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Marcus Camp, a season-ticket holder since the Falcons moved into the Georgia Dome 20 years ago, doesn’t think the team needs a new stadium, especially not at taxpayer expense.

If one is built, however, he favors a retractable roof that can be opened to “Atlanta’s sunshine and blue skies” and closed when “it is below 40 degrees and raining.”

Falcons fans such as Camp don’t have a seat at the table for the ongoing negotiations between the team and the Georgia World Congress Center Authority, the state agency that operates the Dome and 14 months ago agreed to pursue a deal on a new stadium, but they want to be heard.

Many fans who shared their opinions with The Atlanta Journal-Constitution in interviews and emails objected to the Falcons moving from the Dome to a roof-less, open-air stadium, which is the team’s stated preference. Others endorsed the idea, contending football is meant to be played outdoors. And almost all expressed concern about the cost of a new stadium to taxpayers and ticket buyers.

Parrish Walton, who has had Falcons season tickets for three years, spoke up for the Dome, sort of: “I think the Dome is not as nice, obviously, as these new, ridiculous buildings they have in other cities for the NFL, but I think it serves its purpose. And I don’t think Atlanta fans would go to an open-air stadium in weather that was even remotely poor.”

Michael Smith, a season-ticket holder for 14 years, said he and many who sit near him in Section 202 plan to cancel their tickets if the Falcons move into an open-air stadium at the mercy of the weather. He would prefer a retractable-roof facility such as 4-year-old Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis, where he enjoyed a Falcons-Colts game last season.

Countered John Burke, who attends two or three Falcons games per season: “I prefer outdoor sporting events, even if the weather is less than desirable. I do not want a retractable roof because it makes the lighting in the stadium really weird.”

The possibility of an open-air stadium, which would become the Falcons’ home while the Georgia Dome would continue to house events that require an indoor facility, has gotten the most attention since a GWCC-commissioned study last year determined one could be built on a site a half mile north of the Dome.

But the Falcons and the GWCC Authority also have kept two other options on the table: a new retractable-roof stadium on the nearby site that would replace the Dome and a massive renovation/rebuilding of the Dome with a retractable roof on its current site.

Two years ago, the Falcons objected to a retractable roof because of the added cost, but the continued examination of the possibility underscores the fluidness of the process.


Concerns about cost

Regardless of their roof preference, fans fret the costs of a second football stadium.

“I just don’t see how a city of 5 million people could support two stadiums,” said Tim Brayboy, who is considering buying season tickets. “If [Falcons owner Arthur Blank] wants to spend all his own money and build a stadium next to the Dome, that’s fine, but I don’t see using taxpayer money in these times. If they want to do a retrofit to the Dome and make it retractable, I could see that.”

Burke, among others, expressed concern that ticket prices would skyrocket in a new stadium and that fans would be asked to pay big bucks for permanent seat licenses (PSLs) in order to be eligible to buy season tickets. PSLs often are part of the financing plan for new stadiums, and the Falcons have been noncommittal about whether they would be used here.

“My concern, looking at what has gone on with new stadiums in New York and Dallas, is whether tickets can remain in reach of average folks in the market,” said Carlos Vilela, who became a Falcons fan around the time Blank bought the team. “When I start hearing all the different features a stadium could have — bigger [video] screens, retractable roofs — I start thinking my hot dog is going to go to $9.”

Others said more details need to be unveiled about how a new stadium would enhance the game-day experience.

The Falcons would not comment for this article, citing the ongoing negotiations. The team’s previously stated position is that the organization will have completed its commitment to the Dome when the bonds that funded the building’s construction are paid off late this decade, and that a long-term lease in a new venue will be needed at that point to compete economically with other teams.

Neil Glat, NFL senior vice president of corporate development, said the design trend in new stadiums is toward “buildings that are generally bigger than what the Dome is.” He said the additional square footage doesn’t mean more seats, but “more space for comfort and more space for amenities,” such as club areas, restaurants, larger concourses, team stores, team halls of fame and high-tech fan attractions.

“What’s important to understand is even if a building physically is not obsolete, [it] can become economically obsolete,” said Glat, who works on stadium deals league-wide.

“After 1992, when the Dome opened, the NFL really had a stadium boom. ... You do get to a point where, how do you compete in a league where, economically, people are in newer facilities that have the amenities that allow them to generate the premium dollars needed?”

Said Chicago-based sports business consultant Marc Ganis: “What you find with stadiums is that the economic obsolescence cycle keeps speeding up.”


Who pays?

Lou Bassett, a 10-year Falcons season-ticket holder, said he “understand[s] that Blank needs a new stadium to get his revenue stream competitive with other owners,” but added that he would not be excited as a fan about the team leaving the Dome. “Great place to watch a game, great memories there.”

A number of fans expressed sticker shock at the escalation in stadium costs since the Dome was built for $214 million.

A new stadium is projected to cost about $700 million, plus another $150 million to $200 million if it gets a retractable roof. The Falcons and the GWCC have referred to the project as a public-private partnership, but details have not been worked out about financing.

The Georgia Legislature two years ago agreed to extend the hotel-motel tax from 2020 to 2050 as a funding mechanism for a renovated Georgia Dome or a new stadium on GWCC property. Estimates were that the tax would cover $300 million to $400 million in stadium cost.

Another funding source likely would be the “G-4” stadium-construction program enacted by NFL owners in December. The Falcons, Glat said, would be eligible for as much as $200 million from the league toward a new stadium — provided the team, or Blank, puts up a matching amount to make the total private contribution at least $400 million.

Glat said $50 million of a $200 million league contribution would be a loan to be repaid by the Falcons and another $100 million would be repaid from incremental increases in the visiting-team share of revenues in the new stadium. If the stadium failed to generate sufficient new revenue, the Falcons would be responsible for the balance of the $100 million.

As the complex process continues to develop, some season-ticket holders want the Falcons to seek their input.

“They send us emails about stuff all the time,” said Smith, the 14-year season-ticket holder, “but not once have they asked our opinion about what kind of stadium we’d prefer. That’s my biggest gripe.”

http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-falco ... 10591.html

Fun Gus note*

For the misguided romantics that believe 'football should be played outdoors' because they once froze watching football in the past...Well, back in ;the past' they also didn't have black quarterbacks or the forward pass, either. Move on. This is the ATL, and a goodly percentage of the fan base is African-American Women. I know it's a 'sweeping statement', am I may be wrong as hell...but my experiences with them has lead me to believe they just are not a fan of sitting in the hot September sun. They might show up bundled up when cold: but when sweltering hot? Forget it. Aint gonna happen.

I leraned this lesson when I was a drummer for Cora Mae Bryant, and we did the festival circuit. I loved being in the sun, and she liked being in the shade. It really was just that simple. I tried to get her to go to a Braves Game and she just laughed at me. Miss that old broad she was the best, taught a young Fun Gus alot about things I had no clue. And she introduced me to poke salad.



So you can just kiss that goodbye, and a smaller percentage of men that come to the game not only to meet said females but watch the game might just decide the 'new cost' of the 'new improved' tickets in about 2-3 years after they abandon the games aint worth it. Sure, it will be all unicorns and flowers for the first couple years of the shiny new toy, but after the newness wears off, your going to see a portion of your fanbase quit because they are uncomfortable ( and this goes for everyone) and the concessions, parking and ticket prices ( not even mentioning PSL's) are not worth it anymore.

Now winning a Championship might delay that awhile, but that's the only other way I see this working out well. Otherwise this is going to go over like the Edsel, or todays version: the Chevy Volt.

Maybe it is just AA female singers. I brought this exact thing up at the Roost. We had afemale singe rin agroup I was in and she showed up to play and flatly said, "I won't stand in that direct sunlight." Went home changed into all long sleeves and got an umbrella. And true dat about the Braves games on Sunday at noon. Really has to be experienced to be comprehended. I work in outisde all the time but nothing is quite like frying in in an open stadium for three or four hours.. This is juts BS from FB Propaganda Dept. They need a bigger piece of the pie. There is no fan demand for this. Funny that the one guy pointed to as being in favor and saying football is meant to be played outdoor goes to 2 or 3 games a year. Support for the Falcs is tepid, at best. This whole "debate" sickens me.

Yeah, I thought about that too...But I really believe it must be cultural. For instance, the whole of the 'second line funeral' that is compromised of black umbrellas ( and is the signifying image ) is not due to morbidity: it shields well dressed funeral prcessions from the oppressive Nawlins sun. I just got back from my 5th trip to the Caribbean, and it's instructive to witness well off American Black Folk toting umbrellas, and wearing towels under a baseball cap or such: and then see a guy with the same shade of skin toting a tray of exotic drinks in the direct sunlight, but speaking the Queens English. And there right in the cancerous rays of the sun are the stupid white folk, hoping to finally 'catch some rays'.

I also belive this is regional. A NYG 'African-American' Female Fan ( *whew!*) is probably not going to experience the sizzle of an Atlantan September Sunday, but because thier franchise wins, will suffer a little more. Get a ring, and all bets are off. Staus Quo? Those ladies WONT SHOW.

Like I said, it's all anecdotal, and I could be COMPLETELY wrong. I know thier are exeptions to every rule. But, I do honestly believe if we build an outdoor stadium, and continue to not win a Championship, we are going to lose some of our fan base. A very important part.

YMMV

Yes...I'm tired of the rest of the world having no compassion for us poor pitiful white folks and our sunburns! We've been oppressed and kicked around for too long!

damn Sun! My Irish ancestors curse you

I find it funny that an outdoor stadium in Atlanta could not work, but 60 miles east of the Dome, a 90,000-seat outdoor stadium sells to capacity every weekend. Now, not being a Georgia native, I might be blissfully unaware that the climate differences between Atlanta and Athens, but at least Wikipedia seems to indicate they are almost the exact same in terms of average highs, lows, snowfall, and days of precipitation.

You know what tells me, it has nothing to do with the venue, and has everything to do with the team and the people that support it. Falcon fans use the weather and their aversion to it as a convenient excuse, simply because they lack the fire and drive to really support the Falcons. It's not a real reason to not go to a stadium on a particular day, it's just a cop-out that you use because you're looking for a reason not to go to that stadium on that particularly day.

All I'll say is this, if the Falcons have difficulty selling out a 75,000-seat stadium because it's 93 degrees in September or because it's 43 degrees in December and raining, then every negative thing that people like Rob Parker say about the city and its sports fans is 100% true, and they don't deserve a team.

sorry, Pudge but that is complete horsesh*t. With all doo respect

26,000 enrolled students can go see a saturday game for....2$. That's right, two bucks.

Alumnus is also given a huge break on buying tickets, before they even GET to public sales.

How do I know this? I met my wife at UGA in 1990. She is a third generation Dawg, both her mother AND grandmother attended but did not graduate. A side note, at her graduation, I asked Granny why she and Monster in Law never got thier degrees..She winked at me and told me they did. It was called a 'MRS' (meaning back then they went to school to troll for husbands).

Also, the univeristy is a storied franchise that's been playing football for over 100 years ( 1892 first fielded team). Thier record is 737-396-54. 6 National championships. Not really 'hard' to sell that product out.

I bought my season tickets in 2000 (? ) when Blank lowered the price to ....10$. The same seats are now 4.2x that in 11 years! The Dome sold out when the ticket prices dropped.

So after the public gets the shaft for building this horrible idea, do you think in town folks are going to scramble to sit outside, while paying even MORE and a PSL? Maybe for a short period, but not if this team keeps crapping the bed.

The 'weather' is just one factor: but it IS a factor. So are prices, ease of getting there ( which IMO if they put the stadium where they are saying, shoehorning it next to the GWCC, its going to get worse) and how good the team is.

But pointing to 'UGA' and comparing that to the Falcons is simply silly. Rob Parker wouldn't sit his a$$ in the direct sun in September here, either.

"Build it and they will come".

yeah, that really didnt work out 'too well' with the Olympics

What were you expecting?

not an overpriced, understaffed flea market

....with a religious zealot and his pipe bomb!

But in all likelihood fun gus, you wouldn't have to sit out in the sun. The Falcons aren't going to build a bowl stadium. It's more than likely if they are building an outdoor stadium it will mimic that of Century LInk Field, formerly Qwest Field, home of the Seattle Seahawks, where 70% of the seats are obscured from precipitation, and subsequently shade.

That's all a stadium design. That's not a reason to not build the darn thing.

Your reasons for why people go to UGA games are exactly my point. Yes, weather is a factor. But it should be the smallest factor out there. Maybe in Minneapolis, weather is a huge factor, but in Atlanta it should be relatively inconsequential. Yet you have people like yourself and others talking about it like it's the #1 or #2 factor involved with whether the Falcons should build a new stadium.

There are valid reasons to be pro and anti-stadium. Most of them have to do with economics, logistics, etc. But when I hear people complaining about potential environmental conditions as reasons why they shouldn't have an outdoor stadium is some of the most pathetic stuff I've ever heard. Atlanta is in one of the most temperate regions of the entire United States. You're complaining about the weather, and you live in f**** Atlanta? Seriously? Seriously?

Pudge Wrote:


Look Georgia Bulldog Fans are 10 times more passionate about their team!! Just like Tennessee fans.!!

I will go till I'm dead, but its not an excuse. Perhaps we don't deserve a franchise; but our fans are not looking for an excuse not
to go to games.... Just not to go in the heat or the rain or cold.

If Blank doesn't do his research this will kill him.... He needs that roof!!

On December 24, 1987 (25 years nothing has changed) We had 7,784 people attend vs the Detroit Lions.
Heck they'd get more than that for my high school in Kingsport; Tennessee......

Like I said maybe we don't deserve a franchise; heck they took two hockey teams because we didn't want
to watch a game played on ice!!

Just my 2 cents but out door stadiums are the norm all over Georgia, Alabama, SC. They are packed on game day be it Pro or College. That said, the problem with a Domed or any stadium in Metro Atlanta is parking. Parking and the lack of it makes game day a not so funny joke to out of town fans. I've had season tickets to both UGA and the Falcons and not being a resident of either Athens or Atlanta, the lack of parking made the decision in each case to abandon those tickets. Even if one pays for a space in the 'gulch', one has to get to that space several hours before game time to use that space. Its oversold just like an airplane ticket today.

As a Georgia taxpayer, If i have to pay a penny toward a new Falcon stadium, I want an open stadium (cheaper) in the boonies where parking is plentiful and tailgaiting isn't so crowded I have to fight if a thrown football hits me in the back of the head or in my beer. Ban umprellas and encourge hats and cold weather gear if required. Domes suck IMHO.

ughh. the arrogance.

Pudge, please educate me. What makes you 'believe' the GWCC, this city and the 'powers that be' are going to do due diligence and build such a stadium?

One like the one in....Seattle? Are you kidding me?

Where to even begin? This city is rife with making bad decisions, all the way back to being burned to the ground TWICE.

Your 'cute stats' about the temperature and such? allow me to remind you of this: PLEASE read the FULL article.

http://www.nytimes.com/specials/olympic ... ction.html

some interesting tidbits from a guy who has 'been here'.

"Despite the many friction points, Payne and his colleagues say their primary concerns at this point are the things they cannot control, like international politics and the heat. In his bid to the International Olympic Committee, Payne said the average temperature in Atlanta would be 75 degrees during the Games, 10 degrees lower than last year's average for the same period. "



How many times do we have to have this argument?

Listen, you cannot design a 'comfortable' outdoor stadium here because of 2 things: direct sunlight, and the humidity. How 'humid' do you think the Pacific Northwest is compared to here? They dont have the 'heat'. Miami? Same thing, prevailing sea winds. . New Orleans? Dome. Jax? By the sea.

Houston ( landlocked?) retractable. St Louis and Indy ( midwest, landlocked ) dome or retractable. Arizona. Cities in the SUNBELT ( not mountainous or coastal) like domes for a reason.

There aint an engineer on Earth that could deliver this, even if the corrupt and incompetant City thinks it can. Been there, seen it before...

What I hate is people who have never lived a month here, let alone decades, trying to tell us how our 'temperature' is 'not difficult'. People who did not live thorugh the last Superbowl we had, where it was colder then Buffalo at the exact same time. Folks who 'think' they know about heat, yet scurry inside and complain when they arrive here. Come live here 2 summers, and then lets chat.

Let me clue you in on something. Atlanta is in an very interesting weather and geographic siutation that makes it much different from some other NFL cities, and much more difficult to predict weather 2 months out. I can pretty much tell you what Green Bay is going to be like in January. Here? Not so much. Didn't Dallas get froze out too?

Weather plays a role in the Sunbelt, when there is reasonable options for other things to do. Minnesota? Buffalo? Indy? Yeah, right. That's ALL they got.

They dont got Master Golf. SEC Football. Nascar, and the Braves. 13 colleges, and the best looking single women in the USA ( hands down, Atlanta has it). They dont got it, so of course those idiots would sit in a wind tunnel to see some NFL...

Build it and they will come....for awhile. You better hope you win, though, or you will see blackouts within 6 years.


http://www.gsusignal.com/opinions/new-f ... -1.2719111

Falcons fans and people in Atlanta, guard your wallets and purses. The Georgia Dome turns 20 years old this year, and team owner Arthur Blank, with the full backing of Mayor Kasim Reed, wants taxpayer dollars for his team’s new home.

If there’s one thing NFL owners have in common besides mountains of money, it’s a perpetual stadium inferiority complex—they must have the biggest Jumbotron, the most luxury boxes, and the most extravagant amenities.

Paying for these new sports stadiums is often done through public-private partnerships—the city finds some tax that it can sell to the public, and the team’s owner will match the funds raised.

However, using taxpayer money for a football team is a tough sell in a recession. The General Assembly is getting the message, striking from the 2012 budget $10 million for the Georgia World Congress Center Authority (GWCCA), the government arm operating the Dome.

But that’s not to say that Blank doesn’t have his own power players—Mayor Reed is a major supporter of a new stadium. And what’s worse is that Atlanta’s current hotel tax, overseen by the mayor, extends to 2050.

Why is this bad? Because under Georgia law, local governments have the ability to set their own hotel taxes for projects that “promote tourism” (like NFL stadiums).

After setting the tax, they make a deal with the state, which will sell bonds to pay for the project immediately. The local government will then pay back the state with money it collects from the taxes over a certain time.

So our mayor is sitting on 40 years of a hotel tax, which he can lower in order to increase conventions and visitors to the city. Or he can use the revenue to “promote tourism” by fixing and improving roads in Atlanta, easing transit to tourist sites and everywhere else.

But instead, he’s backing the Falcons, who have entered with the GWCCA talks to build a 65,000 seat, open-air stadium north of the Dome.

This new stadium won’t even replace the Georgia Dome, according to GWCCA director Frank Poe’s comments to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. The Chick-fil-A Bowl, NCAA Tournament, Georgia State football, and other events will stay where they are now.

Ultimately, what we’re left with is a new outdoor stadium to be used eight times a year, unless the city can lure the Super Bowl back to where it was nearly iced out 12 years ago. All the while, we get crumbly roads and miss the chance to bring visitors and their money to Atlanta.

I don't think weather is the determing factor and what goes on in college stadiums around the South has little to do with the Falcons. Furthermore, check attendence when Georgia or Auburn play Appalachian State or the Georgia School for the Blind and Deaf or whatever other tomato can they schedule to pump their stats. College shave built in fan bases with alumni and the student body. The Falcons have essentially done everything possible to stub out a fan base...although unintentionally. I have a feeling they will get their stadium despite the fact that I've hardly heard a single fan complain about the Doem and that I have a washing machine older than it is that works perfectly well. John O is right. Put it in the boonies with parking. BnB says put it on the outskirts of Auburn and I'll renew my STs! The posturing of ownership and th eleague is so freaking corny it's ridiculous. I remember well alll of it that went on before the Dome was built. Spending a nickel of public funds on this is unacceptable policy.

Those are valid reasons to not build the stadium that have nothing to do with the weather. Like I said, there are plenty of reasons why they should not build a stadium, but weather is not one of those reasons.

I live in the Raleigh-Durham area in North Carolina, where the climate is similar to what it is in Atlanta. If they built an outdoor stadium here, nobody would bat an eye. Yet they do in Atlanta. And I guess what I'm driving at, is that the issues with the weather, are just a mask for what really is the issue in Atlanta: the fickleness of the fan base.

While there are plenty of die-hard Falcon fans out there, there aren't as much to really make attendance be inconsequential like there is in a lot of other cities. Most of the strongest fan bases in this league come from northeastern cities or midwestern cities, where the history of the NFL is heavily tied to blue-collar towns like Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Boston, etc.

College football is king in the Deep South.

It all leads to a virtual no-win situation for Arthur Blank.

In order to get his revenue stream up, which is among the lowest in the NFL he needs a new stadium. Sure, he could renovate the Dome, but the amount of renovations he would need to do would probably take so much time that the Falcons might have to play in Dodd stadium for a year or two, and I don't think anybody really wants that.

But the point is, you present these issues with the weather, like they are unique to only Atlanta, and they are not. Most other places that have NFL cities have a lot more adverse weather conditions they have to deal with in the late summer/fall/winter than Atlanta. If you were ranking NFL cities that least require a dome, Atlanta would definitely be in the Top 5.

In other NFL cities, the adverse weather conditions are part of the character of the team. But not the case in Atlanta. And that doesn't have anything to do with the actual weather, it has everything to do with the fact that the Falcons have been a bottom-feeding franchise for most of the nearly 50 years they've existed.

I think the hope for Blank is that by the time a new stadium is built (2018??), that some of that character will be re-infused into the city and team with a steady tradition of winning. But we all know that the winning the "hearts and minds" of the people of Atlanta is not going to occur overnight, and may not ever occur. And regardless of whether they build a new stadium or keep the current one, it probably won't affect that. And so from one outlook, if that doesn't matter, then why shouldn't Blank build a new stadium and get his revenue stream up.

Pudge, I love you, but your not only 'wrong' your 'damn wrong'.

I am 'familiar' with Raliegh, NC. The old blues lady pictured above was a part of MusicMaker.org, which is based in Hillsborough, close to there. I've been there: plenty. Ive performed there about 9-10 times...And while you would like to 'think' the weather and climate is the same, it's just not. And~especially in Dec and Jan.

Im not saying weather is a 'determining' factor. Im just saying it's one of them, and one that cannot be ingored. Yeah, sure: put an outdoor stadium in Raleigh, and people would flock there. Compared to the ATL ( #8 market with 8 mil+ counting suburbs) Im sorry, Raliegh is Mayberry RFD. The Capital area is small potatoes compared to here, just like we are small ones compared to Dalls, NYC or London.

(I've seen the womenfolk in emphysemaville, lets just say there are some nice ones, but we definitely got the Lions Share here.)

You also dont have traffic like we do. And things are cheaper there.

Combine more expenzive tickets, 1 1/2 hr drive to the stadium, increased parking, for a franchise that cant win a playoff game with the new regime, and that's already a stretch. Throw in freezing or sweltering weather on top of that only adds to it. Having a Dome prevents ONE of those things ( and were not even talking about the infulx of out of towners in the last 2 decades) and makes sense.

Opening it up because Goodell 'hinted' we might actually get a SB and because some old timers thinks we should all sit on blocks of ice and players should be wearing leather helmets is just silly. Blank want to do it on his dime, fine. On my dime? I;ve got something to say about it. Oh yeah, were going to pay for it by taxing 'tourists' with a hotel tax? How is that supposed to 'help'?!!

This stupid city never.never, NEVER learns from it's mistakes. It is maddening. We tore up the entire city for 4 years to 'welcome the World' here in 1996, and eveyone left laughing at us. We brought the SB here in 2000, and didnt fare much better. Mother Nature lived up the her name, as well as our transportation woes. Now were going to do the exact same thing. Insanity.

You cant help the city demographics, the competition in the NFL, but you can at least make the game day experience better, and what are they going to do? They are going to f*ck it all up again, at the taxpayers expense.

Suck it up. Your problems are no different than every other cities problems.

tell that to Sanford Florida

Amen And considering today's economy, the state cutting corners on Medicaid, schools, prisons, etc, no way will the taxpayers stand still for paying for a new stadium while the NFL makes bundles of money. Play in the Dome until the economy improves and jobs are plentiful. If not play in the parks like they used to do.

Not NO but Hell No as most taxpayers say and the politiciana ignore.

Look we're use to playing in nice conditions!! Why f*** that up now?

And you would continue to play in nice conditions, for the majority of the time. The 1, 2, or 3 games where the conditions aren't pristine, where a percentage of fans might get sprinkled on, or may have difficulty finding shade, or may experience a chill is something 90% of football fans have to deal with from time to time, but for some reason Falcon fans deserve better.

At this point, why shouldn't Arthur Blank move the team to Los Angeles? There he can get an equally fickle fan base, but at least get a new state of the art stadium out of the deal.