FalcFans Forums

First Tatupu, now Manuwai. TD did a lot of this over the past few months.

Neither of these were big signings. They were afterthoughts, at best.

That said, the off-season wasn't a huge waste, but it wasn't anything special either... We re-signed the people that we needed to re-sign, and we brought in Samuels. A reckoning is coming, next year. Next year's off-season will be a true test of TD. He should have a full draft board to work with. I would say that next year is TD's make or break year.

They weren't afterthoughts, they were signed to be starters. Now in both of their cases the Falcons had other potential options with Dent at MLB, and they wound up having Konz fall into their laps at RG, but don't get it twisted like neither player was signed with some expectations that they would be starting for the Falcons this year.

Make or break off-season next year? What do you think the last two off-seasons have been? When you're trying to win championships, you don't get a mulligan on off-seasons. Everyone counts.

I mean next off season will be pivotal he will have the most complete roster since he got here and he will have to replace some key cogs. What will we do at RB, what will we do at DT, what will we do at LB if Akeem Dent looks like he should have been a part of the 2011-12 Eagles LB unit, what will we do with Grimes, is Dunta still worth the price tag, and lets not forget the all important question what do we do at LT? He will have a full draft and little bit more salary cap flexibility. So of we don't completely flame out this year and the whole front office isn't shown the door, then I have to agree that will be a make or break year for TD.

Next year:
Matt Ryan, 1 year to go on his contract... We will probably need to make a move to get him locked up for the future next year.
Todd McClure (retiring?)
Tony Gonzalez (retiring?)
William Moore (free agent)
Sam Baker (free agent)
Will Svitek (free agent)
Garrett Reynolds (free agent)

Michael Turner (1 year left on his contract, but if his production drops off significantly this year, we'll need to replace him)

For most on this list, there's no one, "waiting in the wings." TD put us in this position with the move for Julio Jones. We'll see if he can address these issues next year.

I get that next year the stakes seem to be higher because the majority of the Falcons good older players either have their contracts expire or will so soon, and they will have to deal with the long-term prospects of Matt Ryan in all likelihood.

But I disagree that it's make or break. I would argue that the reason why it looks so critical is because of the bad decisions this team has made the past two off-seasons. This team has added little to no talent to this team the past two off-seasons, with obvious exceptions of Julio Jones, Ray Edwards, and Asante Samuel. And Samuel is a short-term solution, 2 or 3 years max and then he's probably gone. And unless Edwards really turns it on this year, he's probably in the same boat.

And because of those mistakes, you've now put yourself where the stakes are higher in 2013 because you haven't gone out and gotten an heir apparent for Turner, Gonzo, Abraham, Babineaux, etc. I don't think it is realistic to think that TD has something up his sleave that is going to somehow make up for this.

My point is that the Falcons make or break off-seasons have been the past two for those reasons.

Well, I obviously cited the past two season in my post, so I acknowledge the failure there. (and have been vocally against the move since it was made) That said, if I was in charge, next year would be TD's last chance to wow me.

what are y'all going to think about the trade for JJ if he gets injured again this year?

Will that make the deal look even worse? IMO it will.....

I try not to let injuries skew things for me, but if he's injured, then obviously he can't play, and thus cannot contribute. So while the injuries don't really directly factor into whether the trade was good or not, they do directly factor his impact or lack thereof, which does ultimately come back to whether the trade was good or not.

The point RobertAP I was trying to make is that I don't think there is anything that TD can do next year that can make up for essentially not doing much the past two off-seasons. Even if TD puts together the best off-season we've seen in Atlanta in over a decade, at the end of the day it's still only going to add up to being only 33% as good as it could have been. Essentially it is already broken.

TD's only hope is that the players he has added the past few off-seasons finally step up and turn into the good/great players that were expected of them. The Falcons can't afford for players like Peters, Dent, Mike Johnson, Hawley, Franks, Massaquoi, and Sidbury to only be as good as they are currently. Peters can't be a solid complementary DT, he has to be on par with Babineaux as one of the most disruptive interior DTs in the league. Dent can't just be the 7th or 8th best player on the defense, he has to be the 4th or 5th best. Johnson not only can't get cut this summer, but he needs to play well enough so that the Falcons thoughts of keeping Konz at RG don't come to fruition and he becomes a starter at least as good as Blalock. And if that doesn't happen, then Hawley needs to step up and become a center on par with McClure. Franks needs to be more than a good backup, he needs to be a quality starter a la Brandon Carr (another former 5th round pick). Massaquoi can't take 3 years like Sidbury to become a quality reserve, it probably needs to happen within 2 years, and like Sidbury being a 3-4 sack guy is still probably not good enough, he needs to be more of a 6 or 7-sack guy.

There can't be any drop-off in Weatherspoon's play. Konz not only needs to be a quality starter, but he can't just be the next Eric Wood (as I predict him to be), but the next Alex Mack. Moore needs to continue to get better and stay healthy and play at the level he was at in 2010 where he was very opportunistic and impactful.

Lamar Holmes can't be the next Donald Penn or Jermon Bushrod and take 4 seasons before you can trust him as the starting LT. That needs to happen within 2 years. He needs to be the next Jason Peters.

And of course Julio Jones can't be just a very good complementary receiver. He needs to be live up to his potential as the next Andre Johnson and become one of the more feared and consistently feared WR threats in the NFL.

Not to mention guys like Robinson have to be better. He has to be better, and this year needs to be one of the Top 5 nickel corners in the league. And Ray Edwards can't be just a capable complementary pass rusher, he needs to become the go-to guy that can help slant protections like Abraham has been for the past decade.

If most of that happens plus the Falcons have a great off-season in 2013, then maybe TD has put this team on the right track. But the cold, harsh reality is that among the dozen or so players I mentioned that have to step up this year or next year, we'll be lucky if half of them live up to those expectations. But if I was a betting man, I would say probably only 2 or 3 of those guys actually step up.

What are we doing???

The Falcons have to justify the use of all of their 1st and 2nd round picks, by making that player a starter. Someone might point out that William Moore did not start as a rookie, but the counter of course that in all likelihood Moore would have started had he not been injured in 2009. But he still remains the lone exception among the team's 5 1st and 2 2nds (not counting Konz) that has not started immediately.

The Falcons are a needs-based drafting team, and seem to be of a mindset that a player is only worth drafting in the 1st or 2nd round unless he's going to start right away. Starting in the 3rd round, they seem willing to develop guys, but in the vast majority of cases, every single of them if not expected to start right away, is expected to start by his 2nd season. While some like Mike Johnson have failed to do so, it's been fairly clear that the Falcons intention was that from the get-go.

Now that Manuwai is out of the way, I see absolutely no reason why Konz won't start this year over Reynolds at RG.

And in the case of Holmes, he'll almost certainly be starting next year, or at least the team will approach their off-season with the mindset that he'll be starting on opening day in 2013.

The big question for me about the future of the Falcons offensive line is Hawley, Johnson, Jackson, and to a lesser extent Reynolds. Which of those guys will play at a high enough level this summer and/or this season to ostensibly fill in for McClure next year, meaning Hawley steps in directly at C and Konz stays at RG, or one of those guards steps up and moves Konz to C.

The minute the Falcons drafted Konz and said he would play RG immediately IMO took Manuwai's chances of making the roster from 80% to 50%.

The cynical aspect of me (which is a very big part of me ) knows this is exactly what the Falcons do, and which I have been complaining about for much of this off-season. Despite a team that talks a lot of about bolstering competition, they have an odd habit of removing that competition, especailly when it comes to getting reps and PT for early round picks.

Sometimes it seems like rather than doing what is best for the team in terms of getting the best 53 guys on the field, sometimes I think they are more about trying to earn high grades from their drafts by getting the most amount of starts for their respective rookie classes, even if that means you're going to be weaker at a handful of positions on your roster...

Kinda what I was getting at, picking up old ineffective FA's, then flip flopping back to your needs based drafted players once they flop, then pretending like that was your plan all along. Our lack of commitment to a competitive 53 man roster is concerning on depth of competition, esp when we needs based draft.

Not one favorable post? Well The JJ pick was the greatest in Falcon history. If Matt Ryan improves as he should, we will be a different team running different plays....

Bashing the team is popular as I always point out; but never right!! Those that wanted more in 4 years were crazy, and all this BS. before a down is played is stupid!! Now I'll hear folks backing up saying we'll win 9-11? IMO you won't consistently win 9-or 11 and not start winning playoff games. This whole thread is trash, and our post season will show it!!

I completely disagree that drafting JJ was the best move the franchise ever made. Given the timing of it, it has been a pretty bad decision overall. We're watching our talent age and move away while picking our butts because we spent too much on a complementary piece. Our free agent and other acquisitions have been stretches for players who really do not fill a need for us, or who simply do not pan out.

If.... IF IF IF IF IF... If the Falcons start running an offense that makes Matt Ryan the centerpiece of the offense, then perhaps the JJ trade was halfway decent. Otherwise, it was a bad move. But even if they do make that move, there will still be some considerable holes on the team that could have been addressed with the picks that we gave up for Jones.

Robert you've already said your always a skeptic; and your doing what skeptics do!! Its ok, we disagree...... People make it sound like the people we would have chosen would have worked perfectly?? Folks can say JJ must do this or that for it to be a good trade; but that's not
true.

McClure, Tony G., Abe, make us sound older than we really are. I'm not trying to change minds; that would be impossible when the trade was labeled horrible by many here before a down was played.

I'll guarantee even if we went to the Super Bowl most would say JJ. didn't have much to do with it. This team will have Matt Ryan as the
centerpiece but he's just not going to play it like Brady or the other gunslinger Qbs. Ryan will still manage the game; but have more weapons
to use from screens to any backs out of the backfield.

As for the JJ trade I just wish we'd let it play out on the field vs the overkill about how bad it was!! We've got 2 new assistants but everyone assumes we're going to just see more of the same? Both Coordinator moves came at the perfect time for the organization!!

My biggest concern was Lofton was not good enough for us; but was good enough for the Saints? I mean if every player is a bad one
how do we keep getting to the playoffs? I think we'll win a playoff game this year and the team show vast improvement unless
Middle Linebacker haunts us? Getting A. Samuals makes us better on defense!!

See, you're skeptical of Matt Ryan. I'm not. From what I've seen of Ryan, I firmly believe that he could be one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL. I think that he's much more than just a game manager. I believe that you see him as such because of the system that Mularkey brings with him wherever he goes.

I don't think that Ryan needs Jones to be a great passer. He needs an offensive coordinator that will not treat him like a game manager. Ryan has the ability to read defenses and get the ball out quickly. He's a classic WCO QB. There really aren't a lot of those out there. But the Falcons have been the opposite of a WCO team. I sincerely hope that Koetter recognizes Ryan's skill set and actually designs an offense that will make the most of his skills. If we continue to be a power run offense, we'd be better off letting Ryan go, and looking for a QB that really is a game manager, but who has a good deep ball. But from what I'm hearing, we're moving away from the power run game.

It's funny Cyril that you call what myself and others say is BS, when you can spew it with the best of us. Jones was the greatest pick in Falcons history? I assume that was hyperbole, because there's no way to think that Jones has come close to earning that distinction over past Falcons, and even if you were prognosticating about his future, that would be even lofty given players like Mike Kenn, Matt Ryan, Steve Bartkowski, Deion Sanders, Claude Humphrey, MIchael Vick, Jeff Van NOte, and Tommy Nobis.

I've said a thousand times why the Jones trade was a bad decision by this organization, I'm not going to rehash it again here.

Not one favorable post? Do you get there's a reason for the negativity? Do you not understand why some people are frustrated with this team?

My guess is the answer to those questions is no. And I'll play shrink for just a minute here, and I think it's because you have been a Falcon fan for so long, and seen so many bad teams that going to the playoffs is just good enough. That the perception that this team is regressing (from 2010 to 2011, as well as in each of the 3 playoff losses getting progressively worse) is not a major concern for you because in your mind, "Hey, it could be a lot worse. Trust me I know because I've seen a lot worse."

And that's fine, especially for someone that has been a fan of the team as long as you have been. You say Thomas Dimitroff is the best GM in Falcons history. And you'd be correct. And you'd also probably say that Mike Smith is the best head coach in Falcons history (or at least very close to it), and again you'd be right. And in your eyes, that is good enough for you to be able to lay down your head on your pillow every night and sleep comfortably.

But for me, that isn't good enough. Being the best Prime Minister of Azerbaijian doesn't make you above reproach if you get my drift. And if TD, Smitty, & Co. aren't doing a good enough job, then I will call them out on it.

And the fact that they made only 3 veteran additions this off-season, and 2 of them were dumped before training camp really began is not something that I believe anybody with any sort of objectivity would deem "favorable."

One of the bigger criticisms of TD & Co. over the past year have been that their decision-making doesn't present itself to bear out any long-term thinking, and that they seem to be flying by the seat of the pants. And the reason why that is a knock against him is because of the perception that when TD was rightly earning his stripes as the team's greatest GM ever, his decisions did not appear to have such limited scope.

And it goes back to the Jones trade, because that move more than anything else shows that the process/plans that we all were seemingly in love with when TD first got here, is no longer in place.

No its when you have 12 unfavorable posts to "this off-season being wasted"; and not ONE positive post, then I guess the board thinks
this team is 100% going backwards. Now I consider 2 new Coordinators a big deal regardless how it came to happen. I consider getting
A. Samuels a big deal just because it gives us more flexibility.

As far as my being a long time Falcon Fan my feelings about the outcome of a season has more to do with my feelings its not Super Bowl
or Bust. Over the years I just realized at some point if you feel like that; then you will have 1 winner and 31 losers. I want to see the team
improve every year which is a realistic expectation!! I do want us to win not just one playoff game but perhaps 2.

Maybe after 38 years of going to games I'm just not as intense as I was at 25? Things happen; you lose loved ones; you see good people lose everything; and then perhaps football does just become a game for entertainment?? It doesn't mean I don't want to win but I do ask myself when was the last time the Cowboys, Pats, Baltimore, Washington, Chicago won a Super Bowl?? I realize you need more than a good team you need breaks; and need them in the playoffs......

As for Coach Smith & Thomas D. even after four years they've only passed the first test which is turn us into a playoff team. I believe the
new Coordinators can have a great influence with Matt Ryan; and on the defense; in the way we play defense. So no I don't think the offseason was a waste!! Yes my remarks about JJ was to wake up everybody; but I did say trade; but when we got Bart we traded an
all pro tackle and a # 1 and that will probably always be our best trade!!

I just don't think you can underestimate what 2 new Coordinators can do for this team; so I think the upcoming year could be very exciting;
if those two Coordinators do their jobs!!

I hear what you're saying Cyril -

Don't underestimate the 2 new coordinators. I think the offense will score points. Whether on the ground or through the air....it really doesn't matter. The defense in my mind is the key. I think Nolan is the right guy for the job. We have "some" talent in key places, and I think his scheme(s) will cover some of our weaknesses.

The offense will be fine. The defense needs more qb pressures and we need more turnovers. Aggressive tactics should help. It could be a very exciting year.

Is it just me or wasn't Chris Hope a free agent signing?

Yep. Can never have too much 'Hope'!

No, it wasn't a complete waste. But a big chunk of it was. Getting Samuel was a good move. Adding new coordinators was necessary. But that doesn't mean I can simply dismiss the fact that two thirds of our free agent additions are now gone.

The new coordinators should improve things on both sides of the ball. But I'm not sold on how much change/improvement will occur. I still think Koetter is going to be saddled with a below-average rushing attack and a head coach that insists on establishing the run early in games and being balanced. Which is going to be a difficult obstacle to overcome against the better teams we face.

As for Nolan, he should improve the defense. But I also don't like the fact that of his Top 6 players, 3 of them are over 30, and a 4th is 29. If he can't inspire guys like Edwards, Robinson, DeCoud, Peters, etc. to step up their play, then one again questions whether or not we can match up successfully with the better teams we face.

Cyril, it's not about Super Bowl or bust. It's more about 2nd Round of the PLayoffs or bust. This team should be much better than what they've shown over the course of their 3 playoff appearances. In 2008, their excuse was they were a rookie head coach with a rookie QB. In 2010, it was the excuse that they just simply didn't match up well with the Packers. Last year, what was their excuse? And to get the worst performance of this team in 4 years? This team has been favored in all 3 games, and lost all 3 and by increasing margins.

At the very least be competitive for 4 quarters, not just 3 (vs. Arizona), 2 (vs. Green Bay), and then 1 (vs. New York). That's where the negativity and frustration comes from. It has nothing to do with the Super Bowl. If this team is as good as you say it is, and as good as the powers that be keep preaching, then go out and prove it.

And throughout this off-season, they have insisted that this team isn't that far from where they want to be. So either this team has had the worst run of luck in the playoffs in the history of football, or the powers that be in Flowery Branch might be a bit out of touch. I hope for all of our sakes, it is the former.

But with the trade for Jones, their continued reliance on Turner, and the fact that two-thirds of their free agency moves couldn't even make it a week into training camp, I have the creeping feeling it might be the latter.

Just need to find a DB named "Change" and then create a duo half the country will like and half will not.

"Pudge Wrote"

I never said how good it was? Their are too many variables; is Matt Ryan all that we hope; Can our 3 corners mesh into defenders that
really defend.... I thought you liked our middle linebacker who got hurt? I mean in most seasons when you've been to the playoffs their are
a lot of things that can go wrong and a lot than can go right....... I just hate it when we pile negative post after post without pointing out that
guys like Ryan can step up a big step as can Julio. A. Samuels can be a big deal with our corners. I don't think everything is wrong!!

I mean I can make a case that no one will get to the Qb, that Baker and a vacant right guard will get our offense killed; but I don't believe that;
but its a possibility. Your concerns are valid but I think losing 3 playoff games has Mike Smith with a more open mind. I mean if this offense never averages 24 points a game maybe somebody is not as good as we think; and that could start with the Gm all the way to the Qb.

I just think if we just bash and bash that's what will be posting all day. I don't think the front office is anymore secure than you about the team.... Its just everything can come together and we have a very good team!! Their are only about 3 decent favorites to make the Super Bowl and its usually not them that win. I am excited about the new O-Coordinator because Ryan sells plays like the screen very well; and
really using backs out of the backfield is just something that might help Ryan have a big year.

It use to be in Atlanta that it was necessary to bring last years frustration over to this year but not really today; because we have multiple players on both sides of the ball that can have break out season's!!

We'll see Cyril. I just see a team that people tend to say is very close to being on the level with the Packers, Saints, or Steelers, but in reality I believe we're much closer to teams like the Cowboys or Bears. And it's not really about bringing negativity over from last year, it's bringing negativity over from the off-season. This team was vehement about the idea that they didn't really need to improve a whole lot. And basically with Tatupu and Manuwai gone, the off-season has basically boiled down to adding Peter Konz and Asante Samuel. And I'm not sure why I should buy that as "favorable." But now it's about, "Well we also got new coordinators." And I just don't buy that those are the huge changes people make them out to be. It's going to take Matt Ryan likely 3 years before he's truly comfortable in Koetter's offense. And it's going to take another off-season or two before they can add the necessary pieces to that offense, as well as replace players like Turner and Gonzalez, to really get to a point where they can emerge from the pack of teams that have good offenses, but aren't great on offense.

Yep, there are a lot of positive things to discuss about the Falcons. I think Koetter and Nolan are going to make improvements to their respective sides of the ball. I think Matt Ryan will play his best season as of yet, I think Julio Jones will be a better player. I think this team will probably win 10 or 11 games, make the playoffs, and if they win the division and get a home game, I think they'll probably win that playoff game.

But at the same time, I think whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, I also think there is a very dark cloud hanging over Flowery Branch. And if they don't win that playoff game this year, then things are going to get very, very ugly here in Atlanta very, very soon. The very long thread that we had about Matt Ryan and whether he has "it" is the precursor to that.

Your statement about sometimes things go right and somethings they can go wrong in the playoffs, IMO implies that there is a significant amount of control that you don't possess. And to a certain degree, I can agree with you. You can't really control injuries. We couldn't control Grimes, nor could the Steelers control Roethlisberger's health. But your statement to me implies the same sort of thing that I think the powers that be in Flowery Branch have been saying, is that our struggles in the playoffs over the past 4 years has at its core boiled down to a slate of bad luck. That's why you've heard the statement about losing to the eventual NFC Champions (and one that you yourself have put merit in Cyril), playing to the idea that you don't control your own destiny. And I vehemently disagree with that. I think the struggles of this team in January are ENTIRELY under their control.

And for me, I'm not going to sit here and be positive for the sake of being positive anymore when I feel like I'm constantly being fed a steaming plate of BS by this team, along with the creeping notion that this team may have peaked 2 years ago.

And if you want to be in the mentality of "It could be a lot worse" then by all means be that way. But I'm a fervent believer that it could also be a lot better as well.