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People often point out that Ryan doesn't have a strong arm, and that he's not accurate on deep throws. The rebuttals that follow usually say that you don't have to have a strong arm to be good at throwing deep. That may or may not be the case, but it overlooks the importance of arm strength in making other throws. For example, throws on a line to the sides of the field. Throws "outside the numbers."

Mike Lombardi talked about this and how opposing defenses take advantage of it on the B.S. Report podcast yesterday:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=7443005

Those of us who have criticized this from the beginning probably don't have the strategical understanding of the game or the football specific vocabulary to express what we see as he does here but when you watch Matt's passes and you watch the passes of Rodgers, Newton, Brees, etc., they are perceptively different. I always just say, "Trust your eyes." Sometimes you may not know exactly what you are looking at but you can certainly A/B one QB to the next. I still stick by the belief that Matt is a game manager. He may or may not be good enough to win it all for us but I think within the confines of the current system we've gone just about as far as we can go. I generally believe great players play great in all systems but it is a team game. Unfortunately, when you have a player with fundamental shortcomings and have to have a perfect storm for them to succeed you are not going to have a great success rate. there are plenty of times where I'd watch a pass heading to one of our WRs at the sidelines and I'm watchng the DB close on it and I'm clinching the hand rests thinking, "Get there! Get there!"

A funny thing hit me about MR the other day. He's about my height and if I trained as much as he did I'd probably get up to about his weight but guys with this build just can't pack on a lot more bulk and we really are not ideally built for the game. The team mate who described his running as like watching a baby giraffe a few years made me laugh because one of my old softball team mates once described my running thusly...albeit at least with the caveat of being an adult giraffe. You just can't really fight genetics. I think Matt will wring every bit of talent out of his body that he can but in the end it may be what cags him.

What I thought was interesting about Lombardi's comments was what he said about opposing defenses. They're able to take away a large part of the field by essentially daring Ryan to throw out routes.

The other part that stuck with me was his comment that the problem is amplified when Ryan plays outdoors. When we think of a "Dome team" we often equate that with speed at the skill positions, but playing in a dome is easier on QBs as well. Scouts like to look at whether a QB can generate enough power to get the ball to the sideline quickly in windy weather. This could explain Ryan's struggles on the road.

It would also speak to Pudge's complaint about why we don't attack the middle of the field. It is really hard unless you are there and can see everywhere at once or have access to the under lock and key "All 22" films to know what really goes on but when you put a bunch of the fractured data together it does point to the arm strength criticism again. I don't know that it is an insurmountable problem but it is a significant one.

Matt Ryan's biggest "limitation" just caught a plane to Jacksonville.

The throw to Jenkins to beat Chicago was certainly an "out" route. His throw to Julio on the last play of some game this year that Julio dropped in the end zone was an "out" route. Roddy "catches" any number of 10-15 yard "out" routes each year.

I don't think I've ever seen Ryan shy away from out routes, but I have seen him get absolutely hammered in the pocket. Maybe someone who watches more carefully than I can disabuse me of the notion that Lombardi is full of crap, but I don't see the out route as his issue at all.

I'd argue that a lot of the "outdoor struggles" are due to the fact that the team cannot hear well enough to execute the no-huddle.

Ryan can throw the out just fine. The problem has been that the coaches reinforce, "you can't go wrong by throwing it long," and, "if it isn't there, just be a square." The folks ragging on Ryan either don't understand that he is being coached that way, or they expect him to rebel against the coaches and do whatever he wants. That said, I'm still quite nervous that we will bring in another coach who will continue to encourage Ryan to be a sissy. I hope that we bring in someone who will light a fire under him.

Listening to what Mike Lombardi was saying, what he was saying was code for lacking arm strength. But I do think he's wrong in his specific analysis that the Falcons offense is not outside the numbers. Because the reality is that the majority of what the Falcons do is outside the numbers.

I do think Ryan's arm is limited relative to many of the starting QBs in the league. But I do think there are probably a 30-40% of the starting QBs in the league that have arms comparable to Matt Ryan.

Ryan is probably never going to be an elite verticla passer. But again, he doesn't have to be. If we can get him to a level where he is an average vertical passer, then that will be sufficient. Again, I shall remind you that Kurt Warner was a below average to average vertical passer. And when all of the things clicked (for whatever reason) in '08 and he was an elite vertical passer for that one year, then that offense was really effective. Again, if Matt Ryan can consistently hit 35-45% of his vertical passers, and then if one year he is just magical and hits 50-60% of them, then this offense will be very efficient.

Is Ryan a game manager? Well, that's relative. Is he a game manager compared to Drew Brees? Yes. Is he a game manager compared to Ryan FItzpatrick or Mark Sanchez? No.

Is he on that 2nd/3rd tier level of QB, that he's not going to be able to single-handedly carry a team to a 9-7 record like many of the elite QBs can? No. Is he going to need somewhat of a running game, and if he's in a situation where he has to throw the ball 40-50 times a game, are the Falcons going to win most of their games? Probably not, not unless we get an offensive coordinator that really can make that sort of one-dimensional offense dynamic. And I don't think there are many guys out there that are capable of doing that.

But I don't think Matt Ryan is any more or less a game manager than Tom Brady was circa 2003 and 2004. And it was really around that time ('04) where Brady really took that next big step as a passer, and the needle continued to point up all the way until '07, and he has been successful at maintaining that relative level of play.

And I don't really see a major difference between a young Matt Ryan and a young Tom Brady, besides i think Brady is a bit more driven than Ryan is. But I don't see hardly any difference in arm strength. I think Brady is also a QB that doesn't like it when things get "sloppy."

But what I think they've done or did in NE was design an offense around Brady's strengths (mainly him from the neck up) that revolved around Brady. And I'm not saying that if you just put another Charlie Weis around Ryan, he'd automatically be Brady. But I do think there is still A LOT of room to grow for Ryan.

And I think what happened in New England post-2004, was that they built a scheme and offense that put the onus on Brady to win them football games, and designed an offense around the ability to throw the ball. And while they did not abandon the run ever really during that time, with guys like Corey Dillon, and BenJarvus Green-Ellis, etc. they ran the ball primarily late in games to salt the game away.

And I think with Mularkey, this offense has NEVER been designed to do that (besides the 2010 Ravens game), and therefore I don't think like others Ryan CANNOT do that, because I believe he has never had that opportunity. And it boils down with me, that IF THE FALCONS WANT TO WIN A SUPER BOWL at any point in the next 5-7 years, then THEY HAVE TO try and develop that ability with Matt Ryan.

And with me, there is absolutely no downside to that attempt. There's no payoff to not at least attempting it. Because IMHO it's the ONLY way you're going to win a Super Bowl.

This is sorta where my thought process has landed. But other than the above benefiting Ryan from a mental standpoint (his biggest strength imo), but his arm. I had shy'd away from harping on it like many, but its definitely an issue. You're right, we do throw outside the numbers a TON, but even those have to have proper blocking for Ryan, plus he's really gotta put more into it than that throw should require. If theres pressure, or he didn't get a good preread, then he simly doesn't have the arm strength to overcome. He's not fitting much beyond 15 yards into any tight windows. His downfield passing was the WORST in the league this year, yes Tebow was even rated higher. Stop and digest that one for a minute. The hail mary prehalf time of the NYG game was pathetic, I actually cringed watching him wind up, baseball crow hop style...only to see these, what I call fairy floaters barely make it to the goaline. So naturally we traded up to get an explosive jones, who he cannot hit to save his life. So where does this lead us...

Copy the Patriots offense, or the old WCO truer Walsh sense, short, conrolled passing game. Ryan can do what Brady does, although I do think Brady's arm is a level above Ryan. Use his brain and short throw accuracy, his two biggest strengths, preread, take whats given. Now what we're missing to accomplish that is a better oline and an heir at TE. Let the heir at te get gonzo's knowledge this year, then turn around and grab another next year. Then we can scheme people to pieces. A two TE offense, I don't think theres another package in football that lets you motion, scheme more than that base offense. Which is why Belichick runs it, to take advantage of his ability to scheme/gameplan, and Brady's two biggest assets (same as Ryan), brian and accuracy.

Does anyone not think we need to switch to a shorter, controlled pass game that actually suits Ryan's true skill set?

Julio is simply gonna be a lot more affective running those drag routes (the one he blistered for a score a few weeks ago), than 9 routes. Then you're actually getting your money's worth from two of your biggest assets. I still think TD was to dumb to marry the thought of the players skill sets (esp Ryan), vs. what scheme we run and how you draft for such. To me his luster has worn completely off, but he does have a new opportunity with what directions we go coordinator wise.

what I explained above, just saw on grantland from bill barnwell...what do you all think?

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/745 ... ff-matchup

The Falcons have the talent to create those kinds of mismatches widetrak21. That's what I'm hoping to see from our new coordinator. If/when we have an OC who can get people open in space, we will see Ryan develop into a Brees/Brady. We've been handicapping ourselves all year by not having White, Jones, Gonzo, and Douglas on the field at the same time. White, Jones, and Gonzo are all candidates for double coverage. If we design our new scheme around that, Ryan will pick people apart, and we will gash people constantly for 20 yard plays. If we bring in another conservative offense guy, Ryan will remain what he is now. Consequentially, if we bring in another conservative offense guy, I'll be at my wits end with this franchise.

Well said RAP, I agree with all that, esp the double team part. Thats what Brady does, so simplistic yet effective, just take what the D gives you, as they cannot matchup across board. We've got better #1/2 wr's, let Douglas be our Welker-lite and Quiz is already a nice 3rd down/pass catching back. We just need our "value" back to replace Turner (ie. the pat's never spend a high pick on a diminishing position like RB) and get another competent/contrasting (more speed/youth) at TE. The only thing thats a bigger difference is they have a lot better overall oline.

Who do we find to coach such offense, who was next in line to replace Bill O'Brien pre McDaniel's being back? THATS the guy we need, who WOULD have replaced O'Brien.

I think that Todd Haley (Cards/Chiefs) would be a good candidate, but he's a bit of a loose cannon.

I had the same thought about the throw to Jenkins to beat Chicago. It was a perfect throw and it really impressed me at the time. Then again, the circumstances dictated that Ryan had no choice but to go for that one. You mention that you haven't seen Ryan shy away from out routes, but I also don't remember him making a living on them the way e.g. Chandler did with Tony Martin (with Martin setting up the defense for the out and up).

Perhaps someone statistically inclined (Pudge?) can crunch the numbers on the percentage of out routes Ryan throws as compared to his peers. I'd also be interested in whether it changes in the playoffs or outdoors.

That certainly doesn't help things. I was surprised to see all those audible theatrics against the Giants in such a loud environment on Sunday. Contrast it to the '98 game against the Vikings when Reeves installed a silent snap count.