletti, North Carolina

* underclassman

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:30 am 
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Just watched the Arizona-Okie State.

WR Justin Blackmon (JR) reminds me a lot of T.O. Part of it is because he wears #81, but like T.O. Blackmon is not a true burner. He'll probably run in the 4.5-4.55 range, but he's very quick, a good athlete, and gets up to top speed quickly despite not being able to run by most NFL starting corners. He has good ball skills, hands, and is smooth and natural with the ball in his hands. He also reminds me of Michael Crabtree a bit for those same reasons. And I think that is around where his potential lies. At worst, he'll be about as good as Crabtree has been so far, which is pretty good but not a dynamic No. 1 threat. Or he could be as good as T.O. is which is an unguardable receiver. But I think I'll lean closer to Crabtree at this point. The key for Blackmon will be polishing up his route-running to increase his ability to separate from defenders. If he becomes a sharp route-runner, he'll be very hard to defend despite not having elite athleticism.

Arizona's top wideout Juron Criner sat out this game due to an appendectomy, which left QB Nick Foles without a proven option on the outside. This became a QB duel between him and OSU's Brandon Weeden.

This game illustrates why the spread offense confuses teams. The box score says Weeden competed 79% of his 53 passes, which looks really good. Foles on the other hand completed 72.5% of his 51 passes. But if you look closer, Weeden threw a ton of easy short throws.

Here's how they broke down on the short throws (less than 10 yards):

Weeden - 36 of 38 (94.7%) for 233 yards, 176 YAC, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 0 poor throws
Foles - 28 of 36 (77.8%) for 179 yards, 75 YAC, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 2 poor throws

Now let's look at combined medium and deep throws (10+ yards in the air):

Weeden - 5 for 14 (35.7%) for 138 yards, 63 YAC, 0 TDs, 1 INT, 4 poor throws, 1 drop
Foles - 8 for 12 (66.7%) for 208 yards, 54 YAC, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 1 poor throw, 0 drops

And without a 63-yard completion that included 49 yards of YAC, Weeden's numbers would be much worse on the medium/deep throws. His YPA would drop from 9.9 to 5.8 without that play on a broken coverage.

This is why I have Foles rated slightly higher than Weeden. It also doesn't help that Weeden turns 28 in a month. I don't really buy either guy as future starters, at least not immediately. And even if they do develop into starters down the road, they won't be any better than a Kyle Orton/Matt Cassel type. Foles doesn't have great anticipation and decision making and has a tendency to get happy feet in the pocket. But Weeden doesn't play under center, his footwork shows it, and doesn't really handle pressure all that well. And his accuracy was average at best when he had to throw the ball more than 10 yards.

But he'll finish this year completing like 70% of his passes or close to it, and people will automatically assume he's accurate and that's because the spread offense inflates completion percentage because probably close to 60% of the throws Weeden made in this game didn't go more than 3 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.

I think Weeden is smart enough to manage an NFL offense, but by the time he's comfortable and transitioned to the pro game, he'll probably be 31 or 32 years old. And by then, he'll probably just have like 5 more years as a decent backup before his career is over.

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:59 pm 
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Finally got around to watching the Boise State-Georgia game, as well as watched Boise State's game against Toledo from a few weeks ago.

Kellen Moore is a player I like, but he definitely is giong to have some major obstacles to overcome to be a starter in the NFL. Before, I thought the arm strength was a major obstacle, but I'm not so sure. I'm not sold on his arm, but I think his arm might be better than it looks on tape. Mainly because Moore always seems to be fading away on his throws. If he was to step up and step into his throws, I'm not sure that we would be questioning his arm strength. Not to say that he would be on the same plane as Matt Stafford or anything if he did, but at least he shows the arm strength that he can make most of the throws.

The concern I have is how much space he gets in the pocket. He plays in teh shotgun, and often drops back on 3 or 5-step drops even from there, which means that he is deep in the pocket. He needs this space because of his lack of size and ability to throw over the defense and through his line. He's just too short, and vs. UGA, when they got interior pressure he struggled. I've seen in the past that ability to slide and move to find those throwing lanes, but the question becomes can he do that in the much smaller pockets he will set in the pros? I don't know.

The one thing you like about Moore is that his accuracy, anticipation, and decision making is second to none. He definitely has the tools from the neck up to be an NFL QB. But the question will be whether his lack of physical tools will limit him to be a backup.

I think at best, he's a poor man's Drew Brees. And if the Saints picked him up, I would like his chances a lot more than I would if some other random team picked him up. Playing in a shotgun-heavy offense and watching and learning from Brees who also is a short, accurate QB that manages the pocket very well would be great for him.

And it's nice to see a QB throw the ball down the field. In the two games, Moore threw 25 passes beyond 10 yards, completing 72% of them for 313 yards, 4 TDs, and 2 INTs for a 120.4 passer rating.

For Boise State, I'm not sure why everyone is that high on OT Nate Potter. Potter is a nice player, but last year watching BSU, I saw him really struggle with speed rushers off the edge. And this year, while he seems to improve in pass protection, I don't think he has the size to be able to hold up at LT. His footwork and technique are nice, but nothing special where you think he can go up against quality speed rushers in the pros. And he doesn't do much as a run blocker in terms of getting push limit his potential. The player I would compare him to is a player like Sam Baker or a poor man's Duane Brown. I say Brown because he plays in a zone blocking scheme in Houston that I think Potter needs to be in to be an effective starter, but he's not as strong or athletic as Brown is. I think he can be developed into a starter at the next level, but I see him as a pass protecting RT.

Three other players stand for BSU: RB Doug Martin, S George Iloka, and DT Billy Winn. All three have legit NFL potential. Martin is a very good power runner despite not being the biggest (5-9/215). He has good balance, runs well behind his pads and consistently gets yards after contact. 63 of his 127 yards in the two games came after contact. He's not going to be drafted that high because of his lack of top speed, as he might be in that 4.57 range. I think his issue might be is that before the draft, he might try and lose some weight to add some speed to his game, and I think that would be a mistake. He needs to bulk up to be the best possible NFL player he is going to be. He'll never be an outside the tackles runner, as he is just so-so there, but between the tackles he is really solid, and putting on another 10 pounds could be a good career move.

Iloka is not a stud, but he has good size (6-3/215), decent speed, nice ball skills and showed the ability vs. Georgia to match up with a TE like Orson Charles. I think he is probably a better fit as a SS than a FS because I'm not sure he has the cover skills, awareness, or range to make a ton of plays in coverage, but I think he has the ability to be an above average to good starting safety in the league.

Billy Winn had a really great game vs. UGA. He was a player that had a really good game in the opener vs. VA Tech last year, but as the season wore on did not look as good. He didn't have a great game vs. Toledo, but he didn't really need to. Vs. Georgia, I counted 2.5 run stuffs, 1 tackle for loss, 3 pressures, and 1 sack. He looks like he can play both 3-technique in a 4-3 as well as 5-technique in a 3-4. I think he still needs some polish with his technique, but he flashes ability as a stack and shed player that you like in the 3-4, but may not have ideal size to play in that scheme (6-3/295).

Another Boise State player to keep an eye on is DE Shea McClellin. I think his potential is best as a 3-4 OLB. He has nice size (6-3/255), can rush the QB a bit with nice quickness, and comfortable playing in a 2-point stance. I project him as a player potentially like Rob Ninkovich for the Patriots if he can be developed.

Rating Boise State & Toledo's players by round:

2nd - DT Billy Winn, Boise State
3rd - S George Iloka, Boise State
4th - RB Doug Martin, Boise Stae
5th - QB Kellen Moore, Boise State
6th - WR Eric Page, Toledo*
6th - OLB Shea McClellin, Boise State
7th/FA - DE Tyrone Crawford, Boise State
FA - TE Kyle Efaw, Boise State
FA - RB Adonis Thomas, Toledo

* underclassman

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Okay, I watched a couple of games: Arizona-Stanford, Texas-BYU, Fresno State-Ole Miss.

Obviously, the biggest prospect in these games was Stanford QB Andrew Luck. It's no secret that Luck is a very talented QB. I liked the fact that in their offense, he throws downfield. Charted 32 passes for Luck vs. Arizona, and 14 of them went more than 10 yards in the air. His numbers on those throws:

8 for 14 (57.1%) for 204 yards (14.6 YPA), 70 YAC, 2 TD, 0 INT, 4 poor throws, 1 drop

I like Luck's accuracy, arm strength and ability to move in the pocket and extend the play. He's not perfect by any means, but he's really good in every area and it's just striking that you rarely see this type of polish in senior QBs, let alone juniors. It's really, really hard for me to see him not being the No. 1 pick, now that I've been unimpressed with Matt Barkley.

I've already discussed Nick Foles a bit, but even in this game where he had his best WR, it didn't really change my opinion of him. I still think he has the potential to be a Kyle Orton-esque starter. A guy that is good enough to start and compete in the league, but he's not a "winner" in the sense that he makes the players around him better. I just don't like his pocket presence (too stiff in the pocket), erratic accuracy, and his decision making. He's improved in terms of his decision making from last year, but he's a guy that I dont' see a reason for any team to try and build around. Worth developing, but he's a guy that I could see get bumped into the 2nd round because of the dearth of QBs behind guys like Luck, and he's really a 3rd/4th round prospect that need might drive up his stock.

His top receiver was WR Juron Criner, who is a talented receiver. I think he needs to polish up his route-running but I like his speed and burst and potential to separate if he can get better there. Criner has the complete package, 6-4/215, and probably clocks in the 4.48 range, but before I grade him as a true 1st round WR, I need to see him dominate games a little more. It's not necessarily his fault, but I would feel better if the QB was throwing the ball 34 times, he would get a bit more than 8 targets. I'd like to see that number at 12 or more. But he produced, catching 6 of 8 targets for 48 yards and 33 yards after the catch and a TD.

Stanford WR Chris Owusu is probably one of those guys that gets drafted higher than he should because of his potential. He's very fast, but he really struggled making grabs in traffic, and I don't think he has good hands or knows how to separate. He only caught 2 of 6 passes thrown his way, which I think is an indicator of how unreliable he probably will be. I'd compare him to a Devery Henderson that in the right offense could be a good complementary wide receiver, but probably nothing more than a No. 3 WR on most NFL teams.

For Stanford, they have two really good O-linemen. RG David DeCastro and LT Jonathan Martin are solid. DeCastro was excellent pulling, hitting his assignments 8 out of 10 times when he was asked to do that. What might keep him from being a rock-solid 1st round OG, is that he doesn't get as much push as a straight-ahead run blocker as I would like. But neither is Logan Mankins, and that's the type of player that DeCastro can potentially be. But I want to see him do a bit better as a straight-ahead run blocker before I'm ready to make that comparison.

Martin is talented, but he had a sloppy game. He missed too many assignments, 0 for 3 pulling, and had 2 penalties (clipping and a false start). He has the potential, but I think he needs to use his hands better and do a better job with his punch on the edge. Definitely has the tools to be a good starting LT at the next level, but at this point I don't see him as a 1st round guy that can come in right away and be a good starter.

BYU OT Matt Reynolds was very unimpressive in this game. He looked slow and sluggish and really struggled with his balance. Anytime you asked him to move he struggled. He was a player that I thought was decent last year as a junior that could have made a decent OG, and I think his lack of flexibility and range mean that may still be the case. But vs. Texas, he looked like a career backup/utility guy. Maybe he turns into a Tyson Clabo-type down the road as Clabo was a similar type coming out of school, but I don't see a ton of upside for Reynolds.

Ole Miss also has some decent OL prospects. LT Bradley Sowell has good size (6-7/315), but isn't athletic enough to play on the left side. He flashed potential as a drive blocker in this game, but didn't consistently get push off the snap, and needs to do a better job with his hand placmeent and bending his knees to get better there. But I saw flashes of potential when he was able to lock on and drive defenders down field, to make me think he could be a decent RT at the next level.

RT Bobby Massie looks the part with good size and long arms, and you see his athleticism, but his footwork and technique is a bit raw. He's only a junior, and probably needs another year to refine those things. But I think he can be a starter, but he might need another year of college and a year on the bench in the pros before he can be that guy.

Fresno State WR Devon Wylie almost took a punt back for six. He's not very big (5-10/185) but has good quickness and burst and makes some nifty moves after the catch. I dont' think he has great hands, but with his speed/burst, and ability after the catch working out of the slot, he certainly should be able to find a role in the pros as a poor man's Wes Welker.

The player that really stood out to me in that Ole Miss-FSU game was RB Robbie Rouse. He's only a junior and CBS Sports/NFL Draft Scout had him as a 35th rated junior RB in the country, but he's 8th int he country in rushing yards. Undersized guy (5-7/185), but has very good quickness, burst and vision. He runs hard for his size. Looks like he can be a stud third down back and is a player you might start to hear more about as the season wears on. He's the type of guy that in the right offense (zone blocking) he could be an Arian Foster-type.

Texas has a few nice defensive prospects as usual. S Kenny Vaccaro and DT Kheeston Randall are the guys I like the most. Vaccaro has a good combo of size, speed, and range and has the potential I think to be the next in line of a regular series of good Texas DBs that make it to the pros. Randall is probably just a run defender, but he holds up really well as a nose tackle at only 6-5/295. At that size, he probably is a better fit as a stack & shed 3-4 DE, but I think if he was to add another 10-15 pounds, he can also play the nose in that scheme. Won't be a stud, but I think he'll be a good rotation player in that scheme because he can play inside and outside.

Last year, I would have said Emmanuel Acho was better than Keenan Robinson as far as UT's linebackers go. But in this game, Robinson looked better. Acho has nice speed and range, but not sure he has great awareness or does a good job at the point of attack. He might make a decent 4-3 WLB. Robinson looks like he is a solid run defender in the middle of the field that can make a nice ILB in a 3-4 scheme.


Round Projections:
* underclassman

1st - QB Andrew Luck, Stanford*
2nd - OG David DeCastro, Stanford*
2nd - WR Juron Criner, Arizona
2nd - OT Jonathan Martin, Stanford*
2nd/3rd - DT Kheeston Randall, Texas
3rd - SS Kenny Vaccarro, Texas*
3rd - OT Bobby Massie, Ole Miss*
3rd - QB Nick Foles, Arizona
3rd - ILB Keenan Robinson, Texas
3rd/4th - DE/OLB Alex Okafor, Texas*
3rd/4th - WR Chris Owusu, Stanford
4th/5th - OLB Chase Thomas, Stanford*
4th - RB Robbie Rouse, Fresno State*
5th - RB Brandon Bolden, Ole Miss
5th - OLB Emmanuel Acho, Texas
5th - DT Logan Harrell, Fresno State
6th - CB Trevin Wade, Arizona
6th - FS Blake Gideon, Texas
6th - OT Matt Reynolds, BYU
6th - DE/OLB Kentrell Lockett, Ole Miss
7th - WR Devon Wylie, Fresno State
7th - DT Hebron Fangupo, BYU
7th - CB/FS Robert Golden, Arizona
7th - SS Delano Howell, Stanford
7th/FA - OC David Snow, Texas
7th/FA - OT Bradley Sowell, Ole Miss
FA - OT Bryce Harris, Fresno State
FA - FB Cody Johnson, Texas
FA - K Kevin Goessling, Fresno State
FA - DE/OLB Wayne Dorsey, Ole Miss
FA - FS Damien Jackson, Ole Miss

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:14 pm 
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I watched two Michigan games the past few days, once vs. Notre Dame, the other vs. San Diego State.

The biggest name on Michigan is QB Denard Robinson. BUt I have Robinson graded as a wide receiver, which is no surprise. He's listed at 5-11/195, and is just too small to play QB. The other problem he has is that his accuracy is poor, footwork sloppy, and his decision making is average at best. In these two games, almost all of his success as a passer came on jump ball throws, particularly vs. Notre Dame.

His lone receiver Junior Hemingway showed good ability on those passes vs. Notre Dame, but only had 1 catch vs. San Diego State. I like his size (6-1/220) and speed and ability to go and get the ball in those situations. I wonder with Hemingway, would he be a much better college WR if he had a better QB to throw him the ball.

But with Robinson, I think he's going to be a pro player similar to many past QBs turned WRs, like Antwaan Randle El, Brad Smith, Armanti Edwards, and Josh Cribbs. I think like those guys, first and foremost he'll have to be an effective return specialist. I think he has the speed and quickness to be good there, because he is very good in the open field and his speed and lateral burst allow him to sneak through creases and holes very well. I think he can be a decent package player a la Smith in that a creative team can use him on wildcat, and in the slot, but like all of those guys I think he'll struggle to be anything more than a 30-catch No. 3 wideout in the pros. He has the potential to be a bit like Randle El, but at this point I would think he's probably more likely to be another Smith. I have him graded as a 5th/6th round prospect for those reasons, but he probably gets drafted in the 3rd or 4th round because teams will like his athletic potential.

Other UM prospects include TE Kevin Koger. Koger I think can work as a No. 2 TE in the NFL, but I see more of the Michael Matthews type than the Justin Peelle type. Don't see him sticking early on in that role, and will have to work his way up from No. 3 guy to be a No. 2 tight end. Has nice blocking potential, but needs to polish up his hand use and footwork a bit more. And probably not as solid as he's listed at 6-4/255. I'd probably like to see him add another 10 pounds of muscle before I was confident he could stick long-term as a No. 2.

The best prospect on defense is NT Mike Martin. Martin doesn't have classic NT since (6-1/300), but he's a high motor guy with excellent strength. He dominated San Diego's center, not so much Notre Dame's but he is a guy that I think can make a very good No. 3 DT in the pros, as well as be a nice complementary starter. The player I would compare him to potentially is someone like a Justin Bannan, who can play all 3 interior spots in a 3-4, as well as be a capable 2-down run defender in a 4-3 as well. He's a mid-round pick, but I believe he can add depth in any scheme.

Michigan center Dave Molk is iMO their best prospect. Molk isn't ideally size (6-2/290), but he has good hands and is consistently able to get position. I think he'd struggle against power players like the NTs that litter the AFC, but for an NFC team I think he could make a quality starter. Particularly on a team that employs the zone blocking scheme because he moves very well laterally and down the field. He isn't a great prospect, but reminds me a bit of Eric Wood, but I think more athletic and mobile, and probably not as big and strong as Wood.

For Notre Dame, I was of course impressed with WR Michael Floyd. Always have been, but I still have yet to see Floyd play at a level where I'm confident he's going to be a good No. 1 receiver. I still think of him as a very good No. 2 guy. But his off-field issues, and the fact that he can be a bit of a prima donna and showboat on the field make me question whether he has the work ethic and character to rise to his full potential. The player I would compare him most to is Braylon Edwards in terms of what type of pro I think he will be. Clearly, a supremely talented player, but never really plays to the full extent of his potential on a consistent basis week to week and year to year.

Manti Te'o is a physically gifted prospect. I didn't like the fact that he missed a bunch of tackles and was caught out of position too often going against Robinson, particularly on the zone read. One of the problems is that traditionally when I scout prospects that are facing the zone read option, they'll make mistakes early in the game but then learn from them and do a better job later in the game. That was not the case with Te'o, who consistently bit on the running back. There were a few times where he and Robinson were in the hole together, and he got juked out of his shoes. I also don't think he's super aware in coverage. The player I would compare him to is Rey Maualuga, supremely physically gifted, but might not have the instincts and awareness to fully take advantage. I think Te'o has the skills to play ILB, MLB, or OLB in the pros, but he's probably best working as a 3-4 ILB or 4-3 OLB at first where he won't have to anchor a defense and then after a couple of years develop into a MLB, like Maualaga has done in Cincinnati.

I also really liked Harrison Smith for Notre Dame. He was the only player on ND's defense that could consistently tackle Robinson in the open field. He has good size for a safety (6-2/215), nice speed, and is a consistent tackler. I'm not sure he's a great cover man, but he also didn't look like he was poor, never being out of position in coverage, just unable to make plays. I think he has what it takes to be a solid starting strong safety in the pros.

Although there's probably a 2% chance he comes out, the prospect to keep an eye for ND is sophomore TE Tyler Eifert. Very good hands and body control, with good but not great speed. I'd estimate around 4.65-4.75 range. Made a lot of good grabs in traffic and has a real chance to be a very good TE at the next level. Undersized as an inline blocker and will need to pack on at least another 10 pounds before he can become decent there, but works well as an H-back and working in the slot.

For San Diego State, I really liked what I saw from QB Ryan Lindley early on. Showed very good accuracy and anticipation early in the game vs. Michigan. But then for whatever reason in the 3rd quarter his accuracy was very much off, and it's one of the reasons why he only completed 48% of his passes for the game. I'm guessing it's because SDSU was down and he started to press. He started to settle back down again in the 4th quarter, able to move the ball and score some points for SDSU. What I saw is a player that I like to compare to Aaron Rodgers in terms of his passing ability. He's not as athletic or mobile as Rodgers is. I think he has the quick release and arm strength to throw the ball well down field, showed flashes of that accuracy and anticipation to throw guys open on several throws. He struggled at times when he saw interior pressure and most of his earlier errant throws where such plays. But then again, as the game later progressed he was missing on throws where he wasn't under duress, overly leading WRs over the middle, underthrowing passes, or throwing the ball inside when he should have thrown outside and vice versa. I think like Rodgers, he's the type of guy that probabbly needs to sit a year or two before he becomes a starter, but I do think he has what it takes to be at least a Top 15 QB in the league, if not potentially a Top 10. And if he was like Rodgers and got to sit the bench for 3 years, I think he might have what it takes to be a Top 5 passer.

I want to see more of him before I get too much on that bandwagon, but he impressed me more with his accuracy and anticipation than either Kirk Cousins or Matt Barkley did. I haven't scouted Ryan Taneyhill or Landry Jones (this year), but right now he's my No. 2 rated QB. If he showed this much promise in his "bad" game, then I'm curious to what he'll look like when he plays well. I'm hoping to tape him this weekend at home vs. TCU, and probably won't watch the game until 2 weeks from now.

Two defensive prospects worth noting for SDSU. OLB Miles Burris was able to make a couple of plays vs. the run, to make me think he could be a solid backup LB in either a 3-4 or 4-3 at the next level. And while I didn't scout him, CB Larry Parker had a number of turnovers in this game. I think he's leading hte nation with 5 picks through 4 games, and he also has a couple of fumble recoveries. So next game, I'll definitely be on the lookout for him. But I think it's a good thing I didn't scout him vs. Michigan because their erratic passing game is probably not a good measuring stick for his ability.

Grading prospects by Round:
* underclassman

1st - WR Michael Floyd, Notre Dame
1st/2nd - QB Ryan Lindley, San Diego State
1st/2nd - LB Manti Te'o, Notre Dame*
2nd - TE Tyler Eifert, Notre Dame*
3rd - OC David Molk, Michigan
3rd - SS Harrison Smith, Notre Dame
4th - OLB Darius Fleming, Notre Dame
4th - DT Mike Martin, Michigan
5th - QB/WR Denard Robinson, Michigan*
7th - CB Robert Blanton, Notre Dame
7th - WR Junior Hemingway, Michigan
7th/FA - TE Kevin Koger, Michigan
7th/FA - OLB Miles Burris, San Diego State
7th/FA - P Brian Stahovich, San Diego State
FA - CB Troy Woolfork, Michigan
FA - CB Gary Gray, Notre Dame
FA - DT Jerome Long, San Diego State
FA - K David Ruffer, Notre Dame
FA - K Abel Perez, San Diego State

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:04 pm 
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Here are my round projections for every prospect I've graded so far this year. Some of these have changed slightly from my previous posts. Now this isn't my predictions on where guys will get drafted, but based off how I see them what sort of value they potentially offer in next year's draft...

* underclassman

QUARTERBACKS

1st - QB Andrew Luck, Stanford*
1st/2nd - QB Ryan Lindley, San Diego State
2nd - QB Kirk Cousins, Michigan State
2nd - QB Matt Barkley, USC*
3rd/4th - QB Nick Foles, Arizona
3rd/4th - QB Geno Smith, West Virginia*
4th/5th - QB Brock Osweiler, Arizona State*
5th - QB Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State
5th/6th - QB Russell Wilson, Wisconsin
5th/6th - QB Kellen Moore, Boise State
5th/6th - QB Robert Griffin, Baylor*
7th/FA - QB/TE Chris Relf, Mississippi State
FA - QB/WR Darron Thomas, Oregon*
FA - QB Jarrett Lee, LSU
FA - QB Bo Levi Mitchell, Eastern Washington

RUNNING BACKS

2nd - RB Lamar Miller, Miami FL*
2nd/3rd - RB Montee Ball, Wisconsin*
3rd - RB Doug Martin, Boise State
3rd - RB LaMichael James, Oregon*
3rd - RB Edwin Baker, Michigan State*
4th - RB Ed Wesley, TCU*
4th - RB Chris Polk, Washington*
4th - RB Marc Tyler, USC
4th/5th - RB Robbie Rouse, Fresno State*
5th - RB Davin Meggett, Maryland
5th/6th - RB Ryan Houston, North Carolina
5th/6th - RB Brandon Bolden, Ole Miss
6th - RB Duane Bennett, Minnesota
6th - RB Vick Ballard, Mississippi State
FA - RB Victor Anderson, Louisville
FA - RB Adonis Thomas, Toledo

FULLBACKS

4th/5th - FB James Stampley, LSU
7th - FB Bradie Ewing, Wisconsin
7th/FA - FB Devon Ramsay, North Carolina (torn ACL)
FA - FB Cody Johnson, Texas

WIDE RECEIVERS

1st - WR Justin Blackmon, Oklahoma State*
1st/2nd - WR Michael Floyd, Notre Dame
2nd - WR Juron Criner, Arizona
2nd/3rd - WR Mohamed Sanu, Rutgers*
3rd - WR Dwight Jones, North Carolina
3rd - WR Nick Toon, Wisconsin
3rd - WR Rueben Randle, LSU*
4th - WR B.J. Cunningham, Michigan State
4th - WR T.Y. Hilton, Florida International
4th - WR Kendall Wright, Baylor
4th - WR Chris Owusu, Stanford
4th - WR Keshawn Martin, Michigan State
4th/5th - WR Da'Jon McKnight, Minnesota
4th/5th - WR Tavarres King, Georgia*
5th - WR Jermaine Kearse, Washington
5th - WR Eric Page, Toledo*
5th - QB/WR Denard Robinson, Michigan*
7th - WR Junior Hemingway, Michigan
7th - WR Devon Wylie, Fresno State
7th/FA - WR Keith Nichol, Michigan State
7th/FA - WR Mike Willie, Arizona State
FA - WR LaRon Byrd, Miami FL
FA - WR Gerell Robinson, Arizona State
FA - WR Phillip Payne, UNLV
FA - WR Wes Kemp, Missouri
FA - WR Brandon Kaufman, Eastern Washington*

TIGHT ENDS

2nd - TE Tyler Eifert, Notre Dame*
2nd/3rd - TE DeAngelo Peterson, LSU
2nd/3rd - TE Orson Charles, Georgia*
4th - TE Michael Egnew, Missouri
4th - TE David Paulson, Oregon
6th - TE Josh Chichester, Louisville
6th/7th - TE Rhett Ellison, USC
6th/7th - TE Brian Linthicum, Michigan State
7th - TE Drake Dunsmore, Northwestern
7th/FA - TE Kevin Koger, Michigan
FA - TE Garrett Celek, Michigan State
FA - TE Eric Lair, Minnesota
FA - TE Kyle Efaw, Boise State

OFFENSIVE TACKLES

1st - OT Matt Kalil, USC*
2nd - OT Jonathan Martin, Stanford*
3rd - OT Rickey Wagner, Wisconsin*
3rd - OT Bobby Massie, Ole Miss*
4th - OT/OG Nate Potter, Boise State
4th - OT Troy Bergstrom, Utah
5th - OT Levy Adcock, Oklahoma State
6th - OT Matt Reynolds, BYU
6th - OT Josh Oglesby, Wisconsin
7th/FA - OT Al Netter, Northwestern
7th/FA - OT Bradley Sowell, Ole Miss
FA - OT Bryce Harris, Fresno State
FA - OT Don Barclay, West Virginia
FA - OT Mike Ryan, Connecticut
FA - OT Dan Hoch, Missouri

OFFENSIVE GUARDS

2nd - OG David DeCastro, Stanford*
3rd - OG/OT Cordy Glenn, Georgia
3rd - OG Jonathan Cooper, North Carolina*
3rd - OG Kelechi Osemele, Iowa State
4th - OG Brandon Washington, Miami FL*
4th - OG Kevin Zeitler, Wisconsin
4th/5th - OG Senio Kelemete, Washington
5th - OG Joel Foreman, Michigan State
7th/FA - OG Nathan Richman, Boston College
FA - OG Desmond Wynn, Rutgers

CENTERS

2nd - OC Peter Konz, Wisconsin*
3rd - OC David Molk, Michigan
3rd - OC Ben Jones, Georgia
3rd - OC Khaled Holmes, USC*
7th/FA - OC Grant Garner, Oklahoma State
7th/FA - OC Quentin Saulsberry, Mississippi State
7th/FA - OC Philip Blake, Baylor
7th/FA - OC David Snow, Texas
7th/FA - OC Ben Burkett, Northwestern
FA - OC Grant Gerhart, Arizona State
FA - OC Moe Petrus, Connecticut

DEFENSIVE TACKLES

1st/2nd - DT Kwame Geather, Georgia*
2nd - DT Jerel Worthy, Michigan State*
2nd - DT Michael Brockers, LSU*
2nd/3rd - DT DaJohn Harris, USC
2nd/3rd - DT Billy Winn, Boise State
2nd/3rd - DT Kheeston Randall, Texas
2nd/3rd - DT Alameda Ta'amu, Washington
3rd - DT Tydreke Powell, North Carolina
4th - DT Mike Martin, Michigan
4th - DT Kendall Reyes, Connecticut
5th - DT Nicolas Jean-Baptiste, Baylor
5th - DT Logan Harrell, Fresno State
5th/6th - DT/DE Dave Kruger, Utah*
7th - DT Christian Tupou, USC
7th - DT Renard Williams, Eastern Washington
7th - DT Kaleb Ramsey, Boston College
7th - DT Hebron Fangupo, BYU
7th/FA - DT DeAngelo Tyson, Georgia
FA - DT Jerome Long, San Diego State
FA - DT Terrell Resonno, Missouri

DEFENSIVE ENDS

1st - DE Quinton Coples, North Carolina
2nd - DE/OLB Nick Perry, USC*
2nd/3rd - DE/OLB Barkevious Mingo, LSU*
2nd/3rd - DE Vinny Curry, Marshall
3rd/4th - DE/OLB Donte Paige-Moss, North Carolina*
4th - DE/OLB Alex Okafor, Texas*
6th - DE/OLB Kentrell Lockett, Ole Miss
6th - DE/OLB Shea McClellin, Boise State
7th/FA - DE Brad Madison, Missouri*
7th/FA - DE Tyrone Crawford, Boise State
FA - DE Julian Miller, West Virginia
FA - DE Vince Browne, Northwestern
FA - DE/OLB Wayne Dorsey, Ole Miss

OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS

2nd - OLB Zach Brown, North Carolina
3rd - OLB Bruce Irvin, West Virginia
4th - OLB/SS Kenny Tate, Maryland
4th - OLB Darius Fleming, Notre Dame
4th/5th - OLB Tank Carder, TCU
4th/5th - OLB Emmanuel Acho, Texas
4th/5th - OLB Chase Thomas, Stanford*
5th/6th - OLB Cornelius Washington, Georgia*
6th - OLB Ramon Buchanan, Miami FL
7th - OLB Brandon Maye, Mississippi State
7th - OLB Josh Kaddu, Oregon
7th/FA - OLB Miles Burris, San Diego State
7th/FA - OLB Manny Abreu, Rutgers
FA - OLB Dexter Hyman, Louisville

INSIDE LINEBACKERS

1st/2nd - ILB Vontaze Burfict, Arizona State*
1st/2nd - ILB Manti Te'o, Notre Dame*
1st/2nd - ILB Luke Kuechly, Boston College*
3rd/4th - ILB Keenan Robinson, Texas
4th - ILB Kevin Reddick, North Carolina*
4th/5th - ILB Ryan Baker, LSU
4th/5th - ILB Chris Galippo, USC
5th - ILB Tanner Brock, TCU*

CORNERBACKS

1st/2nd - CB Morris Claiborne, LSU*
3rd/4th - CB Brandon McGee, Miami FL*
3rd/4th - CB Desmond Trufant, Washington*
3rd/4th - CB Brandon Boykin, Georgia
4th/5th - CB Antonio Fenelus, Wisconsin
5th/6th - CB Keith Tandy, West Virginia
6th - CB Troy Stoudermire, Minnesota
6th/7th - CB Trevin Wade, Arizona
7th - CB Robert Blanton, Notre Dame
7th - CB Charles Brown, North Carolina
7th - CB Leonard Johnson, Iowa State
7th/FA - CB Jordan Mabin, Northwestern
FA - CB Cameron Chism, Maryland
FA - CB Troy Woolfork, Michigan
FA - CB Gary Gray, Notre Dame
FA - CB Greg McElroy, TCU

SAFETIES

2nd - FS Vaughn Telemaque, Miami FL*
3rd - SS Kenny Vaccaro, Texas*
3rd - FS/SS George Iloka, Boise State
3rd - SS Harrison Smith, Notre Dame
3rd - FS/SS T.J. McDonald, USC*
3rd - FS/SS Brandon Taylor, LSU
4th - FS Markelle Martin, Oklahoma State
4th - FS John Boyett, Oregon*
4th - SS Eddie Pleasant, Oregon
5th - SS Charles Mitchell, Mississippi State
6th - FS Aaron Henry, Wisconsin
6th - FS Blake Gideon, Texas
7th - SS Delano Howell, Stanford
7th - FS/CB Robert Golden, Arizona
FA - FS Trenton Robinson, Michigan State
FA - FS Damien Jackson, Ole Miss
FA - SS Hakeem Smith, Louisvlle*
FA - SS Matt Merletti, North Carolina

SPECIALISTS

7th/FA - P Drew Butler, Georgia
7th/FA - K Blair Walsh, GEorgia
7th/FA - P Brian Stahovich, San Diego State
FA - P Brian Nortman, Wisconsin
FA - K David Ruffer, Notre Dame
FA - K Abel Perez, San Diego State
FA - K Grant Ressel, Missouri
FA - K Kevin Goessling, Fresno State
FA - P Anson Kelton, TCU

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:23 pm 
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Watched several games in the past 2 weeks. Here are the round projections for each position group.

* - indicates an underclassman
(!) - indicates I modified their round grade from my previous rankings (scroll up)


QUARTERBACKS

1st - QB Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M
4th/5th - QB Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State (!)
5th - QB Tyler Wilson, Arkansas*
7th - QB John Brantley, Florida
FA - QB Zach Collaros, Cincinnati
FA - QB G.J. Kinne, Tulsa
FA - QB Stephen Garcia, South Carolina
FA - QB B.J. Daniels, South Florida*

I really like Ryan Tannehill's accuracy and anticipation, which was significantly improved from last year, and given how limited his experience is (so far only 12 career starts), I think it points to his intangibles. He doesn't have quite the consistency to make me believe he's a Top 10 pick, but would be a solid mid first round guy at this point. Brandon Weeden's inability to throw downfield still bothers me, but he had a stronger showing on the intermediate throws after watching him a second time. Looks like a career backup that if he can get comfortable in a system, he can be an OK stopgap starter. But by the time that happens, he might already be 31 or 32 years old. John Brantley sort of reminds me of a stronger-armed Joey Harrington that I think he can be a competent No. 2 down the road, but he really struggled with his decision making and accuracy when he feels some pressure. Zach Collaros might be better suited to playing baseball than playing QB in the pros, as I think he's probably a better WR prospect than anything else.

RUNNING BACKS

2nd - RB Christine Michael, Texas A&M*
3rd/4th - RB Cyrus Gray, Texas A&M
3rd/4th - RB Ray Graham, Pittsburgh*
4th/5th - RB Jeff Demps, Florida
4th/5th - RB Chris Gainey, Florida
6th - RB Darrell Scott, South Florida*
6th/7th - RB Isaiah Pead, Cincinnati
7th/FA - RB Zach Brown, Pittsburgh

Really like Christine Michael's burst, vision, pad level. Not the biggest guy, and my only main concern for him is ball security because he doesn't always secure the ball when he gets on the second level and in traffic. But he has the makings of a really good starting RB because he's a complete runner and I think can be the same type of player at the next level as Ahmad Bradshaw. Cyrus Gray is a nice player that reminds me of Ryan Grant. He'll be solid in a zone blocking scheme, but I think his lack of speed and burst will limit him to being more in line with a good backup than a reliable starter. Ray Graham is another Pitt back that is really quick and agile, but doesn't run with the toughness and power to think he'll be more than a 3rd down back. Similar things can be said about Jeff Demps and Chris Rainey, although I think they are more speed guys than natural runners. They might be dynamic return threats at the next level and can occasionally add value on third downs on offense. Darell Scott is a powerful runner that reminds me of a poor man's LeGarrette Blount.

FULLBACKS

7th/FA - FB Taylor Gentry, N.C. State
FA - FB Jermaine Robertson, Arkansas State

WIDE RECEIVER

1st - WR Alshon Jeffery, South Carolina*
3rd - WR Jeff Fuller, Texas A&M
3rd/4th - WR Greg Childs, Arkansas
4th/5th - WR Marvin McNutt, Iowa
4th/5th - WR T.Y. Hilton, Florida International
5th - WR Joe Adams, Arkansas
5th/6th - WR Tavarres King, Georgia* (!)
6th - WR Jarius Wright, Arkansas
7th/FA - WR T.J. Graham, N.C. State
FA - WR D.J. Woods, Cincinnati

Alshon Jeffery has a lot of potential and his size makes him intriguing. Has the potential of a Brandon Marshall, but he's not as physical developed in the weight room as Marshall, and he'll have some issues separating at the next level unless he can polish up his route-running. I think he can be a No. 1 at the next level, but I'm not sure he has elite potential and may be a couple of years from really living up to that potential. Jeff Fuller is a solid possession receiver with good ball skills and hands, but also will struggle to separate at the next level and make plays and he's more like a chain-moving No. 2 than a guy that defenses will fear. Marvin McNutt is a decent prospect with good size, decent speed, but his hands and ball skills are iffy and he doesn't look like he'll be a reliable option. Probably like a Michael Jenkins that is a solid No. 3, but limited No. 2 guy at the next level.

TIGHT ENDS

3rd - TE Orson Charles, Georgia* (!)
7th - TE Brad Herman, Iowa
7th/FA - TE George Bryan, N.C. State

George Bryan is big and has nice hands, but has marginal speed, and doesn't really bring as much as a blocker as someone his size should. Unless he can improve as a blocker, he'll have a hard time sticking long-term in the pros since his upside to contribute on offense is limited due to his lack of speed.

OFFENSIVE TACKLES

2nd/3rd - OT Riley Reiff, Iowa*
3rd - OT Xavier Nixon, Florida*
3rd/4th - OT Markus Zusevics, Iowa
5th/6th - OT Matt McCants, UAB
6th - OT Levy Adcock, Oklahoma State (!)
FA - OT Tyler Holmes, UAB

Riley Reiff looked very promising to me a year ago, going up and competing well with a lot of top ends, but he might need another year at Iowa before he can start to really hit his stride. Needs to get stronger, and while he has nice hands and feet, he hasn't put them quite together to make me believe he's ready to be a starter at LT in the NFL right away. Xavier Nixon is a good athlete that needs to get bigger and stronger and work on his punch and hands, but he has potential to be a solid complementary starter at either tackle spot. But he's a developmental guy that will probably need a year or two before you can expect him to be able to contribute as a starter, particularly as a left tackle since his technique and hands are way too raw to be reliable there. Might be a guy like Winston Justice at the next level. Markus Zusevics is your classic, blue-collar Iowa lineman that has a good mean streak and can be an effective starter in a zone-blocking scheme. Matt McCants is raw, but has the tall frame, long arms and feet to be a developmental LT at the next level a couple of years down the road.

GUARDS

2nd - OG Cordy Glenn, Georgia (!)
2nd/3rd - OG Larry Warford, Kentucky*
3rd - OG Kevious Watkins, South Carolina
3rd/4th - OG Lucas Nix, Pittsburgh
7th - OG Chris Jacobson, Pittsburgh
7th - OG Jeremiah Warren, South Florida
7th - OG Alex Hoffman, Cincinnati

Cordy Glenn is miscast as a left tackle, but with his size and strength could be a solid Carl Nicks-esque guard if he continues to develop. He's more potential than substance at this point. Larry Warford is another big guy that also needs more polish and development. He needs to learn how to bend his knees and can be a bit slow-footed in pass protection, but with his size (6-3/330) he has upside worth developing as a run blocker. Not as dominant as you want in a player with his size/strength combo as a run blocker, but flashes potential worth developing. Rokevious Watkins plays right tackle for SC, but is too limited to play ther at the next level. He's more a position blocker than a pile mover that you would expect from a 6-4/320 guy, but he's consistent and should make a solid starter. Lucas Nix is a Harvey Dahl-esque guy that is a limited athlete, but does well with his mean streak when he's in a short area, and has OK feet given his past as a tackle. Chris Jacobson is an undersized guard that gets pushed around too much there, and probably will have to move to center to stick long-term in the pros, but you like his pop and could be a solid reserve guard/center at the next level if he develops. Jeremiah Warren is a big, physical run blocker that is a lumbering athlete that needs to improve his hand use, but his potential as a run blocker gives him a chance to stick as a backup. Alex Hoffman plays left tackle at Cincinnati, but is a good downfield blocker that flashes potential to be a solid backup in a zone blocking scheme.

CENTERS

7th - OC Grant Garner, Oklahoma State (!)

DEFENSIVE TACKLES

4th/5th - DT Travian Robertson, South Carolina
6th/7th - DT DeAngelo Tyson, Georgia (!)
7th - DT Mike Daniels, Iowa
7th - DT Jaye Howard, Florida
7th/FA - DT Vaughn Meatoga, Hawaii
7th/FA - DT Derek Wolfe, Cincinnati
7th/FA - DT Tony Jerod-Eddie, Texas A&M
FA - DT Chas Alexcih, Pittsburgh
FA - DT Kaniela Tuipulotu, Hawaii

Travian Robertson is a guy that can play DE in a 3-4 or DT in a 4-3 and help out a rotation, and shows enough as a nose tackle in passing situations and gets some penetration that he might have some ability to develop into a decent starter down the road. Mike Daniels impressed me as a junior, but he looks like he tried to bulk up a bit this year and lost a lot of his trademark quickness. Coupled with his limited repertoire of moves, he's just now become a body rather than a potential solid disruptive 4-3 tackle. Jaye Howard has good size, but he also have limited technique and moves, and is just a guy that might be able to develop down the road as a decent 3-4 end, but his length to impact is very long.

DEFENSIVE ENDS

1st - DE Devin Taylor, South Carolina*
3rd - DE Melvin Ingram, South Carolina
7th - DE Broderick Binns, Iowa
7th - DE Justin Francis, Rutgers

Devin Taylor looks like he's shown significant improvement from last year, with his first step and speed off the edge. With his tall frame (6-7/260), he looks like he could be a dynamic edge rusher at the next level. Some teams might want to move him to OLB, but he's a better fit as a DE since he's more comfortable playing on the line than in space, and despite his lanky frame, he does a nice job getting leverage vs. the run at the point of attack. Melvin Ingram is versatile, and because of his athleticism has the potential to play multiple positions at the next level. Right now he looks mostly like a DE at 6-2/270, but I think he might be a better fit playing 3-4 OLB and if he slims back down he could be an effective complementary pass rusher there. Broderick Binns has a good motor that flashes some ability as a bull rusher off the edge, but he's a guy that will make his name as a run defender in the Chauncey Davis mold rather than being an impact pass rusher. Justin Francis is a disruptive player that can also help out a rotation that might also have some potential to play as a DT in a 4-3 if he gets bigger and stronger than right now at 6-2/275.

OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS

3rd - OLB Sean Porter, Texas A&M*
3rd/4th - OLB Danny Trevathan, Kentucky
4th - OLB Khaseem Greene, Rutgers*
4th/5th - OLB Brandon Lindsey, Pittsburgh
6th - OLB Cornelius Washington, Georgia* (!)
FA - OLB Tyler Nielsen, Iowa
FA - OLB Dwayne Maddox, N.C. State
FA - OLB Demario Davis, Arkansas State

Sean Porter isn't quite Von Miller yet, but you see flashes of his burst off the edge, although he's undersized (6-2/230) and a bit too one-dimensional to think he's NFL ready right now. Danny Trevathan is undersized (6-0/230), but you like his speed and ability in coverage to stick as a WILL in a 4-3 scheme. Khaseem Greene is a converted safety that is fast and physical in pursuit, but doesn't have quite the instincts you love for a linebacker yet vs. the run. Brandon Lindsey is a decent pass rusher, but doesn't wow you with his first step and burst and doesn't really bend well to think he's anything more than a 3-5 sack guy at the next level unless he really develops better technique.

INSIDE LINEBACKERS

4th - ILB Jerry Franklin, Arkansas
5th - ILB Garrick Williams, Texas A&M
7th - ILB Audie Cole, N.C. State
7th - ILB J.K. Schaffer, Cincinnati
7th/FA - ILB Max Gruder, Pittsburgh
FA - ILB Corey Paredes, Hawaii

Jerry Franklin flashes ability as a run defender, but doesn't play with great instincts and looks like he'll struggle to be anything more than a 3-4 ILB at the next level. Garrick Williams also can contribute in a 3-4 inside, but he's not as big or physical as you want in a potential starter there.

CORNERBACKS

1st/2nd - CB Stephon Gilmore, South Carolina*
3rd - CB Brandon Boykin, Georgia (!)
4th/5th - CB Coryell Judie, Texas A&M
5th - CB Terrence Frederick, Texas A&M
6th/7th - CB Micah Hyde, Iowa*
7th/FA - CB Antwuan Reed, Pittsburgh
7th/FA - CB Shaun Prater, Iowa

Stephon Gilmore has good ball skills, speed, and hips and looks like he can definitely start and be a good corner at the next level. But might not be polished enough in all those areas to think he's got top-level corner potential. Micah Hyde and Shaun Prater look like solid zone corners but lack the speed and burst to be reliable man cover corners at the next level. Prater might need to bulk up and move to safety much like past Iowa corners: Amari Spievey and Charles Godfrey.

SAFETIES

2nd/3rd - FS Bacarri Rambo, Georgia*
3rd - FS Markelle Martin, Oklahoma State (!)
3rd/4th - SS Duke Ihenacho, San Jose State
4th/5th - SS Winston Guy, Kentucky
5th - SS DeVonte Hollomon, South Carolina*
6th/7th - SS Antonio Allen, South Carolina
7th/FA - SS Kelcie McCray, Arkansas State
FA - FS Tramain Thomas, Arkansas
FA - FS Jerrell Young, South Florida

Bacarri Rambo
has nice size, speed, and ball skills to think he can be an above average starting free safety like a Brodney Pool at the next level. Markelle Martin has the same type of build as Thomas DeCoud and should at least be as capable a starter as DeCoud that can make plays in coverage. Duke Ihenacho has enough coverage skills and ability in centerfield to think he can be a solid starter at either safety spot. Winston Guy is a good run-defending safety. Antonio Allen plays linebacker for South Carolina, but is miscast there and can add depth as a run-defending strong safety.

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"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:03 am 
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I watched the Michigan State-Ohio State and Clemson-Virginia Tech games from 4 weeks ago.

Not as high on Kirk Cousins as I was before. Still think he can be a good starter at the next level because he shows accuracy and anticipation, but he makes some bad decisions from time to time, and I'm think he's more in the Christian Ponder-sort of passer than a potential franchise guy. Think he is the type of guy that if you can give him a year or two to develop, he can be a solid starter, but not sure he has top level upside.

For Ohio State, this game was played before all of their suspended players came back, so really they didn't have many NFL prospects on the field. But junior DE John Simon stood out, flashing good burst and first step off the edge, and also was effective playing inside on passing downs. Not sure he is a guy that can be a consistent starter, but he's a guy that I think definitely can be a really good No. 3 DE that is a bigger, stronger, more athletic version of Kroy Biermann at worst. And in terms of the upper end of his potential, I think he can be a good starter that can give you 6-8 sacks as a complementary rusher.

LB Andrew Sweat is a bit undersized and lacks elite speed, but has pretty good speed, nose for the football, and does a nice job in pursuit and getting upfield. Think he can be a good backup and a competent stopgap starter down the road either as a weakside 4-3 OLB or a 3-4 inside linebacker. Probably the latter is the ideal scheme.

OC Mike Brewster was the best OSU prospect and in the past I was never a huge fan of Brewster, but he impressed me in this game with his solid footwork and technique. He's not Nick Mangold, and not really the type you want going up against top level 3-4 nose tackles, but I think he's big and strong enough to do a pretty good job against those types of guys and is a consistently solid run blocker and pass protector. Not an elite center, but a guy that I think has the potential to be among the Top 10 guys.

For Virginia Tech, was very unimpressed with Logan Thomas as a passer, and his poor play hurt my ability to assess other prospects in this game. WR Jarrett Boykin is a guy that was the go-to guy for Tyrod Taylor, but Thomas could not get him the ball. Boykin only had 3 catches for 10 yards by my count in this game, despite being targeted 7 times. I think he is a guy that can make a solid No. 3 receiver and potential complementary No. 2 down the road because he has solid hands and ball skills, but could not really get a chance to assess his speed/burst in this game.

RB David Wilson looked really sharp in this game. He played with better power and pad level than I recall seeing a year ago. He broke several tackles in this game, and by my count 67 of his 121 yards on 19 carries came after contact. I'm not sure he has great lateral burst or vision, and he fumbled in this game which I hear has been a concern of his throughout this year. His problem was that he was a bit too willing to leave his feet when he's running on the second level, and it led to his fumble in this game as a defender square him up as he was coming down from a hurdle. I think he has the potential to be a solid starter at the next level, but probably not a feature back. I would compare him to a slightly slower version of Felix Jones in that I think as a 15-touch guy he can be a solid No. 1 rusher, but he'd be ideally suited for playing on a team where he splits snaps.

On the other side of the field, Clemson also has a solid rusher in Andre Ellington, who like Wilson is a junior. Ellington has much better lateral burst and quickness out of his cuts to really bounce plays when he can get north and south, but Tech did an excellent job bottling him up so he could not really make any big runs in this game. The biggest issue for Ellington was he struggled catching the ball in this game, and is rarely used in pass protection. So while I think he has a fairly bright future as a change of pace runner at the next level, he may not be as reliable on third downs as other less dynamic runners.

For Virginia Tech, RT Blake DeChristopher is a player I've been scouting since he was a sophomore when some draft sites had him as one of the top-ranked tackles in the nation. He has never looked like anything more than an average mid-round prospect in all that time, and this game included. I see him as miscast as a tackle because he lacks ideal size and athleticism, but he has good mean streak, can move a bit and looks like he can be an effective player in a zone blocking scheme. But he'll have to move to guard, and I think he's probably more in line with a career backup than a potential starter. Maybe down the road, he polishes up his hands and technique well enough to be a decent stopgap starter, but in both of those areas he's not very good.

Beside him RG Jaymes Brooks looked a lot better. He has good strength, able to stalemate Clemson NT Brandon Thompson on several plays, and was consistently able to get his hands inside and lock onto teh defender. A better athlete and more effective pulling and blocking on the second level, he looks like he too can be a solid guard in a zone-blocking scheme. His problem is I'm not sure his footwork is great in pass protection and he's not that big (around 6-2/310) to really excel in a man-blocking scheme. But I think he has the potential to be a capable to good starter at the next level.

On defense, MLB Bruce Taylor is a player I've liked for Virginia Tech since last year. He's a really good run and hit linebacker that does his best work when he's working in pursuit and space. But he didn't look very instinctual in this game, and didn't seem like he was great working in coverage either. This makes me think he can be a capable complementary 4-3 WILL but would be overmatched as a 4-3 MIKE, at least right away. Perhaps he's a guy that a couple of years down the road he is able to move inside, but at this point I don't think he's that much better than a declining Mike Peterson. The good thing for Taylor is that he is only a junior and has another year to develop those instincts before he has to go pro.

CB Jayron Hosley has good ball skills when he's working in zone and can keep things in front of him, but there were several times in this game where he was in man coverage and had his back to the QB and did not do a good job turning and locating the ball. But I do like his athleticism and burst to be a good matchup in man coverage. He has the makings of a top-level corner, and I think is another solid Virginia Tech corner. But I'm not sure I see the sort of consistency that I saw in Brandon Flowers, and maybe he's more like DeAngelo Hall. I want to see a bit more discipline from him. Either way, I think he has the upside to be a solid No. 1 corner, but unless he develops that discipline, he may be more like Hall and really just a good No. 2 than a true blue No. 1. The biggest negative about his game is how poor a tackler he is. Rarely wraps up and will just lower the shoulder to deliver a hit, and never sees what he's hitting. Obviously at the end of the day these will be relatively minor concerns if Hosley has as many INTs in the pros as he does in college, but again it speaks to discipline which I think is lacking which is why I think he's more likely (at this point) to go the way of Hall instead of Flowers.

For Clemson, I already briefly mentioned Brandon Thompson, who I think is a good nose tackle prospect in a 4-3, but I've seen some draft sites and rankings put him as a potential Top 15 pick in this year's draft, and I don't see it. I didn't see it last year, when I thought his talent paled in comparison to Jarvis Jenkins (2nd round to the Redskins), and while I see a better player this year, not sure I see what i'd consider a 1st round pick, at least based off this one game. He has good strength, but his technique is limited and if he can't beat a guy off the snap or blow through him (which was the case when he faced Brooks at the 3-technique), then he's effectively neutralized. He did a much better job when he lined up at the nose and went against Tech's center who couldn't handle him. He had a good game, and I think has the potential to be a good starting DT if he can improve his technique and play with a more consistent motor, but to me he's a more of a Brodrick Bunkley than the Mike Patterson.

Andre Branch had a very productive game, but really didn't get going until the 4th qtr. when he could pin his ears back and get after Tech's QBs. He finished the game with 3 sacks, 2 TFLs, 2 stuffs, 1 forced fumble, and 1 QB hit. I think Branch has nice potential, but I wasn't wowed despite his stat line. He shows nice ability to bend at times when he's coming off the corner and got almost all of his sacks and pressure when he was able to use a rip or another move to get under the LT's pads and turn the corner. But he's not super big (6-4/255) and can get pushed around vs. the run when he's facing an O-lineman, and not a TE. So if he's going to be a 4-3 DE, I think he has to bulk up by at least another 10 pounds. In a wide stance his speed will be more effective, but he needs to play with better leverage and technique when he's not speed rushing. I think as is, he's a better 3-4 OLB than 4-3, assuming he does not add muscle. I think his upside is a little bit higher as a stand-up rusher because despite the ability to bend and dip the shoulder, I don't think he has a top-level first step. So if he plays in a 4-3, I think he's probably only a 5-sack guy at most that can be a solid complementary rusher, but not a guy that can reliably make plays. As a 3-4, I think his potential to be productive is alittle higher because he'll be lined up wide more often and his lack of elite first step won't be as big a deterrent, nor will his lack of elite pass rushing potential be as big a deterrent. There, I could see him as an Anthony Spencer type.

The best player on the field however was Clemson TE Dwayne Allen. Allen has good hands and ball skills, and fairly good speed although he's more of an intermediate threat than a deep threat. But because of his hands and ball skills he'll be able to make plays downfield despite not having elite speed. He reminds me of Alge Crumpler in terms of his bulk, size, and receiving ability. The difference is that Allen is not nearly as polished a blocker as Crumpler was. He has the size and flashes ability to be an effective position blocker in space, and also gets a lot of work as an H-back out of the backfield. But he struggles with his hand placement and bending his knees when he's working as an inline blocker and needs to get better there before he can really be trusted. But if he develops, he could be a solid two-way tight end sort of like Crumpler. Although I think he won't be as good a blocker as Crumpler was, I think he might have greater potential as a receiver because of the matchup problems he can create over the middle.

Projected Rounds:

* indicates an underclassman

1st - TE Dwayne Allen, Clemson*
1st - CB Jayron Hosley, Virginia Tech*
1st/2nd - OC Mike Brewster, Ohio State
2nd - DT Jerel Worthy, Michigan State*
2nd - DT Brandon Thompson, Clemson
2nd - QB Kirk Cousins, Michigan Stat
2nd - DE John Simon, Ohio State*
2nd/3rd - RB David Wilson, Virginia Tech*
3rd - ILB Bruce Taylor, Virginia Tech*
3rd - DE/OLB Andre Branch, Clemson
3rd/4th - WR B.J. Cunningham, Michigan State
4th - OG Jaymes Brooks, Virginia Tech
4th - RB Edwin Baker, Michigan State*
4th - OLB Andrew Sweat, Ohio State
4th - RB Andre Ellington, Clemson*
4th - FS/SS Rashard Hall, Clemson*
5th - FS Eddie Whitley, Virginia Tech
5th - WR Jarrett Boykin, Virginia Tech
6th - WR Keshawn Martin, Michigan State
6th/7th - OG/OT Blake DeChristopher, Virginia Tech
7th - OG Joel Foreman, Michigan State
7th - WR Keith Nichol, Michigan State
7th/FA - OG Antoine McClain, Clemson
7th/FA - FS Trenton Robinson, Michigan State
7th/FA - FB Chad Diehl, Clemson
7th/FA - TE Brian Linthicum, Michigan State
7th/FA - TE Garrett Celek, Michigan State
7th/FA - WR Danny Coale, Virginia Tech
FA - OT Landon Walker, Clemson
FA - OT J.B. Shugarts, Ohio State
FA - OG David Smith, Clemson
FA - OC Mason Cloy, Clemson

_________________
"Vincere scis, Hannibal, victoria uti nescis" -- Maharbal, 216 B.C.E.


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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:05 am 
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Well, I watched 2 Oklahoma games, vs. Texas and K-State. Then I watched two more Pitt games vs. Utah and UConn.

For Oklahoma, this was my first real chance to scout QB Landry Jones, and I have to say I wasn't overly impressed. Jones has NFL level tools, but nothing that IMO makes him stand out above what I would consider a 2nd round prospect. He has nice accuracy when he has time to throw, but he really struggled at various times in both games when he was pressured. His poor pocket presence and the fact that he plays in a shotgun-heavy offense hurt him when it comes to moving around the pocket and being able to make accurate throws and good decisions when he's pressured. Often in both games, he would simply throw the ball away. He's also troubled with the fact that he plays in a one-read offense. Basically he has one read, stares it down, waits for it to come open, and then throws it. And with his weapons that tends to work fairly well, but when that read isn't open, he throws it away, or simply will check it down to a RB or TE in the flat or over the middle. If he is ever asked to scan downfield to a second progression, then he never did it in either of these two games. Another problem is that despite only being in a one-read offense, I don't think he consistently showed the sort of anticipation I would like to see for someone with 2.5 years of experience.

I think he can be an effective NFL QB, but I don't see him being anything mroe than an above average starter. I would compare him to Blaine Gabbert, and while I was fairly high on Gabbert last year, because of the struggles he's shown during his rookie season, I might have overestimated his ability/potential. And so I would compare him to a downgraded Gabbert, that I think is good enough to be an effective starting NFL QB, but not the type of guy that I think I can win consistently with, comparable to a Matt Cassel, but not nearly the athlete and potentially less accurate/effective vertical passer.

I do like Ryan Broyles who to me is like a less explosive Percy Harvin. I like Broyles hands, ball skills, and body control. He's more quick than fast, and probably in terms of top-end speed, I'd probably say he's somewhere in the 4.48-4.52 range. But he does have nice burst and can accelerate quickly off the line. But he's going to have trouble beating the jam, and is going to need to play in spread system and probably in the slot the majority of the time. I think he'll be more of a chain mover than a big play maker at the next level. And in the right scheme that will be very effective, but in others he'll be underused.

The player I like the most on OU is OLB Travis Lewis. Lewis is a player that I saw too often get exposed in coverage, and that was not the case in either of these two games mainly because I don't think they asked him to drop very much. That is going to be his biggest obstacle at the next level. But Lewis is playing more instinctually and physically than I saw him at times last year, and the player I would compare him to is Keith Brooking. But the good Keith Brooking that has a good nose for the ball, willing to mix it up, and I think Lewis has better pop as a tackler than Brooking did. I think because of that, like Brooking, he'll work best as a WILL in a 4-3, but I think down the road can make an effective starting MLB in a 4-3 or ILB in a 3-4. I think he can be a productive NFL starter at multiple positions in multiple schemes that routinely makes a lot of tackles and occasional big plays when he's on his game. But he's probably going to need another good LB beside him.

I also like OLB Ronnell Lewis, who plays a combo DE/OLB spot in Oklahoma's scheme. I think Lewis has good first step, good straight-line burst off the edge, and plays well in space. I don't see him being a top-notch pass rusher at least not at first in the pros, but if he can improve his technique, I think he can be a solid two-way defender that can play the run and rush the QB effectively. He's probably more the type of guy that can get you 6 sacks rather than 10.

DE Frank Alexander was productive vs. Texas, with 3 sacks in that game. Alexander has a decent first step off the edge, but his speed won't be that effective vs. NFL-caliber tackles. He's also a guy that doesn't have great size or the frame to really get much bigger than he already is. Various sites report him as either 6-3 or 6-4, and somewhere between 255-262 pounds. At this point, I'd probably guess he's around 6-4/260, but I don't see him ever being able to get up to more than around 265-270 and still be able to move. He has decent technique, but unless he really improves it, he's just a rotational guy that I think can add depth, but probably is a career backup that probably only reliably gives you 2-4 sacks a year, and that's if he develops.

Texas safety Kenny Vaccaro is moving up in my eyes. He was matched up with Broyles quite a bit in the slot in that game, and while he doesn't have great hips, burst, or footwork to be a reliable option there at the next level, he should enough ability in man coverage that I don't think he'd be some liability there. He is Texas SS, but I think he'll make a fairly nice transition to FS in many schemes because I think his potential as a cover guy is high. I would compare him to Nick Collins, but I'm not sure he has the ball skills of a Collins, so maybe a better comparison is former UT safety Michael Huff, although his speed is said to be in the 4.5 range unlike Huff's which is a high 4.3.

Really nobody stood out for K-State. CB David Garrett is the only senior prospect that I saw that was draftable. Garrett is a player that stood out to me a couple of times with his ball skills last year. He's undersized (5-8/175) but has good speed and burst, and while I think his size will hurt him in the matchup department, he plays tough, is very willing in run support, and is one of those guys that manages to stick in the pros despite not looking at all like an NFL player.

For Pitt, losing RB Ray Graham was a major loss. He tore his ACL on his 2nd carry vs. UConn. It'll be interesting to see if he returns for this senior year, because he was having the type of year where he could have probably been a 3rd/4th round pick this April, and it's going to be hard for him to improve that stock even if he has a healthy year next year. Replacing him is Wisconsin transfer RB Zach Brown. Brown is a nice prospect that has good straight-line speed and is a nice north-south runner, but he doesn't have great shiftiness, lateral quickness, or vision. But right now he's a potential borderline late 7th/undrafted prospect, and if he can finish the year strong then he might be able to become a draftable prospect. The best trait about Brown might be his hands, and while I don't see him having that bright a future as a runner at the next level, I do think he can stick in the pros potentially as a 3rd down back and special teams player sort of like a Mewelde Moore.

Right now, Pitt's best pro prospect is OLB Brandon Lindsey. But Lindsey really did next to nothing vs. UConn, after a solid showing (3 pressures, 3 QB Hits) vs. Utah. The problem with Lindsey is that he's fairly one-dimensional pass rusher that has good straight-line speed, but much of his success vs. Utah came when he was unblocked off the edge. He tends to try and run around blocks too much which is bad for a pass rusher unless they have blazing speed, which he does not have. The other problem I have is that he is a pretty underwhelming tackler, and I don't know if he's going to be a guy that can reliably make enough plays on 1st and 2nd down. I think he does have some potential worth developing as a pass rusher, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if he completely washes out of the league because he can't get on the field early in his career.

For UConn, DT Kendall Reyes is a nice prospect, but I haven't seen enough out of him to really wow me. I know Todd McShay has him as his 24th overall prospect. But I just don't see enough plays made by Reyes to think that highly of him. I think he's a good run defender that can hold the point and get off blocks. I think he has decent range and ability as a disruptor, but he doesn't really show me much to think he can be an impact pass rusher. I think he's a guy that can be a solid complementary starter, but even then I don't see him becoming that player until 2-3 years down the road.

OT Mike Ryan is a pretty massive guy (6-5/335) but doesn't have the feet, athleticism, or technique to stay outside in the pros. He might be able to get by at guard because of his limitations in pass protection. The problem is that Ryan doesn't really move the pile or play with the power you'd want with a player his size, and so he might just be a position blocker and be no more effective a run blocker than someone who was 315 pounds. But he stands a decent shot at filling out someone's depth chart as a combo guard/tackle.

I've heard reports that Utah NT Star Lotulelei will go pro this year. If so, then he should make a nice developmental 3-4 nose tackle like several Utah predecessors. Pretty much every Utah nose tackle of Polynesian descent since 2002 has gotten a chance in the NFL: Ma'ake Kemoeatu (2002), Lauvale Sape (2003), Sione Pouha (2005), Steve Fifita (2006), Paul Soliai(2007), Kelly Talavou (2007) to mixed results. Lotulelei looks like he moves well for his size, with a decent first step and shows power to press and collapse the pocket. But I need to see him learn to use his hands better, and he seemed more effective when he was lined up over the guard than he was when he was over teh center like most NFL teams will want with a player his size (6-3/325). Like many of those others that have made it in the pros, I do think it'll take him some time before he can be more than a backup and start to push for a starting spot.

Projected Rounds

* underclassman

1st/2nd - OLB Travis Lewis, Oklahoma
2nd - WR Ryan Broyles, Oklahoma
2nd - QB Landry Jones, Oklahoma*
2nd - SS Kenny Vaccaro, Texas*
2nd - OLB Ronnell Lewis, Oklahoma*
3rd - ILB Keenan Robinson, Texas
3rd/4th - DT Kheeston Randall, Texas
4th - DE/OLB Alex Okafor, Texas*
4th - OLB Emmanuel Acho, Texas
4th - RB Ray Graham, PIttsburgh* (torn ACL)
4th/5th - OLB Arthur Brown, Kansas State*
4th/5th - CB Jamell Fleming, Oklahoma
5th - FB Braden Wilson, Kansas State*
5th - DT Star Lotulelei, Utah*
5th - OLB Brandon Lindsey, Pittsburgh
5th - DE Frank Alexander, Oklahoma
5th - OT Tony Cullen, Utah
5th - OT Tony Bergstrom, Utah
7th - CB David Garrett, Kansas State
7th/FA - FS Blake Gideon, Texas
7th/FA - DE/DT Dave Kruger, Utah*
FA - FS Tysyn Hartman, Kansas State
FA - CB Antwuan Reed, Pittsburgh
FA - RB Zach Brown, Pittsburgh
FA - OT Mike Ryan, Connecticut
FA - DT Chase Alexcih, Pittsburgh
FA - ILB Max Gruder, Pittsburgh
FA - OC/OG David Snow, Texas
FA - FB Cody Johnson, Texas
FA - OC Moe Petrus, Connecticut

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:21 pm 
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I watched a number of games in the past week or so, including Cal-USC, Cal-Oregon, USC-Colorado, Stanford-Colorado, and Colorado-Washington.

First off, I want to say that while I mentioned earlier that I wasn't a huge fan of Matt Barkley before, I have since watching him in the two games I saw. Unfortunately, I did not get to tape and review the USC-Stanford game because it did not show in my area, but maybe after the season I might take a look at it. But I definitely think Andrew Luck is the best QB in the nation. His combo of size, arm strength, and athleticism is rock-solid and I think the John Elway comparisons make a lot of sense. I would compare him to Aaron Rodgers, but I think Rodgers is a bit more fluid than Andrew is and I think Luck is more of a bull than Rodgers is. Rodgers can get downhill and bring 240 pounds like a train. But Barkley has been rising in my eyes, and I think he's definitely franchise QB material. I think Matt Ryan is a good comparison. I think his decision making is really solid, and unlike the first few games I saw this year, I saw him actually make throws downfield vs. Cal and Colorado. Now he's not a great vertical passer as he has to rely on putting a lot of air under the ball and allowing his receivers (particularly Robert Woods) to make plays on the ball, but he at least has potential to get better because every now and then he'll make a money throw 30 or 40 yards downfield.

Combined in the Colorado & Cal games, I saw that he completed:

Medium Passes (10-19 yards in the air): 6 of 12 (50%) for 69 yards (5.8 YPA), 0 YAC, 1 TD, 0 INT, 4 poor throws, 1 drop, 1 throwaway
Deep Passes (20+ air yards): 6 of 21 (28.6%) for 188 yards (9.0 YPA), 17 YAC, 5 TD, 0 INT, 10 poor throws, 1 drop, 1 miscommuniation, 1 throwaway

Those are wow numbers, but on his intermediate throws he showed good anticipation, and accuracy for the most part. But he's probably going to need to play in a dink and dunk, spread attack early in his career. I think there are some similarities to Mark Sanchez, but I think Sanchez's arm might be slightly stronger and Sanchez is definitely more athletic/mobile. But Barkley shows some ability to move in and outside the pocket, although he'll never be a guy that makes a lot of plays with his legs (like Ryan), and he doesn't have great zip on his throws, but I think he's definitely capable of making all of the throws.

I'm starting to see Barkley as a solid Top 10 QB, and if I can see another really solid game against a good defense (perhaps in the bowl), then I might give him an 8 grade. Right now, I have Luck graded as a 8.9, with 9 being the highest mark you can receive. Currently, I have Barkley as a 7.8. Last year, Blaine Gabbert was my top graded QB at 7.2.


While my grade of Barkley has gone up, my grade of USC OT Matt Kalil is going down. I'm just not sure he's an elite left tackle at the next level. My biggest beef with Kalil is that on the few occasions he does use a kick-slide in pass protection, his feet don't look that fluid or quick, and he doesn't do a great job staying square. I also don't like the fact that his arm length seems below average. Now what he does do well is that he keeps his hands high and tight and he shows a pretty good punch on the edge, but I'm not sure he has the sort of feet and arm length that you think is going to match up well against elite speed rushers. Now granted, arm length isn't everything and the fact that he is 6-6 and short-armed means he might still have fairly long arms, they just look short, but the feet bother me more than anything. It's probably something I'll have to keep my eyes on during the Combine. But I'm starting to think he's a good LT, that's closer to being the next Joe Staley rather than the next Joe Thomas. He's definitely still a 1st round pick in my eyes, but maybe not the slam dunk Top 5 pick that many are making him out to be. If I was going to bet money on what kind of player he becomes, I would probably say Jordan Gross.

I do like USC center Khaled Holmes. He's a junior like Kalil and Barkley, and probably should come back for another year, but he doesn't have to. He reminds me of Andre Gurode, with a similar frame, long arms, and potential as a run blocker. Holmes is not a good snapper (I think this is his first year at center), but like Gurode I think might need some time before he can really hammer down that position. Gurode didn't really nail down the center spot for the Cowboys until his 5th season in the league. He needs more polish, but I think he can come into the league compete at guard, and then eventually transition to center once he learns to use his hands better. He could be a boom/bust prospect if he doesn't develop, but should at least be a solid to good guard and decent center.

Ryan Miller, Colorado's guard, is similar to Garrett Reynolds in that he might be too tall to effectively play the position. When I saw Miller last year, I liked his athleticism, technique and power despite the fact that he was a bit too tall (sort like his teammate Nate Solder), but this year I don't see those things. They flash from time to time, but not consistently enough. And I'm not sure moving him to RT would work better since I don't see the footwork to think he can be comfortable on an island. He might be a guy that will need some time to develop on the bench before he becomes a starter, and may not be the type of guy you want blocking against top competition, but could be a decent starter.

Outside Miller, Colorado's best two prospects are RB Rodney Stewart and WR Toney Clemons, but I'd be surprised if either get drafted. Stewart is small (5-7/176) and reminds me of LaRod Stephens-Howling. But I do think Stewart is a better runner than LSH was coming out of Pitt a few years back, but LSH has better speed and burst which has allowed him to stick as a KO returner, something I'm not sure Stewart will be able to do competently. But Stewart has good hands, does a nice job on screens, and could be an OK No. 3/third down back for a zone blocking scheme.

Clemons has nice size (6-2/205) and flashes some quickness, but has only average speed and burst and will have a tough time separating. He also doesn't show the type of toughness to go over the middle or make grabs in traffic like you'd like to see with a guy his size. But he has decent hands, flashing decent ball skills, and body control to make you think that he could stick as a No. 4/5 WR and on special teams and add some depth, but he won't be a consistent factor on offense.

Cal WR Marvin Jones is in a similar boat. Jones lacks ideal speed/burst, but has really good hands and ball skills, although he'll drop a few on occasion due to poor concentration. But he'll flash the sort of ability and potential to think he could be a nice route-runner at the next level. He'll never be a playmaker because he doesn't have that extra gear to make plays after the catch, run by corners, or really get great separation, but has the sort of reliable hands that can help move the chains. If he can improve his route-running, then he could be a T.J. Houshmandzadeh-esque No. 2 and chain mover. but more likely, he's probably a No. 3 guy that will give you decent production, but never wow you.

I like what I see from Stanford TE Coby Fleener. He has good hands, ball skills and seems to be a nice reliable option down the field. But he doesn't have elite speed and is a fairly marginal blocker. The type of player I think he could be is a player somewhere between Tony Scheffler and Greg Olsen in that he can be a productive starter in a pass-centric offense, but may not be the guy that consistently scares you.

USC TE Rhett Ellison is a nice backup option because he is a competent inline blocker, can also work at H-back and fullback as well, and has pretty solid hands as an outlet receiver. He is not a guy that is going to be a major option as a starter, but can add depth as a versatile No. 2 guy that can potentially give you 30 or so catches in the right offense with enough reps.

Cal TE Anthony Miller is a guy that will live and die by his blocking ability. He has the size you like there, but he still needs some more polish. He has solid, reliable hands, but his speed, burst are fairly marginal. The type of NFL player he'll likely be is the guy that Alge Crumpler has been since he left Atlanta, which is a blocker first, a receiver a distant second.

Cal has a couple of solid prospects in their front 7, but nobody that wows you. ILB D.J. Holt is a big physical run stuffer, and I think he has pretty good speed and may run well in the Combine. But the problem is that once you get him in space, he doesn't take great angles and won't make many plays outside the hashmarks. The other issue is that he doesn't do a good job taking on and shedding blocks at the point of attack. He has the potential to be a physical run defender in a 3-4 scheme, but he'll definitely need to play with a more rangy and instinctual MLB early on.

Mychal Hendricks is a good run and hit linebacker that has good straight-line burst and speed, but he struggles too a bit at the point of attack. He played some OLB vs. Oregon, and he really did a poor job setting the edge a number of times in that game which allowed LaMichael James & Co. to break some big runs outside. He did a much better job when he was at ILB vs. USC and beside a bigger, run stuffer that will allow him to flow to the ball and use his speed/burst to get upfield, he can be a solid complementary starter.

They also have a pair of DEs in Trevor Guyton and Ernest Owusu. Guyton is more of your classic 3-4 DE with his size (6-3/290) and has decent upfield quickness and good power. He's probably a guy that can add some depth at the next level rather than be a starter. Owusu is more of your pass rusher and is a bit undersized (6-4/270) for the 3-4 because he gets pushed around. They do an odd thing in their 3-4 where they will stagger Guyton & Owusu a yard or two off the line of scrimmage. Owusu usually plays more of a 3-technique and can be 1-2 yards off the ball. But I think he could make a nice transition to a 4-3 left end because he plays with nice power and shows pretty good athleticism when you get him in space.

Cal P Bryan Anger is also a good prospect, flashing a big leg and good hangtime. He needs to be more consistent, but he has good potential to be one of the better punters in the NFL.

USC RB Marc Tyler is out of the year with a dislocated shoulder, which he injured vs. Cal. He's a guy that reminds me a bit of Matt Forte, although he's not quite as explosive in and out of his cuts as Forte is. But then again, Forte wasn't super explosive when he played at Tulane, and lose some weight (about 15 pounds) to get that extra gear. Tyler is about 230 and a similar weight loss certainly could help him. I like Tyler's craving for contact and he can be a good runner when you get him north and south, but struggles when he's going east and west despite having nice quickness and balance. He's a guy that unless he loses that weight, I think he's a complementary back as opposed to a starter. Probably like James Starks, where he can be productive, but won't be reliable week in and week out, which was the way Forte has been at various times during his career too.

DE Nick Perry is a prospect I like. He is a solid bull rusher that has a good first step that needs some more work, but he has potential to be a good edge rusher because of his first step. He's a guy that could probably play in either a 4-3 or 3-4, although he's probably another 2-3 years away from really reaching his potential in either scheme. But he has the potential to be a 6-10 sack guy in either scheme if he can improve his hands, and learn how to disengage from the blocker when he doesn't win with his first step.

Projected Rounds for selected prospects.

1st - QB Andrew Luck, Stanford*
1st - QB Matt Barkley, Stanford*
1st - OG David DeCastro, Stanford*
1st - OT Matt Kalil, Stanford*
1st - DE/OLB Nick Perry, USC*
2nd - OT Jonathan Martin, Stanford*
2nd - DT Alameda Ta'amu, Washington
2nd - TE Coby Fleener, Stanford
3rd - CB Cliff harris, Oregon*
3rd - ILB D.J. Holt, California
3rd - RB Chris Polk, Washington*
3rd - FS T.J. McDonald, USC*
3rd/4th - RB Marc Tyler, USC
3rd/4th - ILB Mychal Hendricks, California
3rd/4th - DT DaJohn Harris, USC
4th - RB LaMichael James, Oregon
4th - FS John Boyett, Oregon*
4th - CB Desmond Trufant, Washington*
4th - SS Eddie Pleasant, Oregon
4th - DE Ernest Owusu, California
4th - OLB Chase Thomas, Stanford*
4th - WR Marvin Jones, California
4th - TE David Paulson, Oregon
4th/5th - OG Ryan Miller, Colorado
4th/5th - WR Jermaine Kearse, Washington
5th - DE Trevor Guyton, California
5th - ILB Chris Galippo, USC
5th/6th - RB Kenjon Barner, Oregon*
6th - OG Senio Kelemete, Washington
6th - SS Delano Howell, Stanford
6th - TE Anthony Miller, California
6th - WR Chris Owusu, Stanford
6th - OT Mitchell Schwartz, California
6th - SS Sean Cattouse, California
6th - TE Rhett Ellison, USC
6th/7th - OLB Josh Kaddu, Oregon
7th - DT Christian Tupou, USC
7th/FA - P Bryan Anger, California
7th/FA - RB Rodney Stewart, Colorado
FA - WR Toney Clemons, Colorado
FA - QB/WR Darron Thomas, Oregon
FA - WR Logan Gray, Colorado

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:33 pm 
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I typed a buuuunch the other day, but don’t have the steam for that so I’ll summarize more. Bottom line, the Clemson game was VT egg laid for the season, so it would have been tough to gather an appropriate analysis from that game, esp anybody on O. You gotta watch VT/GT tonight on espn, its basically an ACC semi for the coastal. Last 6 seasons this game matchup has determined the coastal winner. To be noted, VT has been minus 6 starters on D for about a month now. Yet......literally only giving up 6 more total yards per game, with 6 starters out...Bud Foster remains Yoda Flame of CFB D. However, that cut blocking nonsense flex wishbone it a bastard to prepare for. VT D is mainly reds and sophs, so you count the youngness and injuries, +1 GT pregame I would say. To me it three things, who starts well being the most critical, the VT offense putting up the points they should and as alwasys...turnovers.

Logan Thomas. Well you’ve just gotta hit reset on this kid from the CU game. TOTALLY different animal now with some exp, esp considering CU was his first big time opponent. At 6’6, all throws are available, and he’s gotten damn good at the deep ball. At 250 lbs, he pretty much trucks a few defenders each game in either 3rd and 2, or goaline. I’ve never seen a QB on planet earth be this physical running short yardage, but he’s so damn big and athletic the defender is usually the one hurting after. IMHO, this kid is a future number 1 nfl draft pick, it might be 2 more years out but I pretty confident on this.

David Wilson. The hardest running 205 lbs RB I’ve seen in college in quite some time. Breaks more tackles than an RB that size I can remember. Has legit 4.3 speed, but can actually run between the tackles. When he flashes his speed, you think of a Bush. When he breaks tackles at the same time, along with good pad level, I don’t know who to compare him to then. I’m not sure he goes pro or not, but he leads the country in yards. Has has some ridiculous streach of running for between 125-140 yards per game almost ALL season. I’m feeling a breakout game tonight, as dude is due for a 200+ game any week now. We haven’t needed that with the passing game doing so well. Come draft time, they will LOVE this kid. Wears a tie to class, in college. Can do 7 backflips from a standstill. ALL-American triple jumper just this past spring. Caught a rabbit with his bare hands in practice. Literally ran up the side of the basketball colliseum, which is some ridiculous angle to attempt. ETC... Kid is just different, in a good way. As crazy athletic as he is, his deficiancy to me is vision. He’s gotten WAY better, but someone who has the best natural god given vision like a Ryan Williams has made Wilson look slow in this development, but, every game the kid improves. Conversely, you can’t get more athletic, so not many kids are ever getting to the point of a Wilson. Just see what you think of the speed/power combo and give me your opinon on an nfl projection.

Jayron Hosely – Biggest knock, size, even though he’s a pretty willing tackler, etc. Uber God given ball skills, along with change of direction skills. He’s so fast turning and flipping his hips, that hes forever baiting a QB to throw, only to pick it off as a result. Its uncanny really. He’s not a DeLo Hall, other than speed wise. He’s much more Flowers, minus the physicality. Flowers would come knock your block off, and I can still remember his being the #1 CB postseason, only to fall into the 2nd round after the nitpicking. Well flash forward and Flowers is Revis-lite to me. I don’t think Hosley can be physical enough to be that total package, but flowers never had ball/pick skills this good. Projection, first round until they nitpick him like Flowers into the 2nd.

Blake DeChristopher – You’re 100% right, tough kid, played a TON in college....destined to play G in the NFL.

James Brooks – Same as above, he’s just already a guard.

Bruce Taylor – Out with a Lisfrance, so he’ll be back for his Sr year. Biggest MLB I can remember VT fielding, yet he’s got really good range. Improved his drops. Causes turnovers, def an NFL future.

Jarret Boykin and Danny Coale – Boykin has already all the WR career marks, and yet Coale has them too being right below him. Both played since true-fresh. Both as dependable as the day is long. Boykins is a future #2 nfl WR, and I’m extremely confident aobut that. His one knock is long-speed, but he gets down there plenty. Biggest hands ever, can’t find gloves he can’t split, so good hands. Coale is the sneaky white college WR ever. Mark my words, he will be a staple in somebody nfl offense at some point. Where its slot, #3, gadget....he’s one of those you wake up ten years later and he has a really good career.

Others to put on your radar...
Chris Drager – TE, DE, DE, TE. Thats his VT career. NFL TE potential, but the last two years he played DE cause we were thin, he was athletic and tough enough to transition. Rhoade Scholar candidate, he’ll also like Coale probably make a squad, could be a steal on some level as he’s never gotten to sink his teeth into te (and vt doesn’t throw there a ton anyway).

Eddie Whitley – FS, not sure on this one. He could stick, could not. VERY heady kid, team captain, we’ll just have to see.

Further down the line, but VERY bright futures...
Kyle Fuller – CB, the next great one IMO. Total game, often times shows up Hosley cause this kid LOVES to hit. Vincent Fuller nfl older bro.

Antoine Exum – SS/FS, NFL body now, just needs to round out his mental as he progresses.

James Gayle/JR Collins – DE’s, Gayle has more upside, Collins plays better now. Finally more NFL sized than the Jason Worilds we’ve employed more so traditionally.

Tariq Edwards – OLB, just a good, good LB.

Andrew Miller – C, first years starting but def bright future.

Marcus Davis / DJ Coles – WR, the next uber pair after the two above are gone. Both 6’4, 235 lbs and faaaast.

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:34 pm 
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Did you catch the vt-gt game? Pretty epic performances by Logan Thomas (5 total td's) and David Wilson (177 yds).

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:22 pm 
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I saw some of live, but was distracted by other things to really pay a ton of attention. Saw a couple of nice throws by Thomas and some nice runs by Wilson though. But I got it on my DVR, and will probably try to watch within the next week.

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:00 pm 
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- Oh you're in for a treat, uber impressive performances by Thomas and Wilson (we're on live again Thursday vs. UNCheat, who booooooooooy do we owe a good cheaters beatdown). Give me your scouting report after you check out the game, very curious what your eyes see.

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Quote:
Virginia Tech quarterbacks coach and play-caller Mike O’Cain is running out of new ways to compliment quarterback Logan Thomas.

Considering the competition and stakes, Thomas had perhaps his best game yet last Thursday, accounting for five touchdowns and 279 yards in the Hokies’ 37-26 win against Georgia Tech.

“That’s what you want to see,” O’Cain said. “You want to see a man that gets better and better and better and as the season goes.”


http://blogs.roanoke.com/andybittervirg ... an-thomas/

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:54 am 
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I just watched the game, and I would say Logan Thomas made a few nice throws. His arm strength is really good, able to laser those 30 yard throws. Showed some anticipation on some throws and able to lead his receiver on the posts and seam routes, but also was late on some throws. It seems like he's basically playing the same style as Tyrod Taylor early on, which is one read and then tuck it and run. It seemed like many of his earlier throws were like that where he didn't really show ideal field vision as a passer. It'll be interesting to see how that develops in the coming years, whether he can consistently scan the field, find the open receiver, and throw with accuracy to a spot. But obviously, the thing that I like about Thomas is that even if he doesn't develop as a QB in the coming years, he'll still should get a shot in the pros as a TE prospect. His comb of size and speed could make him a really solid future project there. But if he develops as a passer, then that's all fine and dandy too. A couple of his throws he made in this game I thought were NFL caliber throws (which is predominantly what I'm looking for when I'm scouting QBs).

As for David Wilson, there are only really two negatives about him. First, is ball security. He fumbled twice in this game, once muffing a kickoff, and the other being stripped on the second level with a routine hit by the defender that punched the ball out. He almost fumbled a third time when he got stood up by a defender on the edge and almost had the ball ripped out from him. That's going to be a problem if he cannot fix those problems, because if he's not reliable, then it's going to be hard for him to be a consistent lead back in the pros.

The other negative isn't a huge one, and it's his lack of lateral burst. But because of his speed and burst as a straight-line runner he rarely has to rely on his ability to change direction quickly with a lateral cut. He did do a nice job on one good run, shaking the safety out of his shoes on the second level with a nice studder-step. But every other carry he pretty much run behind his pads. Of course that's a good thing, which is why he's such a good runner and more powerful than his 200-pound frame should merit. I tallied a total of 106 yards after contact.

I still think he's more of a Felix Jones-type that splits reps and carries rather than being the guy that is going to tote the rock 250-300 times a year as a lead back. But as a guy you shoot to get about 15 touches to a game, he can be a very explosive runner in almost any NFL offense.


WR Jarret Boykin, i'm still concerned about his ability to separate and beat the jam in press coverage. The same for Danny Coale too. I think Boykin has excellent hands and ball skills, just will struggle to get consistent separation against NFL corners unless he really improves his route-running. Instead, I think he's more in line with the type of guy you put at No. 3 receiver on most teams rather than a No. 2 guy, unless he's playing opposite an elite No. 1 guy that draws coverages away from him. The comparison I would make is someone like Jordy Nelson, but probably a step slower. In the right offense (spread), he can probably be the guy that reliably gets you 30-40 catches, but production beyond that will probably be difficult.

And while Jayron Hosley didn't get a ton of work in coverage this game, he didn't really show me that he has the discipline I like to see in top corners, again making me think he's more DeAngelo Hall than Brandon Flowers. The pass interference call was a good example of this. I think he's a guy that doesn't play with ideal technique because his athleticism allows him to take shortcuts and make up for it. I think his physical tools are second to none, and if he can be developed then he can be a top corner. But you never know if that happens, and that's what character evaluation is for.

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:34 pm 
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Okay, watched quite a bit of football since I last posted.

Florida State-Maryland
Florida State-Boston College
Penn State-Northwestern
Alabama-Tennessee
Alabama-LSU
TCU-San Diego State
Syracuse-West Virginia
Temple-Ohio
Temple-Miami OH
Northern Illinois-Toledo
Tulsa-Central Florida
Appalachian State-Elon
Arizona-UCLA

Where do I begin with a million prospects to touch on. I guess I should go position-by-position.

QUARTERBACK

Saw more of Ryan Lindley, and I wasn't that impressed. He flashes what you want to see in NFL passer with a good, strong arm that reminds me a lot of Aaron Rodgers. He has nice accuracy, anticipation, and touch on some throws, but makes some questionable decisions and don't have those things on others. I think he's a player that could be good if he's allowed to sit the bench for a couple of years and grow into an offense. But if anybody drafts him and expects him to help them out his first 2 or so years, they are probably going to be mistaken.

NIU's Chandler Harnish could be developed as a Josh McCown-like backup. He has good mobility and athleticism with a nice arm. His accuracy, anticipation, and field vision aren't anything special, but nothing where you don't think he can be developed as a competent No. 2 down the road.

RUNNING BACK

First chance to really break down Trent Richardson, and I have to say I was very impressed in both games, the Tennessee game moreso than LSU. But what I really like about Richardson is that he consistently is able to make the first defender miss. His balance is excellent and while his power and pad level aren't quite as good as Mark Ingram's, Richardson's balance and inability to go down on first contact allows him to break tackles. I think because he has better speed, burst, and ability to hit the homerun, Richardson's upside is higher than Ingram's. I don't think it's crazy to draw comparisons to Adrian Peterson. I don't think he's quite on that level, but I do think he's the type of RB that can potentially be a 300-carry, 1500-yard back in the pros.

For Tennessee, Tauren Poole impressed in this game with his quickness and ability to bounce plays outside. I would draw a comparison to Tashard Choice, and I think he has the potential to be a starter at the next level, but is probably a guy that you'd probably want to split reps with. But he's my currently highest rated senior running back.

Temple's Bernard Pierce did not wow me vs. Ohio. Despite his size (6-0/220), he's a guy that I think tries to bounce plays outside a bit too much. He has nice power, but is not a guy that is going to break a ton of tackles. I think he can be a good starter, but I don't think he's an ideal choice to really carry the load at the next level. I think he has potential, and he might be one of those players that 2-3 years from now can really emerge as a force at the next level.

A sleeper candidate is Syracuse's Antwon Bailey, who has a short, thick frame (5-6/200). He's got quick feet and runs hard for his size. What will hurt his draft stock is that he doesn't have great speed, but he has the similar sort of toughness as Maurice Jones-Drew, and I think his value will be as a third down back potentially.

WIDE RECEIVER

Watched App State's Bran Quick who reminds me of Michael Jenkins because they have similar size (6-4/215) and similar high-cut frame that makes it hard for them to generate burst and separate from defenders. But Jenkins is probably a step or two faster in terms of his long speed than Quick, who I would be surprised if he ran faster than a 4.55-4.6 range. But Quick has better hands, ball skills, and body control. And I think he has the potential to be a solid chain-moving No. 2 complementary guy much like Jenkins.

I like Marquis Maze out of Alabama. He's undersized (5-8/190), but has very good burst and although he's not a really polished route-runner today, if he does improve there I think he can be an effective slot receiver in the same fashion as someone like Randall Cobb.

TIGHT END

While my DVR only recorded the first half of the Arizona-UCLA game, I did get to see some of UCLA junior Joseph Fauria in that game. His uncle is ex-Pats/Seahawks TE Christian Fauria. What I like about Fauria is his size (6-7/250) and has good hands. I'm not sure if he's going to be a dynamic starter, but he'll be potent in the redzone due to that. The key for him might be his blocking which is just OK right now, but if he can improve there, then I think he can be a comparable starting TE to a ]Kevin Boss.

OFFENSIVE TACKLE

Alabama's sophomore RT D.J. Fluker is an interesting prospect because of his immense potential. At 6-6/335, he's massive with excellent strength, and has the potential to be a dominant run blocker. The problem is that his pop, hand use aren't consistent enough to effectively utilize his strength and power. In pass protection, he's so big that he's difficult t get around, but his technique and footwork are just pretty average, and he really struggled facing LSU d-end Barkevious Mingo who is an excellent speed rusher but is only 6-5/240. Mingo was able to push and knock him back with his bull rush.

Tennessee junior LT Dallas Thomas definitely has the athleticism to play on the left side in the pros, but he's not all that big or strong (6-5/300), but he struggles with his balance and ability to deliver a punch on the edge, which is essential for him to play the left side in the pros. I think he's a player that should stay for another year to try and get better there. But if he was to come out, I think he would be a good option for a team that doesn't plan to play him in his first year. But 2-3 years from now, he could be a solid option as a starting LT if he can develop. He reminds me a bit of Derek Sherrod in terms of his build and playing style, although Sherrod's hands were way better when he came out last year.

OFFENSIVE GUARD

Alabama's LT Barrett Jones played guard last year and I think ultimately he'll return there in the pros. He just doesn't have the feet or athleticism you want in a tackle. He was a player I liked last year as a guard, but this year he didn't really wow me. There is nothing really about him that stands out, he is a nice straight-ahead run blocker because he has decent pop and can get position. He might be a good guard at the next level, but nothing special.

Chance Warmack I like a little more because he has very good strength and power. He is a guy that potentially can move the pile as a run blocker. In pass protection, he needs work because his footwork is average, but because of his size (6-3/320) and strength, he can make up for it, and if he improves there he can be one of the better guards in the league.

Miami of Ohio's Brandon Brooks is massive at 6-4/345 and is effective mostly due to that size. He's probably too heavy and plays with too inconsistent technique and balance to really like his chances immediately. I think because of his size, and if he can develop down the road, he might make a poor man's Deuce Lutui.

CENTER

Alabama center William Vlachos is a decent blocker, but he's undersized and struggled against the powerful DTs of LSU like Michael Brockers. He has pretty quick hands and nice mean streak, but he can't get much push as a run blocker and is not very fluid in space. And his squat build (6-1/300) isn't helped by his tendency to bend his waist rather than his knees. If he can be more of a knee-bender, I think he can be a decent starting center. But he doesn't seem to have the upside to be a top center, just will be an average to above average starter.

DEFENSIVE TACKLE

Josh Chapman is a very good run plugger for Bama. He is nearly impossible to move off the ball, and the epitome of a "space eater." But he has very little range and won't offer you anything as a pass rusher, because he doesn't have good enough burst to get upfield nor does he use his hands very well. He's a guy that I think can be a solid starting NT in a 3-4 scheme, but because he's not the type of guy that can dominate, he might be a better fit on a team that he splits reps with.

I mentioned Michael Brockers before, and he's a solid run defender for a sophomore. Brockers will flash some quickness upfield on occasion as a pass rusher, but he's primarily a run stuffer that can be disruptive, plays with good leverage and can make impact plays there. He has good potential at the next level, although I'd love to see him stay in school to get more development.

I liked what I saw from Devon Still, who has decent quickness to play on passing downs, but his best skill is his bull rush. He can anchor somewhat against the run. My biggest beef with Still is his motor, which ran hot and cold vs. Northwestern. He reminds me a bit of Albert Haynesworth, at least a poor man's version of him. I think he'll make a nice complementary starting DT that can play in a 4-3 or 3-4.

DEFENSIVE END

I really liked FSU's Brandon Jenkins. He reminds me a bit of Trent Cole. Not the biggest guy (6-3/255), but he has a good first step, is dangerous edge rusher when he lines up in a wide technique, and what I like the most is that he'll use his hands and has counter moves when he can't win off the snap, and will set up the end. He has potential. He might be able to play OLB in a 3-4 as well, but he's not natural playing in space quite yet, and I think you'd be wasting his talent if you weren't asking him to rush the passer every single snap.

Tennessee's Malik Jackson had some nice plays. He plays inside for them, but the few times he lined up outside and went against Fluker, he gave him fits. What I like the most about Jackson is that he has very good hands, and knows how to keep blockers from getting their hands on him. What I don't like is that he can get pushed around vs. the run because he doesn't do a good job getting initial leverage off the snap, and his burst upfield is pretty average. But at 6-5/270, he's a player that I think can be developed into a good stack and shed player at DE in a 3-4 scheme if he can add a bit more bulk.

Syracuse junior DE Chandler Jones has a good frame (6-5/265) and looks the part as a 4-3 DE. But his first step and burst upfield weren't anything special. He has a good motor and has some potential as a bull rusher. But I think he might have to be a left end in a 4-3 scheme because he doesn't have the ideal edge speed to be a rush end.

LINEBACKER

Courtney Upshaw is an impressive edge pass rusher with a good first step that I think can be a good 3-4 OLB. Upshaw I think is helped by his height (6-2) because it allows him to get under blockers and turn the corner. I don't think Upshaw has great instincts vs. the run, but he's a good tackler and has good speed and comfortable playing in space. Don'ta Hightower is a physical run defender, but he might be hurt similarly to Brandon Spikes because he has very average speed. But I think in a 3-4 scheme that asks Hightower to play a James Farrior-like role in the middle, he can be a very good starter.

FSU's Nigel Bradham looks a prototype Tampa-2 OLB due to his speed and range.

Luke Kuechly is a very sound MLB, that is a solid tackler, has good instincts, and while he doesn't have great speed/range, it's definitely good. If there is one negative about Kuechly is that he's not a great physical specimen. He's not a guy that is going to blow up ballcarriers and be a feared entity on defense. If he was, then I would compare him to Brian Urlacher in terms of his potential as a MLB/ILB.

Ryan Baker for LSU isn't very big (6-0/230), but he's got blazing speed, and his ability to close on the ball means that he's an effective tackler. He's a player that I think is best fit as a WILL in a 4-3 that will allow him to be a run and hit defender, he might also be able to bulk up and play inside in a 3-4 a bit.


CORNERBACK

Morris Claiborne has excellent size and is a very good press corner with excellent ball skills. My only concerns about Claiborne are that he's a supbar run defender and his technique is sloppy. But like Asante Samuel, people aren't going to care too much about the run defense if he's picking off 6-8 passes a year, which he's capable of doing. And he is able to get away with sloppy technique because of excellent athleticism.

I wasn't wowed by Dre Kirkpatrick in either Bama game, although he was avoided in both. Only was targeted 3 times in total in both games. He was flagged for holding, and didn't do a lot of good things vs. the run despite him too having great size (6-3/190). But he's a top athlete. I need to see more.

I like FSU's undersized corner Greg Reid. There is a bit of Brent Grimes with him. He's only 5-8/185, but I like his technique and he's rarely out of position. He'll struggle matching up at the next level, but like Grimes I think he's a guy that will find a way to overcome his lack of size. I don't see him being a starter at the next level, but I think he could potentially become a competent nickel corner. More than likely, he'll be able to add depth and also be an effective returner as well.

Got the chance to really watch San Diego State corner Larry Parker, who is one of the national leaders in picks (6). He's thin (5-11/170) and it shows in run support, and he's not a guy that is a great matchup in man coverage. I like his footwork and ball skills, but he'll probably just be a backup. But as is often the case with corners, a couple of guys manage to put in the work (like Grimes) and get better at the next level. So it would not be a complete surprise if a couple of years from now he's a decent No. 2 corner. But more than likely, he's just depth that will struggle to match up with starting WRs.

SAFETIES

Mark Barron and Robert Lester are a nice pair of safeties. They aren't the biggest run defenders, although I think Barron is better. Lester has good closing burst and will deliver a hit, but he's not a sound tackler. Barron isn't the soundest tackler either, but he is physical and does a nice job wrapping up. I think Lester is better in coverage because of his speed and range to make plays in centerfield. Barron also has decent ability, but I don't think he's going to be a playmaker there.

I think Lester's potential is higher because he's a guy that potentially could be a ballhawking centerfielder in the mold of an Ed Reed, although I'm not going to pretend that I think he'll be as good as Reed. Barron on the other hand, is solid across the board, but I don't think stands out in any way to make me think he's going to be anything more than a good starter, but nothing special.

LSU safety Brandon Taylor is a guy I like because of his excellent straight-line speed and closing burst. The problem is that it's all straight-line speed. He's not the biggest guy either (5-11/200) and it shows when he's tackling. He's effective because his speed and burst allows him to cut guys legs and stuff. But he's a guy that I think will have a hard time sticking in most schemes. He'll probalby have to bulk up some and play in a Cover-2 heavy scheme, and he might wind up just being a good backup but overmatched starter.

SPECIALISTS

Florida State P Shawn Powell has a huge leg, but his hangtime is poor. He has Lechler-like potential in terms of his leg strength, but needs to work on his ability to kick directionally and get hangtime. He's a guy that you love to have when you're backed up in your own territory because he can kick you out of trouble, but unless he's trying to boom a 60-yard kick, he doesn't bring much to the table. But his leg obviously will get him opportunities in the pros, and like players like Mat McBriar and Andy Lee that were big-legged kickers, he might take a couple of years to develop.

Tennessee LS Nick Guess is one of the more accurate snappers I've seen since I've been scouting snappers. But his velocity is pretty average, but that's something that should improve with experience at the next level. But his consistency as a snapper makes me think that unlike most snapping prospects, he can come in right away and win a job in the pros.


Projected Rounds

* indicates underclassman

1st - RB Trent Richardson, Alabama*
1st - ILB Luke Kuechly, Boston College*
1st - DE Brandon Jenkins, Florida State*
1st - CB Morris Claiborne, LSU*
1st - OT D.J. Fluker, Alabama*
1st - OLB/DE Barkevious Mingo, LSU*
1st/2nd - OLB Courtney Upshaw, Alabama
1st/2nd - ILB Don'ta Hightower, Alabama*
1st/2nd - CB Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama*
2nd - OG Chance Warmack, Alabama*
2nd - FS Robert Lester, Alabama*
2nd - SS Mark Barron, Alabama
2nd - DT Devon Still, Penn State
2nd/3rd - DT Michael Brockers, LSU
2nd/3rd - OLB Nigel Bradham, Florida State
2nd/3rd - OT Dallas Thomas, Tennessee*
2nd/3rd - NT Josh Chapman, Alabama
2nd/3rd - TE DeAngelo Peterson, LSU
3rd - OLB Nico Johnson, Alabama*
3rd - WR Rueben Randle, LSU*
3rd - OG/OT Barrett Jones, Alabama*
3rd - RB Tauren Poole, Tennessee
3rd - SS Prentiss Wagner, Tennessee*
3rd - OT Zebrie Sanders, Florida State
3rd - DE Chandler Jones, Syracuse*
3rd - ILB Tank Carder, TCU
3rd/4th - CB Xavier Rhodes, Florida State*
3rd/4th - QB Ryan Lindley, San Diego St.
3rd/4th - RB Ed Wesley, TCU*
3rd/4th - OLB Bruce Irvin, West Virginia
4th - DE Malik Jackson, Tennessee
4th - RB Bernard Pierce, Temple*
4th - OC William Vlachos, Alabama
4th - WR Marquis Maze, Alabama
4th - WR Stephen Hill, Georgia Tech*
4th - ILB Ryan Baker, LSU
4th - QB E.J. Manuel, Florida State*
4th - OLB Gerald Hodges, Penn State*
4th/5th - OG Johnnie Troutman, Penn State
5th - OLB Adrian Robinson, Temple
5th - SS Brandon Taylor, LSU
5th - CB Rod Sweeting, Georgia Tech*
5th - QB Geno Smith, West Virginia
5th - WR Eric Page, Toledo*
5th - TE Nick Provo, Syracuse
5th/6th - TE Evan Rodriguez, Temple
6th - QB Chandler Harnish, Northern Illinois
6th - CB Greg Reid, Florida State
6th/7th - WR LaVon Brazill, Ohio
7th - DE Jack Crawford, Penn State
7th - WR Bert Reed, Florida State
7th - RB Davin Meggett, Maryland
7th - OG Alfred McCullough, Alabama
7th - OLB Nate Stupar, Penn State
7th - CB Keith Tandy, West Virginia
7th - RB Antwon Bailey, Syracuse
7th/FA - P Shawn Powell, Florida State
7th/FA - LS Nick Guess, Tennessee
7th/FA - CB Greg McCoy, TCU
7th/FA - OG Brandon Brooks, Miami OH
7th/FA - CB Larry Parker, San Diego St.
7th/FA - CB Josh Robinson, Central Florida
7th/FA - CB/S D'Anthony Lynn, Penn State
7th/FA - RB Jermaine Thomas, Florida State
FA - OT Don Barclay, West Virginia
FA - OLB Tahir Whitehead, Temple
FA - OT Trevor Olson, Northern Illinois
FA - OG Derrick Dennis, Temple
FA - OLB Miles Burris, San Diego St.
FA - DT Jerome Long, San Diego St.
FA - RB Adonis Thomas, Toledo
FA - DE Julian Miller, West Virginia
FA - TE Adam Nissley, Central Florida
FA - OC Scott Wedige, Northern Illinois
FA - DE Morkeith Brown, Temple
FA - QB G.J. Kinne, Tulsa
FA - QB Jarrett Lee, LSU
FA - P Anson Kelton, TCU
FA - P Brian Stahovich, San Diego St.
FA - QB Matt Simms, Tennessee
FA - K Abel Perez, San Diego St.
FA - OT Tyler Holmes, Tulsa
FA - LS Charley Hughlett, Central Florida

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:59 pm 
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http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/blog/_/n ... -prospects

This mentions a good bit about the unc/vt game from the pro prospect perspective. Couples is a no brainer, but does delve into their other two lb's too.

As far as VT goes, Thomas has come further in one year than just about any qb I've witnessed, and he's still only a sophomore. This kid has future number one pick written all over that frame. He already is pretty good at progressions, and I would say he never takes off after the first one as a rule. He's plenty willing to sit and scan, but obviously he's still growing into the position. The crazy thing is no one knows where his ceiling will end up, b/c he literally gets better weekly. Him w/ another offseason to refine, and geez I don't know how much bigger and stronger he can get.

Wilson, you're 100% right on the fumbles, but I aiken it to the trouble APeterson had in that he runs so hard he sets himself up for some of these. When you twist, contort, lean, streach, etc., then leg drive, push a pile....the defenders are gonna come in trying to cause a fumble. If he didn't run as hard as I think a 205 lb human could run (and not hurt themselves), then I'd be more worried. The below mentions the first round if he run a good forty, lmao, he's been timed at 4.29, I don't think thats gonna be a problem. I also agree about he lateral, and you're spot on in that I don't think in HS he EVER had to use it, and really not a ton of difference in college. NOw nfl, he'll have to adjust more. I can see the Felix Jones comparison, but honestly Wilson outclasses him in everything asked from a RB, and its not close at allllllll.

Hosely has been trending down, maybe his hammy, maybe lack of concentration. I'd love for him to return for his sr year, then go from there. Same w/ Wilson too, although he can easily leave if he chooses.


Quote:
Wilson leads Hokies prospects
The aforementioned Wilson gets more impressive each time I see him play. He has improved his interior vision and instincts, and showed them off on a 20-yard run in the second quarter. Wilson probed the hole before cutting off a second-level block, showing the burst to get to the open field. He also continues to display impressive balance to bounce off contact and pick up extra yards by churning his feet.

Wilson is also dangerous as a kickoff returner, getting upfield quickly once he gets the ball. He is coming on strong and rising as quickly as any prospect on the board, and he could sneak into the first round if he enters the draft as a junior and puts up a good 40-yard dash time during the pre-daft process.

Fellow underclassman Jayron Hosley is going in the opposite direction. He has been dealing with a nagging hamstring injury, but even taking that into consideration Hosley has been underwhelming. He is quick to transition out of his backpedal and has good ball skills when in position, but he is an inconsistent tackler in space and has problems handing bigger, stronger receivers. There is also the question of just how fast Hosley is.

All that adds up to a player who has failed to live up to expectations after collecting nine interceptions last season. Hosley is just a junior and would do well to come back to school for another year.

Finally, I continue to be impressed by Tech WR Danny Coale, who consistently creates separation out of his breaks, has good hands, and exhibits solid field awareness near the sideline. He's also a contributor on various special teams, including filling in as the punter earlier this season. Throw in good burst and polished routes, and you have all the makings of a good value pick in the fifth-round area.

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:39 am 
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You're right about Wilson being extremely tough 205-pound RB. He's not quite as powerful as MJD, but I do like his power and toughness. But despite that I'm not completely convinced he'll hold up for a full NFL season. Now, I'm not as concerned as I was with Ryan Williams last year. But he's not the type of guy that I want to give 250-300 carries to and expect to do that for a full 16 games or multiple seasons. That's one of the reasons why I compare him to Felix Jones. Because like Jones, I think he'll be best coming off the bench for a team as a change of pace option rather than a guy that carries the rock.

Now granted, we now live in an era where there are very few 300-carry RBs. To have 300 carries over a 16-game season, you have to average 18.75 carries per game. Guess what? Only 5 guys in the league average that so far this year: McCoy, MJD, Turner, Gore, and Foster. Forte and Peterson are just under at 18.6. Even guys like Ray Rice, Mendenhall, CJ2k, McFadden, and Blount average around 15 or 16.

In time, could Wilson be in that group? Probably. But note every single one of that latter group of players split significant time or were backups in their first and second years. And I think with Wilson, like with Jones, a team probably shouldn't draft him thinking he's giong to be an every down back. Now he might grow into that role, sort of like Ahmad Bradshaw, who came into the league as an undersized 5-11/200 pound RB. And that's why I'm a bit skeptical about his future durability, because even hard-nosed guys like MJD and Bradshaw, who have both probably added at least 10-15 pounds of muscle since entering the league struggle to make it through 16 games. So I think the best option for a guy like Wilson is to go to a team where he'll split carries with a bigger bruiser that can run between the tackles, while Wilson subs in when they need a big play and change of pace. Maybe he's the frontrunner like Bradshaw, maybe he's the backup like Jones was to Marion Barber, but either way that's the sort of player I can envision.

Perhaps, I'll probably use the comparison of Bradshaw as a better comparison for what kind of NFL player he is. But I think in terms of his running style he reminds me a lot of Jones before he got fat.

As for Hosley, again it comes down to whether or not he's DeAngelo Hall or Brandon Flowers. From his play on the field, my thinking is more Hall. But this is why my evaluations purely from television broadcasts can never be complete, because I don't do character evals. My only real judge of character really is whether or not they are a "detail-oriented" player on the field. In the case of Hall, he was not. In the case of Flowers, I thought he was. In the case of Hosley, I think he's more Hall than Flowers. The only "issues" I really had with Flowers was that I didn't think his speed was anything special and the questions about character: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7435

But those seemingly have worked out for the better. And Hall's problem was his ego was so huge that he didn't think he really had to bust his hump to improve on the next level. He just survived off his athleticism. And I'm not a huge fan of corners that do that. I thought the same thing about Vontae Davis, and Revis as well, although I can clearly tell that I was wrong about Revis.

It's going to be interesting to see where Patrick Peterson's career goes after this year because he's had his issues as a rookie. And if he puts in the work to get better (and I'd bet he will), then he's going to be a player that can potentailly be that Revis type. I don't think Hosley is Revis by any means, but I do think he has the potential to be one of the better ball-hawking corners in the league.

Generally speaking, I think ball skills are becoming the most important skill a corner can have just because of the quality of passing in today's NFL, which is why someone like Flowers succeeds and Hall does not. Because despite the fact that Hall collects a bunch of INTs, he is not really a top-notch ball-hawk, evidenced by his PD numbers which are pretty mediocre. So with a guy like Hosley, I'd certainly be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. And in the latter part of Round 1 (say picks No. 20-32), he'd be worth my while, but if I was using a Top 20 pick on him, I'd probably want a bit more of a polished product.

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:26 pm 
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/vi ... story.html

Quote:
Since the Hokies’ lone loss of the season to Clemson on Oct. 1, Thomas has accounted for 20 touchdowns and thrown just two interceptions, emerging as not only one of the ACC’s best quarterbacks but one of the best in the nation.

During that time period, only five quarterbacks in the country — Houston’s Case Keenum, Oklahoma State’s Brandon Weeden, Stanford’s Andrew Luck, Boise State’s Kellen Moore and Kansas State’s Collin Klein — have more touchdowns and two of them played one additional game than Thomas. Among starting quarterbacks on top 25 teams, only Keenum and Michigan State’s Kirk Cousins have thrown fewer interceptions.

No quarterback nationally, however, has accounted for a higher percentage of his team’s scoring output than Thomas has over the past seven weeks. His 12 passing touchdowns and eight rushing scores mean Thomas has played a direct role in 120 of the Hokies’ last 181 points.

“His [progress] wasn’t gradual. It was like day and night. It switched over and he was just like an all-American quarterback against Miami and the weeks we’ve been playing since Clemson,” running back David Wilson said Tuesday. “He’s going to be one of the greatest players, I think, to come through Virginia Tech.

He was far from it when this season began, throwing five interceptions and just four touchdowns in his first five games. But Coach Frank Beamer cautioned against drawing too much into his inconsistent play, emphasizing that Thomas had all the tools to be an NFL quarterback except experience.

In particular, Thomas’s combination of poise, command in the huddle and gamesmanship have impressed coaches since he arrived on campus. Though Thomas has some bad throws to his credit, quarterbacks coach Mike O’Cain said only one of his pupil’s interceptions this year has been the result of a bad decision.

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:02 pm 
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It's going to be interesting to see where Thomas is a year or two from now. I remember seeing Josh Freeman during his sophomore year at K-State, and he was similar to Thomas in that he was raw, but had a load of talent. And 3 years later he was considered one of the premier QBs in the next generation of passers in the NFL.

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 Post subject: Re: The Magnanimous 2012 Scouting Thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:22 pm 
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- Wow, I didn't realize he was this close to breaking so many records....esp the all time acc mark, Thomas Jones was a BEAST at uva.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/sports/co ... r-1505442/

BLACKSBURG --
Virginia Tech running back David Wilson set out to do big things this season. So far, so good.

Wilson, a junior from Danville who is on pace to break the school and ACC single-season rushing marks, was named ACC player of the year on Wednesday.

Wilson, the conference's top offensive player and a unanimous first-team All-ACC selection, beat out Boston College linebacker Luke Kuechly, the ACC defensive player of the year, for top honors. Wilson received 18 votes to Kuechly's nine.

Tech sophomore quarterback Logan Thomas was fifth with three votes.

The Hokies have had two consecutive ACC players of the year. Quarterback Tyrod Taylor won it last year as a senior.

Tech, which has been in the ACC since 2004, has had three players of the year in the past eight seasons — quarterback Bryan Randall in 2004, Taylor last year and now Wilson.

"A lot of great players have won that award, and I would feel real accomplished by winning that award," Wilson told reporters Tuesday before the results of the vote were revealed.

Wilson has rushed for 1,595 yards and nine touchdowns this season. He is 61 yards shy of breaking Tech's single-season rushing record of 1,655 set by Ryan Williams in 2009, and he needs 204 yards to break the ACC single-season mark of 1,798 set by Virginia's Thomas Jones in 1999.

Wilson joins a list of recent ACC player-of-the-year winners that includes Georgia Tech wide receiver Calvin Johnson, Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan and Clemson running back C.J. Spiller.

Those players are now starting in the NFL. Wilson could join them soon.

He has yet to decide about returning to Tech next year, but he said Tuesday that he plans to send his paperwork to the NFL's advisory committee to see where he is projected for this year's draft.

"Regardless of my decision, I would like to see where I would end up if I was to take that route," Wilson said.

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