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 Post subject: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:32 am 
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after yesterday, I have to say Dunta>Franks.

Give the man his props! He forced a fumble yesterday and was bringing the boom all day long.

I am having reservations about Franks and the return game. He is playing the position like a woman. Scared.

flame on!

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Dunta has quietly putting together a nice season. He struggled against the Chiefs but otherwise he's been pretty solid. I can only recall on one occasion where Smith beat him pretty good on a route but other than that, Dunta has been playing hard. Still waiting for him or Asante to get an interception. If you would have told me McClain would lead the team in interceptions after four games out of all cornerbacks, I would have called you insane.

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Despite all of the grief I give Dunta, he has been mostly good this year. He's definitely playing the run much better than he did last year, where he was largely atrocious. In coverage, while he still struggles against the double moves (Smith beat him badly on one, just like D. Thomas did vs. Denver), I would say he's done more good than bad, particularly since he's been moved out of the slot.

As for Franks, I don't really agree. While the last play didn't work out too well for the Falcons I'm not sure he really did anything wrong. He stood at the 10, the ball went over his head (wound up bouncing around the 7) and nearly was a touchback.

I'm not sure what else could be a problem. If you FC it at the 7, there's 100% chance you start the drive inside the 10. If you let it go, there's a substantial risk you get pinned even deeper inside the 5, but there's also a decent chance and perhaps better than average chance the ball goes into the endzone and it's a touchback, and you start the drive at 20.

In that instant, I can't really say that he did something wrong.

Not to mention that his 18-yard return in the 2nd quarter was key to setting up the scoring drive that gave us the lead going into halftime.

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
I'm not sure what else could be a problem. If you FC it at the 7, there's 100% chance you start the drive inside the 10. If you let it go, there's a substantial risk you get pinned even deeper inside the 5, but there's also a decent chance and perhaps better than average chance the ball goes into the endzone and it's a touchback, and you start the drive at 20..



disagree. It's not 100% determined you start the drive inside the 10, you FC it and one of thier gunners touches you, penalty time. The problem I am seing is this position takes a certain mindset to it: you cannot just be 'fast' you have to have good hands and be capable of making split second decisions. Twice I saw Franks look a little 'deer in the headlights'. I dont really want Quizz returning though, so I guess were stuck with Franks.

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:48 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
disagree. It's not 100% determined you start the drive inside the 10, you FC it and one of thier gunners touches you, penalty time.

Oh sorry, 99.7% you start the drive inside the 10. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:30 pm 
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Franks played it right. He also stopped an earlier punt from bouncing further down the field. Too easy to second guess. Maybe he gets a penalty. Maybe he fumbles and the Panthers carry it in for six.

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:46 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
Franks played it right. He also stopped an earlier punt from bouncing further down the field. Too easy to second guess. Maybe he gets a penalty. Maybe he fumbles and the Panthers carry it in for six.



you know what? your probably right. I havent rewatched the game yet, and it's a little different being in the stands vs watching in HDef...So in hindsight, if Franks looked 'lost' twice, but the rest of the time he does his job right, I guess Im being over critical. :?

Do you still go to the homers, BnB? I had a gig right after the game on Memorial and I thought to toss out an invite...

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:57 pm 
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No, I wish I had gone yesterday. I discontinued my STs. I'm in a band that is playing a decent bit now and it makes the necessary early Sunday departure kind of tough. More an issue of time than money. I bet that place went off like a bomb yesterday. to this day, one of the funnest moments I have ever had in that building was the Bears game in 08. Even Cyril missed the game, I think. End of an era!!!! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:13 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
No, I wish I had gone yesterday. I discontinued my STs. I'm in a band that is playing a decent bit now and it makes the necessary early Sunday departure kind of tough. More an issue of time than money. I bet that place went off like a bomb yesterday. to this day, one of the funnest moments I have ever had in that building was the Bears game in 08. Even Cyril missed the game, I think. End of an era!!!! :lol:


The Dome was a rockin!

IIRC, wasnt that the game that Matty injured his toe? I had those 'sideline' club level tickets for that one.

Care to 'splain what was so funny at that game??

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:17 pm 
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I was just laughing at the notion me and Cyril missing a game was the "end of an era" and I was referring to yesterday's game. the sad fact is that we could have gone to every single game they have had since 1966 and burn incense beneath a red and black Falcon shrine 365 days a year but once we quit buying tix or merch we're dead to the org! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:20 pm 
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If Pudge says Dunta is doing good, then he's doing good. I guess I like more finesse from the CB position, like pass deflections and picks.

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Dunta still seems to be the man covering or trying to cover on too many big receptions but he does bring the wood. Before he and Moore showed up I am trying to remember if there was anyone since Brian Jordan who I would have characterized that way in the defensive backfield. With rule changes it is harder to gain from the intimidation factor with WRs crossing the middle as a hit one centimeter in the wrong direction that messes up someone's braids can get you penalized but it is still a factor. I guess Eugene was a hitter though he was probably more valuable as a D QB. OTOH, Dunta is a threat to miss a tackle too. He is worth nothing near what we pay him but he is no slouch.

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:01 pm 
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My biggest beef with Dunta is that unlike Grimes and Asante, he can't win at the top of the route. Dunta is a guy that has to win at the bottom of the route, i.e. at or near the line of scrimmage by playing a lot of press coverage. When you watch guys like Grimes and Samuel, you'll see them be slightly out of position trying to defend a receiver, but their ball skills, technique, footwork, and burst are such that they can recover somewhat and make a play on the ball. That's that finesse aspect that CJN was talking about. The best corners in the league can do this as well as win at the bottom of the route if they can knock a guy off his route or jam him (see Revis, or a younger Woodson as prime examples). And the problem with this is that players like Dunta lose "it" a lot quicker than guys like Grimes and Asante, Woodson, Champ Bailey, etc. who can be somewhat effective into their mid-thirties. Dunta reminds me of a guy like Ken Lucas, who by the time they get to 31 or 32, have really no business starting in the NFL.

This is one of the reasons why I never really thought Dunta would be overly effective in the slot.

You see the double moves against Dunta, the posts and slants, and you don't see him making up the ground/space to break on the throw or at least make sure the WR is tackled immediately after making the catch. There are still too many times he's out of position considering the price we paid for him. He's five yards away from the WR on a crossing route, and thus it puts more pressure on guys like Moore and DeCoud to make up for that mistake, a position that you don't really want them to be in. It's really just a matter of trust. And I don't think you can ever fully trust Dunta, just like we couldn't with Chris Houston when he was here.

But at this point, if this is the best we're going to get out of him, then I can live with that. A nice solid 6 out of 10. Last year, there were some games where he was 6 or 7, but most games he was a 3 or 4. But if every week, we can trust Dunta to be a 5, 6, or 7, then I don't really have much room to complain. And outside Week 1, I think he's been that each of hte past 3 games.

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:14 pm 
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As much as I like Brent, I don't know that he can win at the line. He lacks the size and strength, build to re-direct WRs. BG just had that freakish athleticism and good closing speed and ball hawking instincts. if you really think about, the D has done even more or aremarkable job when you consider we lost our top CB. The Jets lose Revis and they act like that excuses them to lose every game. Great player, yeah, but a CB can really only one WR at a time...even if it is a team's best WR.

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:58 pm 
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I think in the traditional sense, by jamming guys and getting them off their routes, you're right Grimes can't win at the line.

But i think because of his really polished and refined technique, good awareness, etc. he does an excellent job putting himself in a position to win very early in the route. We've seen times over the past 2 years where Grimes gets beat. It happens to everyone (even Revis). But how many times have we watched a play or a replay and said Grimes got "burnt?" I'm sure there has to be a few examples, but it seems like a rare occasion. With Dunta OTOH, it's almost once a game (if not more) where there is a play where he just looks lost out there. When a corner gets burnt, when you break it down, it usually happens almost immediately off the line of scrimmage e.g. for how balanced he is with his backpedal and/or footwork. And thus when the WR goes into his break on whatever the route is that is really where separation is created and depending on that particular route, you can have a guy 5 yards away from the WR and you're in trouble.

I think if you go back and watch '09 tape of Grimes, you're going to see many more instances where he's not in position and gets burned. And it's one of the reasons why I thought Grimes was very much overrated following that season, and why I was one of the last to get on the BG Bandwagon. Now the beautiful thing about Grimes is that he improved from that year. And his improvement was drastic IMO.

And that was one of the chief reasons why I think the Falcons should have paid him this off-season. Because that sort of hard work needs to be rewarded. Mike Lombardi I think said it well and I'm paraphrasing, but you're not just paying the best players on your team, you're paying the best people on your team.

It's like being a parent or a dog owner, you don't reward/give affection to bad or unwanted behavior.

And I certainly could understand TD's skepticism (IMO skepticism is a very good trait to have as a GM) before the 2011 of giving out a contract, especially in light of the lockout. But once there was labor peace, and we saw very early in the 2011 season that there was no drop-off from Grimes, that should have been the time where a contract should have gotten done. We did this back in '08 with Jenkins and Babineaux, and I think that would have been the appropriate thing with Grimes at the time.

And now that we're a year removed from that and thus all of the subsequent events (his multiple injuries), I don't think those events really determine whether paying Grimes or not was a good/bad decision. As it's been stated in other realms, judging decision-making is less about the results and more about the process. Because the results can be skewed by random, uncontrollable events. The analogy I like to use is drunk driving.

Just because you make it home safely doesn't mean that getting by the wheel of a car tipsy is/was a good decision. There's always an inherent risk of dying/getting into an accident every time you get behind the wheel of a car, but by do so when you're intoxicated increases that risk dramatically.

In the case of Grimes, the inherent risk of injury IMO is not a significant deterrent. It would be different if he was a safety like William Moore who plays a position that has a higher inherent risk and is also a player that has a longer history of injury. Peria Jerry and John Abraham also fall into that latter category as well.

And here comes fun gus with the rebuttal in 5..4..3... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Dunta Robinson and Dominique Franks
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
And here comes fun gus with the rebuttal in 5..4..3... :wink:



Grimey sat, so TD stood pat. His foot's in a boot, and TD saved us some loot.

Once again, those in the know have us at here now at :4 and 0.

You may not like the contract Pudge, you will not approve, you will not budge.

But in hindsight, Thomas was right. Ol' Pudge was wrong, That's the end.Goodnight!

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