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 Post subject: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Gotta get something going here beyond the teams analysis that Pudge is working so hard on.

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/vtfootball/wb/305249

FWIW, Wilson is gonna light the combine UP. Been interesting to see people comparing/contrasting Wilson v Lamar Miller. Also fwiw, Danny Coale is an uber sleeper in this draft imho.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:57 pm 
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Interesting read, although I'm not sure the questions about Wilson have anything to do with whether he's "physical enough" I think it has everything to do with holding onto the ball! The contrast between him and someone like Trent Richardson, who never fumbles, and Wilson who you have to sort of basically go into every game knowing he's going to cough one up and kill at least one drive.

Now if he clocks a 4.35 in 40 the like Jahvid Best, then that can of course overshadow anything else about him and he could sneak into the last 5-10 picks of Round 1.

As for Danny Coale, I'm not that high on him. He seems like J.A.G. as far as slot receivers go. I mean, he's no Dane Sanzenbacher!

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Yeah physical isn't Wilson's problem, as you're not finding many 208 lb backs grinding that hard every single carry. If anything he runs so hard to the point that he's twisting/driving for every yard...which leads him to explosing the ball and fumbling. D's smartly picked up on this, so it did amplify some b/c of that. If I hadn't seen that theme for most of his fumbles, then I'd be more concerned. He simply needs to tone down the, drag the pile 2 more yards deal, and he should be fine.

Wilson is a doubled edged sword to me. He really is gonna light the combine UP. He's right in that is like a track meet, and his athleticism is gonna test off the charts. He was an All-American triple jumper this past spring. I suppose he could set whatever record for jumping distance. He's also gonna blister the 40. I cannot imagine Lamar Miller or Richardson beat him in a 40. Plus we already know about 10 backflips, catching a rabbit bare handed, running up the basketball coliseum columns, etc.

My thing with Wilson is he had poor vision. I like Miller better as an overall back, as I think his vision is better. Wilson has better athleticism. To me it comes down to what kind of team you are, what back you already roster and what you're niche gap is. If you need more of an overall, I'd take Miller. If you're the Jets, and you can combine Wilson with a sledgehammer Greene, you take Wilson in a heartbeat. The thing you have to understand about VT is they'll continue to slam a square peg in a round hole when it comes to running the ball. Our last two games of the year, thats all we did. NLF O coordinators aren't gonna make the same stupid mistake. They'll realize he is a TERROR in space, esp with a head of steam you're not gonna stop him usually. Yet he is very physical, will leg drive/drag a pile almost every carry too. So a smart NLF coordinator will realize its RBush speed, with actual legit between the tackles power. Thats getting you're money's worth imo. Hang up is I don't know how you improve his vision, b/c I didn't see that improve much. Only caveat is he was probably strong enough at breaking arm tackles that I'm not sure he realizes its as much of a decficiency as it probably is.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Wilson’s Miami flip, keep running and then drag more people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MazffVhy ... re=related

A little perspective on his speed…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7xTtdsekUE

Just happened to stumble upon this one, geez is TRichardson yoked…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0HWgNWs ... re=related

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:25 pm 
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:beef: Danny Coale has been slept on his whole life, dude is not only gonna get drafted higher than you think, but have a nice, long NFL career.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:46 pm 
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widetrak21 wrote:
:beef: Danny Coale has been slept on his whole life, dude is not only gonna get drafted higher than you think, but have a nice, long NFL career.

We'll see. He's not a bad player. And I thought he and Tyrod played very well together. I just don't see him bringing a lot to the table offensively. I don't see anything more than average hands and ball skills in the games I saw. I think he might have a brighter future as a punter than as a wide receiver. I just see a bunch of WRs in this draft that are bigger, faster, and/or stronger, with better hands and look more natural catching the ball, that I think have more upside than him, and coupled with all of the good slot WRs already in the league, I just don't see him doing much besides playing special teams. The comparison I would make is a guy like Jimmy Farris. Remember him? Played 1 or 2 years with us as our No. 5/ST wide receiver. Almost exact same size, probably about the same in terms of speed, although Coale might be a step quicker, and Farris was a capable receiver, just not good enough to beat NFL corners enough to merit any real playing time. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... rrJi00.htm

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:46 pm 
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I don't see anything more than average hands and ball skills in the games I saw.

Whoa, you're misinformed on this one...I can probably count on one hand the amount of times over 4 years that I can remember him dropping a ball. Plus I don't think I can recall one critical drop ever, and he caught that crazy ball in the Michgan game and the end to boot (don't get me started, VT fans have enlarged the pics to prove it out beyond reasonable doubt).

With Coale, you have to start getting into intangibles, and you know better than to simply fawn over body metrics. The position requires so much more than that. He runs good routes, is smart, always where he's supposed to be, underrated seperation (and the route running really helps too) and really, really knows how to settle down in open spots to be open for the qb. Utility punting/field goal kicker legit ability. Lots of special teams ability, which will be key for him. Its hard to get better value in the 3rd/4th round than you're gonna get from this kid.
~~~~~~~
Read below if you wanna know the deal...

http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/3 ... impression

Virginia Tech senior Danny Coale has been a standout receiver, punter and punt returner for the ACC’s Coastal Division champs this year.

No biggie. He can handle all of that.

It was his “Finance Concepts and Skills” class that really threw him for a loop this past summer. Assistant professor Derek Klock, Coale said, was an ex-military man who was “very intimidating.”

“I went in the class and introduced myself after the first class,” Coale said. “I told him I was involved in football. He said, 'What do you run the 40 in?' I said, 'Oh, you know, 4.4, in that area.' He said, 'Well, for this class, you’re going to have to run faster.' At that moment I knew I was in for something unique. I’m sure he laughed about that for a while, but I was a deer in headlights.

"He's a punter, he's a receiver, and the classroom is just another dimension of who he is and what he can do," Virginia Tech quarterback Logan Thomas said of receiver Danny Cole.“I was on pins and needles every day trying to follow the finance world and make sure I had my current events right,” Coale said. “I would go to the library every night to study and make sure I didn’t fall behind. I’ve never spent so much time in the library and never been challenged like that. It ended up being really, really rewarding.”

Meet Danny Coale -- the poster boy for the NCAA’s “student-athlete.” He’s a record-setting receiver. He’s this year’s winner of the Jim Tatum Scholar Athlete Award. And he’s a big reason this year’s senior class has a chance to go out as the winningest bunch in school history if it can beat Michigan in the Allstate Sugar Bowl. Oh, and he’s also a recent graduate of Virginia Tech, thanks in part to a hard-earned B-plus in Klock’s class.

“It’s tough to even describe Danny. He’s one of the greatest guys I’ve ever met in my life,” said quarterback Logan Thomas. “He can do it all. He’s a punter, he’s a receiver, and the classroom is just another dimension of who he is and what he can do. It’s very nice to have a guy like that on our team. It makes not only the team better, but the people on the team better.”

Yet Coale has somehow been one of the most underrated players in the ACC throughout his career. He set the school freshman reception record with 36 catches, he has at least two catches in 44 of 54 career games, and at least one catch in 50 of 54 games. He had his longest and most important catch in the final minutes of the 2009 Nebraska game, when he broke free down the sideline for an 81-yard gain to set up the game-winning touchdown pass with 21 seconds left. Regardless of what Virginia Tech's offense does against Michigan in the Sugar Bowl, Coale has already left his mark on the program and those within it.

“He’s just neat,” said coach Frank Beamer. “He really is neat. He’s really -- you look at him and he’s a really good football player. He’s smart, he understands the game, and that shows out there. I think he’s sneaky fast. He gets away from you before you realize he’s there. He’s just the total package. You feel so proud he represents Virginia Tech, and that he’s been with you here in your program for four years and what a delight he’s been. What a great representative he’s been, and how many big plays he’s been involved in here at Virginia Tech. He’s special, real special.”


Coale has a career average of 16.3 yards per catch. He enters the Sugar Bowl with 157 career receptions for 2,541 yards and seven touchdowns. His 157 receptions and his 2,541 yards are both the second-best in school history, trailing Jarrett Boykin in both. What has separated him from many, though, has been his ability to juggle multi-tasking on the field while maintaining a high regard for his academics.

“I kind of have the same approach to everything,” Coale said. “I try to work hard at everything. I know people in the football world are probably tired of hearing that, but I have classes that are challenging, and that’s something I look forward to, meeting that challenge and working hard to get better at that. It’s the same thing on the field. It takes a little bit of a balance, but as long as you do what you’re told you find success.”

This past spring, Coale was a surprise at the top of the depth chart at punter. He punted in high school, but hadn’t since, until doing it twice at Marshall and then at Virginia, where he averaged 47.5 yards on four punts. He hit a 61- and a 60-yarder in the ACC championship game, prompting many to wonder where that aspect of the Hokies’ special teams had been all season.

“It was really exciting,” Coale said. “It was like high school all over again. It was something I said I always wanted to do. To be able to do it in a championship game and do not horrible at it was cool. It was refreshing and fun. That’s what it’s all about, having fun and playing the position you love, and that’s kind of how it was."

Despite his degree in finance and second undergraduate degree in marketing management, Coale will first try to live out his dream of playing in the NFL.

“I’ll definitely try the next level, give that a shot. It’s something I’ve always wanted to do since I was little,” he said. “What football player wouldn’t tell you that? But it’s something I’ve waited 23 years for the opportunity. I’ve been blessed and fortunate enough to be in the position to do that now. I might give punting a shot, see how that works out. I don’t really know.”

If it’s like anything else Coale has tried, odds are he’ll find a way to make it work -- or work until he finds a way.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:05 pm 
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I got another VT tape to watch (the bowl game), so I might see something different. But in the other 4 VT games I saw this year, I never saw Coale as anything more than a ST player. He's sure-handed, but that's not the same as saying he has good hands. I see a guy that lets the ball get into his body too much as a receiver, even though I have seen him make some good diving grabs away from his body.

I haven't collated all of the data together to come up with a cohesive profile and analysis, so it's still open to change. But right now, the grade I have on him is a 2.5, which would correspond with...

2.4-2.6 - Might be a productive college player that is usually lacking in several key areas that make you think their ability to stick on the next level is limited. Usually players that can only play on special teams, and have the skillset to be effective there. But if he is asked to contribute offensively or defensively, he'll be overmatched in all but the most limited role.

With Coale, what I saw was a good player, but what I consider to be an average college slot receiver. I don't want this to sound condescending, but over the course of this year, I saw over 50 receivers. And I used to do this too when I first starting scouting a decade ago when I was still at Pitt, but I would overrate Pitt prospects NFL chances because I was seeing a lot more of those guys, and was unable to put them in proper context when comparing them to other prospects. I think you tend to do this a lot with Tech players, seeing camp bodies as solid backups, and solid backups as potential starters, and potential starters as perennial Pro Bowlers, etc.

I think he's a marginal draft prospect. I don't see him being the next Wes Welker or Danny Amendola or Victor Cruz or Davone Bess, notably all undrafted players that have developed into above average to good slot receivers. Could I be wrong? Of course. But I just don't see enough from Coale's game translating offensively that makes me think he'll beat the odds. Your average NFL draft will have between 30-35 wide receivers drafted, and over 50% of those guys won't even make to the end of their rookie contract. And thus, I think he's a guy that will have to live and die by his special teams ability. Sort of similar to Kerry Meier, who was another player that I just didn't see that he had what it took to succeed as an offensive asset on the next level. But Meier was a very good, and productive college player, that I gave a similar grade to when he came out (~2.5).

He has the sort of toughness and on-field character that I think will make him into a very good special teams player potential. And if he can shine there maybe he can turn into a top notch gunner on punts. But as far as that translating to offense, I just don't see it.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Quote:
** Let’s start with Wilson, who by all accounts had a strong day. The running back didn’t quite meet his goal of running in in the low 4.3′s in the 40-yard dash, finishing with a time of 4.49 seconds, seventh at his position. But that figure isn’t necessarily considered slow. And Wilson put his track background to use for the rest of the day, excelling in the remaining workouts.

Wilson had the best vertical (41 inches) and broad jump (11 feet) of the running backs by sizable margins (three inches in the vertical; nine inches in the broad jump). He had the second best vertical of the day (UConn WR Kashif Moore was at 43.5 inches) and the second best broad jump (Georgia Tech WR Stephen Hill edged him by an inch at 11-1). Wilson finished tied for third among running backs in the 20-yard shuttle (4.12 seconds), was fourth in the 60-yard shuttle (11.59) and was 10th in the three-cone drill (7.09).

More importantly, he did well in the pass catching drills. ESPN’s Todd McShay said Wilson

Sports Illustrated labeled him a riser, saying he “ran terrific routes, showed soft hands and did a great job catching the deep ball.” NFL analyst and Hall of Fame running back Marshall Faulk praised him for his hands and “good feet,” sounding a bit surprised by what he saw. Wilson also impressed the NFL brass by showing up in a suit for interviews the day before. This is nothing new for fans of Virginia Tech, but it is apparently unique for the combine.

While Alabama’s Trent Richardson is all but guaranteed to be the first running back off the board, Wilson put himself in a good position to be considered for the second back taken. So too did Miami’s Lamar Miller, who had a solid showing of his own, posting a 4.40-second time in the 40, fastest of the running backs. Draft gurus seem to think neither of them will be taken until the second round, although there’s plenty of time for that to change prior to April’s draft.

** Coale did exactly what you’d expect him to, going out and having a solid day all-around. He started by running a 4.50-second time in the 40, not blazing, but still tied for 13th among receivers. He timed well in the three-cone drill, finishing second among receivers in 6.69 seconds, and the 60-yard shuttle, finishing tied for fourth in 11.22 seconds.

According to our columnist, Tom Robinson, who was in Indy, Coale excelled in the position drills, catching every ball thrown his way. For someone who was not going to impress scouts with his size, this was probably the most important thing for Coale.


Quote:
INDIANAPOLIS -- For a lesser-known prospect, it is hard to imagine how a player could do any better than Virginia Tech receiver Danny Coale, who sailed through the gauntlet drill at full speed without coming close to dropping a single pass.

They could create a "how-to" video based on Coale's performance for next year’s young prospects.

As the NFL coaches put receivers through 10 different routes from both sides of the field, Coale stood out Sunday at the Scouting Combine based on his precise route-running and soft hands.

He's quick to become a runner after the catch and showed a burst to separate coming out of his breaks. He has the size (6-foot, 201), quickness and route-running skills to play either on the outside or inside as a slot receiver at the next level.

After a highly productive career with the Hokies under several different quarterbacks, Coale came to Indianapolis with a solid middle-round draft grade by many scouts.

Now after a strong performance at the Combine where he ran the 40 in the low 4.4s Coale will climb up draft boards, possibly into the second or third round.

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... z1nbmzocA5

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:31 pm 
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I will be utterly shocked if Danny Coale goes on the 2nd day of the draft. 6th/7th round maybe.

Over the past 3 years, an average of 14.3 WRs have been drafted in the first 3 rounds. Over the past 5 years, the average is 13.2. Being a 3rd round pick obviously makes you one of the Top 98-100 picks taken in the draft.

So for Coale to be a Day 2 pick by being a 2nd/3rd round pick would mean that someone thinks he's one of the 15 best WRs in this draft. And that's utterly ridiculous if you ask me. He's not even the best pro WR on his team, even though I know Boykin's slow 40 (4.74 official) probably means he won't get drafted unless he can get a 4.55 or faster at Tech's pro day.

He's ranked 36th by NFL Draft Scout, 38th by Draft Countdown, 29th by Draft Ace. I know Scouts Inc. at ESPN has him ranked 19th, which I'm dumbfounded to see because pretty much the next 10-15 players they have ranked behind him are either more natural, instinctual WRs or more dynamic IMO than he is.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:52 pm 
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We shall see like always :mrgreen: . I may be slightly overvaluing him, you may be slightly undervaluing him, which probably equates to a 4-5 round pick, which I think is appropriate. I try not to put my vt blinders on, but it is something to be cognizant of when you bleed your collegiate colors. I do think I used to overvalue them many years ago when I hadn't seen the entire process through enough times. But now I follow recruiting from high school to college, then college to draft, then nfl career. Now I realize some of the metric guys fizzle for stupid reasons, and some low metric guys stick b/c of underated intangibles. So I don't want to overinlate Coale, but hes not gonna be a bad draft pick at the end of the day. Rosterable receiver, good potential in the slot, major special teams ability as a punt returner, punter and kickoffs. Did the best at the gauntlet drill and had a great cone time, plus a respectable forty. Great hands. If I'm a very passing oriented team, I could do way worse in the 5th round range I believe.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:16 pm 
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You're right, we shall see. And I could be eating a big plate of crow a number of ties in the future in regards to where Coale gets drafted, and in regards to what sort of pro player he becomes.

I guess a similar player was Brian Hartline a few years ago, who was a player that I saw as a player that had good speed, but questionable hands and was destined to be a mediocre backup in the NFL. Well he got drafted in the 4th round which surprised me, and has since managed to turn into a solid No. 3 WR that can make some big plays down the field in Miami.

I just don't see Coale being that sort of player. I thought he was sneaky good last year when Taylor was the QB, but I think that was because defenses focused so much on containing Taylor and the running game, that he was able to make some plays last year. But this year, granted there has been some erratic play at QB from Thomas, but I just don't see a guy that is going to consistently beat man coverage, which you need to be able to do in order to be an above average No. 3 or more, which I think is what you're looking for at the very least when you draft a WR in the first 4 rounds.

Now then again, I didn't think Hartline was that sort of player either, just a vertical threat that didn't have reliable hands. And while I think that assessment is largely correct, he has managed to be a far more effective WR than I thought he would be.

And the two at least in terms of measurables are very comparable.

Hartline at the 2009 Combine:

Height: 6015
Weight: 195
40 yards: 4.52
Vertical: 34.5"
Broad: 10'0"
Short Shuttle: 4.12
3 Cone: 6.65

Coale:

Height: 6002
Weight: 201
40 yards: 4.50
Vertical: 35.0"
Broad: 9'7"
Short Shuttle: 4.15
3 Cone: 6.69

So when I watch that VT bowl game (hopefully this weekend), you've convinced me to take a much harder look at Coale during that game in case I have missed something...

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:04 pm 
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So when I watch that VT bowl game (hopefully this weekend), you've convinced me to take a much harder look at Coale during that game in case I have missed something...

:mrgreen: Nice. The Hartline comparison may be very apt, although I'm not too sure about his nfl career other than what you mentioned. The only thing you're off about on Coale is he has very good hands, as evidenced by the catch at the end of that game, plus being butter in the gauntlet drill. FYI, he's a tough kid too, had a full ride from H.S. to play scholarship lacross at UVA (which is a big deal if you play lacrosse), but chose football instead. And I don't think its his speed that gets him open/seperation, its probably the precision to detail in his route running, fakes, etc.. Of course it will certainly get tougher trying to shake an nfl db, but the 4.50 flat was faster than I thought he'd time (for comparison Wilson ran a 4.49 fwiw), and maybe by a good margin too. The cone time was even more of a surpise, but sets him up well to run the slot.

If you're gonna watch that tape, it was a defensive clinic on shutting down Denard Robinson. That D may rival an Alabama/LSU next year, as it was mostly full of sophomores. I would think easily a top five D for 2012. Plus someone like Bruce Taylor was out practically all year, plus one of our bell cow DT's too. You can tell Foster is excited too fwiw.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Speaking of Taylor, he's a player I've liked in the past. I think he's one of the more underrated run and hit LBs out there. Which is what I mean by the guys that see ball, go get ball. He didn't show the sort of instincts I like to see in a potential NFL middle linebacker this past year, but against as a run and hit player, you can find a very nice home in the NFL as a weakside linebacker. That's basically the type of player that Sean Weatherspoon is, although I think Spoon's instincts are pretty good and much better than your typical NFL WILL.

But I do think that instincts at least can come with added experience. Will Witherspoon was essentially a run and hit guy coming out of Georgia, played that way for years in Carolina, and then went to St. Louis where he was a pretty good MLB for a few years. Demorrio Williams was not very instinctual here in Atlanta, but in KC has been an effective at times ILB in their 3-4. Navorro Bowman was another guy that I questioned his instincts coming out of college, but in terms of straight-line speed/burst coming downhill on the football, he was very good at Penn State. And he was arguably better this past year than the best MLB in the league in Patrick Willis.

So that could potentially develop for Taylor 3-5 years down the line. It'll be interesting to see how strong he comes back from injury. Because I really thought he was a beast out there as a sophomore, mainly because he had very good downhill burst. The good thing is that foot injuries like he had aren't usually known to really hurt guys there.

Speaking of Tech LBs (or rather ex-Tech), I saw Jake Johnson led South Alabama this past year with 83 tackles. And of course they will be joining the Sun Belt this year. So apparently, his decision to transfer there instead of another FBS school and sitting out last year was pretty smart move.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:55 pm 
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Jake Johnson couldn't hack it on a Foster D, esp w/ Foster coaching LB's specifically as his position group. One of those guys that looked like Tarzan and tried to play like it, but basically could never learn to not stick his nose where it didn't belong. With Foster, you'd better play your gap or else. Can't run yourself past/our of easy tackles. He got demoted, saw that he was gonna get depth chart buried, then transferred. Sad cause he had the physicality, but not the mental.

Bruce Taylor is a real good MLB prospect. Easily the biggest middle VT has probably ever had, sorta an SEC sized guy, but with speed. Plays with a mean streak, uber willing tackler. No small deal when he went down last year. He's on the road to recovery. Easily the best MLB VT has had since Vince Hall, but Hall was really never pro material after his jet ski accident and resulting microfracture surgery that didn't go great (even though his mlb intincts were 2nd to none). As far as pro, he's either a middle or will like you mentioned.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:48 pm 
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Well guys with Johnson's speed can always find a role in the NFL on special teams at the very least.

I was a fan of Vince Hall, and thought he was a better NFL prospect than Curtis Lofton (I graded both as 3rd round picks). Agreed, thought he was a super-smart guy. Injury kiled his NFL prospects. I was also surprised at how underwhelming an NFL career Xavier Adibi has had. His problem in Houston was that he wasn't very good run defender at the point of attack, which is hard to overcome in the NFL because so much of being a good NFL linebacker vs. the run is be able to get off blocks. And if you can't then, you'd be better be either super fast and/or smart enough to anticipate things. Thought Adibi could be able to get by with his speed. But I guess he's just Ernie Sims, but won't get the sort of opportunities that Sims did because he doesn't have that elite athleticism. But I thought he would be able to find a home in a Cover-2 scheme. A similar player such as Geno Hayes has managed to be effective at times in Tampa Bay as a starter despite not really being any better than Adibi.

I agree Taylor definitely is not your typical VT MLB guy, as he does have that SEC-caliber of size, speed, and burst. Saw a lot of flashes of that 2 years ago.

Only got to see Taylor once this year, in the first Clemson game, and he struggled at times at the point of attack, which is concerning to me as a MLB. I saw a few times where a guy like Andre Ellington was able to juke him in the hole, or where he got engulfed by O-linemen at the point. MLBs have to be able to win at the point of attack, esp. when they get those 1 on 1 situations vs. teh RB in the hole. It's understandable that a guy can't beat a 300-pound OG esp. in the NFL, but you want a guy to be able to beat the lesser athletes in college.

I also noticed in that game, that the Tech LBs seemed to be keying on the run first, and then dropping into coverage. That got Taylor in trouble a couple of times. That coverage ability I think will be the biggest key to how well he can play at the next level, his ability to help out on 3rd downs.

If you're not going to be be able to contribute much on 3rd downs, then you really need to be really good on 1st & 2nd down. And with some of his struggles in that Clemson game, I'm not quite as high on Taylor's ability to be an impact run defender. That's one of the things I've learned with evaluating LBs as they translate to the NFL level, is that you need to really excel in something, or be ready solid at most things, otherwise you're just going to be a special teams guy/journeyman.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:55 pm 
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Tony Pauline wrote:
Thursday, March 15, 12:22 p.m.

• Virginia Tech has finished their pro day, and it was receiver Danny Coale that turned heads.

The steady pass catcher bettered his time of 4.42 seconds from the combine, clocking as fast as 4.37 seconds today. His vertical jump of 37 inches was a two-inch improvement from Indianapolis, while Coale bettered his broad jump mark by 8.5 inches, leaping 10-3 1/2. One of the most underappreciated receivers in the draft, Coale interviewed well at the combine and impressed NFL decision makers with his maturity. He entered the season with late-round grades, but now has the possibility to break into the third round.

Jarrett Boykin was another Hokie wideout who improved his marks from Indianapolis. Boykin's best time of 4.57 seconds was .05 faster than his combine mark.

Several players that did not attend the combine also posted solid numbers.

Safety Eddie Whitley cracked the 4.4-second mark on a number of watches, clocking as fast as 4.38 seconds in the 40.

Chris Hill, a talented cornerback who struggled to break into the deep Hokie secondary, gave scouts a lot to think about with his numbers. Hill touched 37 inches in the vertical jump, completed 13 reps on the bench press and ran 40 times that stopped watches between 4.37 and 4.45 seconds. His three-cone mark of 6.78 seconds and short shuttle time of 4.08 seconds were also impressive. Hill earned an invitation to camp this summer with his pro day performance.

Versatile Chris Drager, who lined up at tight end and linebacker for the Hokies, ran times in the mid 4.8s and posted a three-cone time of 7.13 seconds. He's another who will get into a camp this summer, and Drager should be a demon on special teams.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z1pJNKZnCO

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:01 pm 
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:shock: 8-)
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The steady pass catcher bettered his time of 4.42 seconds from the combine, clocking as fast as 4.37 seconds today.


Boykin, I'm guessing 3-4th round or later. Uber-productive WR, most prolific in vt history. Good hands, really good blocker, runs savvy enough routes (even though obv his deficiency is deeper speed). I think he sticks in the nfl, but def gonna have to continue working at the next level to get open. His size is great, so on a more run oriented team he gets a boost.

Eddie Whitley is very interesting, qb of the VT d at FS. A good thats good at everything, great at nothing. I know he played just about every spot in the secondary over his career, so you know he's smart and versitile. I think that 40 time is great, I didn't think he'd time quite that well. His problem is he may be a bit undersized for an nfl S, but he could stick if he gets a camp invite. Cody Grimm stuck for the Bucs.

Cris Hill, the enigma. Always blazing fast, thats his norm of a 40. His brain is what kept him from not starting until his senior year, and even then Kyle Fuller (VT's best overall defender to me) pushed him into nickel a lot. Hard to say what happens, but he probably doesn't stick unless he really shows him spec teams ability (which he should have). It will be interesting what camp he gets to, and he'll be better off undrafted so he can pick a needy team.

Chris Drager, literally played TE, DE, DE, TE over his 4 year career. So he def never ever even got remotely close to realizing his potential. But VT needed someone to be flexible and Mr. Rhoade Scholar was it with the smarts and athleticism. He's not a DE. He is a verrrrrry interesting project at TE for a smart team. He'll learn the playbook in a week and maybe finally start to long-term sync his teeth into a position. I don't see him drafted fwiw.

Looked like Wilson put down an even better 40 at tech, which those times are more what I thought he'd run (although he blisted every other drill).

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Just a little nugget I came across...

Quote:
According to STATS X-Info, Virginia Tech RB David Wilson led the nation in yards after contact in 2011.
Wilson's 990 yards after contact were 267 more than Trent Richardson's, and the sample size isn't skewed. Wilson had 290 carries to Richardson's 283. According to the National Football Post's Dan Pompei, the STATS X-Info is being used by "several teams" preparing for the draft in two weeks.


Other most interesting thing I just read was where teams are on Tannehill. Seems Seattle, even with Flynn, would take him in a heartbeat. Then on the other end of the spectrum, Holmgren was trying to finally decide if he's worth it at #4, or to simply go with Richardson.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:41 pm 
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Unfortunately, there is a sizable gap between being the #4 overall pick, where Cleveland is picking and being the #12 overall pick, where Seattle is.

I think this is attested in a recent example with Josh Freeman and Mark Sanchez. The Jets were picking at #17, and then traded up to #5 to get Sanchez. Tampa Bay was picking at #19 and traded up to get Freeman at #17. Josh Freeman has a terrible rookie season, then is good in Year 2, and then bad in Year 3. Sanchez while never good in any particular year, but the Jets have had a lot of success under Sanchez, much more than the Bucs.

But 3 years later, the Jets are practically giving up on Sanchez because he has not produced the results that his draft status warrants, versus Freeman who nobody was talking about replacing. If the Jets were picking at #5, everybody would be saying that they need to take Tanneyhill, yet nobody is saying that if he happens to be there with the Bucs are picking at #5.

Yes, Freeman is a better QB than Sanchez. But the gap between them especially coming off last year is probably not that huge. Like the days of Carson Palmer sitting for an entire season are over. Too many good rookie QBs have existed in the past 5 years to make that a possibility. But the reality is that outside Ryan, Roethlisberger, Flacco, Newton, Dalton, VY, and Bradford, there really haven't been that many good rookie QBs. Guys like Russell, Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman, Ponder, Gabbert, Cutler, Leinart, McCoy, Trent Edwards, Clausen, Eli, Alex Smith, etc. really weren't that good as rookies. And in truth, outside Roethlisberger and Ryan, you can argue that even the so-called good rookies, were really just nothing more than average QBs that year, and their respective teams would have won a comparable amount of games with a comparably average to above average QB.

And now the problem is that with all of the guys that come in now, they have to be at least competent if not very good as rookies or else. Like everybody has pretty much given up on Gabbert, Clausen. And guys like Eli and Alex Smith were equally as bad, but came up in an era where you could get away with being bad. But they aren't.

That's the unfortunate pressure that will come for Tanneyhill, a guy that really does need a year. It's not to say he can't keep his head above water (similar to Ponder) if he was a rookie starter, but it's not going to make him a better football player, which is the popular belief out there. People forget guys like Carson Palmer, Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers, Matt Hasselbeck, Chad Pennington, all sat for 1-3 years before they got their shot.

The early round QBs that sit and only play in Year 2-4 and the correspondence of success they have is way higher than the early round guys that play right away, and nobody acknowledges this. And people wonder why these coaches/GMs get fired eventually. It's basically betting against the House. The odds are stacked in the Casino's favor and you have to be smarter and more patient if you want to make money.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Quote:
And now the problem is that with all of the guys that come in now, they have to be at least competent if not very good as rookies or else.


Yeah its been a whole new set of expectations for rookie qb's (since Ryan/Flacco), and couple that with the increase in passing offenses and it may as well be totally different now. Good ex on Freeman, b/c he'd be Tannehill this year. Interesting way to put in perspective the heat on Sanchez vs. Freeman too. I think NYC vs. Tampa as cities probably help a little, but the draft spot and trade up cut the other way. Its sorta gotten to the point that if you don't feel you have a "franchise" qb, then you may as well not even compete for a SB. Ie. Dolphins

CRAAAAAZY stat I read yesterday. Past 20 or so years, only 2-3 successful franchise qb's drafted in round 2. Brees, sorta on a Jake Plummer and potentially Andy Dalton. Thats it. Might not be helping the above on pushing guys way too high into round 1 (ie. Ponder).

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:14 pm 
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I think a big part of the problem is that the pressure to have a good QB forces teams to reach on 2nd/3rd tier QBs. Ponder, Locker should not have been Top 15 picks last year. I like Tanneyhill, but he shouldn't be a Top 15 pick this year either.

It's funny how teams will reach for a guy like Ponder, but will completely pass on signing a guy like Kyle Orton. Is Ponder really going to be a significantly better QB than him or Jason Campbell or David Garrard? I like Ponder, but I think he's really just another Matt Cassel-level guy. You can have him as the QB on a team that has a strong running game and a top-level defense, but he's not going to make your average team more than average.

And I think teams get so desperate that they start hoping that the Christian Ponders of the world are going to be more than what they really are going to be. And if I'm a team, I'm not going to get desperate for a player that I don't think is going to be a better QB than Jay Cutler. I think Cutler is like close to the bottom rung of the "upper tier" of QBs. Everybody else is J.A.G.

And if he is J.A.G., then why should I draft him in the first round. I'd argue Tanneyhill has "Cutler-plus" potential, but probably only if he sits for 2+ years. And if that's the case, then that isn't worth using a Top 10 pick. If I was Seattle, I'd probably take him at No. 12. But that's probably the highest I would draft him. Maybe KC at #11, but only because they don't have any huge needs.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:30 pm 
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Quote:
And I think teams get so desperate that they start hoping that the Christian Ponders of the world are going to be more than what they really are going to be.


Nail = Head. To add to that, I heard multiple times this week that Tannehill had been rated AT seasons ends between ver late first, all the way to an early third, which probably equated to a 2nd round pick. Thats where Ponder should have went, if not lower b/c he doesn't have Tannehill's athleticism. Flash fwd and now all of a sudden Tannehill's a top 15 pick. Thats it in a nutshell, talking yourself into a qb b/c you need one that badly. Gonna be real interesting to see what Miami does at 8, b/c the decision on Tannehill (like Ryan year ago) will affect the direction of their franchise for the next 3-5 years. If a Tannehill with one seasons work basically and metrics, gets a 1+ round bump, I can't imagine someone like Logan Thomas not being the #1 pick at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:56 pm 
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Yeah, for once the Bengals did it right waiting until Round 2 to get a solid QB in Andy Dalton.

The Andy Daltons, Kirk Cousins, Landry Joneses, Christian Ponders, Chad Hennes, Jason Campbells, Kyle Ortons, etc. of the world are constantly available to me. Those guys come around every year in the draft, and they are the sort of FAs that don't get the big money, long-term deals. Every year, there are going to be 2-5 of those guys available to me. And if he falls to me at pick #35 or pick #65, then I'll happily draft/sign him.

Those guys are a dime a dozen.

And sometimes you'll think you're getting more than that in the Top 5 with someone like David Carr, Mark Sanchez, or Alex Smith and they'll just turn into one of those guys. And that's the risk you run.

I like Tanneyhill, but I think he's got huge bust potential because whatever team drafts him is going to rush him too early, and he's not going to be Matt Ryan and instantly change a team's fortunes. If he had the Aaron Rodgers treatment, and had to sit for 2 or 3 full years, I think he could/would turn out spectacular.

Like I think Cleveland is probably going to dump Colt McCoy after this year, and I think McCoy isn't going to be an elite QB, but I think he can be more than good enough to bridge the gap between now and whenever that QB comes along.

I know a lot of people are currently down on Ryan, but IMHO, if you look at the QBs that have come out over the past 7 years, Ryan is 2nd only to Big Ben in terms of who was the best in terms of immediate success and given the sheer amount of pressure he was under. That type of player is relatively rare that you might come across every 4 or 5 years (presumably Luck & RG3 are the next in line).

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 Post subject: Re: COMBINE!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:04 pm 
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I know a lot of people are currently down on Ryan, but IMHO, if you look at the QBs that have come out over the past 7 years, Ryan is 2nd only to Big Ben in terms of who was the best in terms of immediate success and given the sheer amount of pressure he was under.


I would tend to agree, and thats without us doing one thing to craft an offense around his true skill set (minus dabbling in no huddle). I hope the battleship starts to turn in that regard this year, otherwise when would we ever find out?

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