fun gus wrote:Pudge wrote:If you're judging solely from their compared postseason performances, there is NOTHING to suggest that Flacco in the '08 playoffs was better than Ryan in the '08 playoffs despite Baltimore winning 2 games.
..., is that in 9 playoff games, you have really only 2 strong performances from Flacco. His best performance came in a loss. And in NONE Of the 5 wins, would you really argue that he was the impetus behind them winning the game.
please stop digging Pudge!
Flacco's performance in the 08 playoffs wasn't better then Ryan's? Did you, Cute Stats.com or the author of this tripe forget not only did he 'score' late in the 4th, he scored the Td that sealed the win?
I guess I must have forgotten when Ryan did that against Arizona.
Sealed what win? I was not aware that the win over Miami (which you must be referring to because that's the only game in which Flacco was responsible for any points in 2008) needed sealing. Last I checked, when Flacco scored that pivotal TD, the Ravens were already up 20-9 with 4 minutes left in the game. I did not know that the Ravens were in danger at that point of losing the game.
And I'm the one that is digging...
Look I'm not saying Flacco is a P.o.S. I like Joe Flacco. Part of it may be our shared Pitt connection (I recall bumping into him one day when I was visiting a friend of mine because he lived in the apt. underneath him, and for the record he's just as goofy and awkward in person as he seems on TV), part of it may be because unlike most Falcon fans, I'm not biased against him just because of some perceived imaginary rivalry between him and Matt Ryan.
But if your argument is that Flacco > Ryan because of his postseason success, then I'm going to call BS and say you're not comparing Flacco and Ryan, you're comparing the Ravens and the Falcons. And the reason why the Ravens were successful in the postseason over the past 4 seasons has little to do with Flacco, and mostly to do with their defense. Does that mean he had nothing to do with it? Of course not, he had to have something to do with it since he touched the ball on every snap. In many of those games, he still was able to make some nice plays and nice throws. But the part of it that is him, is a very small factor in the greater scheme of things. If you were to insert a Hasselbeck, Palmer, Pennington-esque QB into his shoes for those games, and assume that Ray Rice, Willis McGahee, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, etc. all have the same performances, then I don't think it affects the results of the game by a bit.
He clearly was not the guy driving the bus, and when you actually look at the games it's very clear to see. And I think Mr. Barnwell's analysis with his junk stat, summarizes that perfectly without spending 7000 words summarizing all 73 games he's played.
If you want to say Matt Ryan stunk vs. the Giants, then I'm not going to really argue that point. I don't think you can say the same for his games vs. ARI and GB. I think Ryan had some very good moments and some bad moments in both games. But I think the worst you can say is that he was average to above average in both, and thus I don't think you can say he's the reason why we lost either game. I think everyone here agrees that the defense did not even show up vs. GB, and that was why we lost that game. And I certainly don't think anybody thinks the defense pulled their weight vs. Arizona, when Larry Fitzgerald and Q ran wild all over our secondary.
That's something Flacco never dealt with in Baltimore, and I think if you could magically transport one into the other's shoes, I don't think the results of either of their games change for better or for worse. And thus in my eyes, if you're going to use postseason success as the litmus test for who is the better QB, then I think it's actually a wash despite the fact that Flacco is 5-4 and Ryan is 0-3.
But that's just my crazy ass that instead of simply examining the results of the games and making assinine assumptions about them, I'm looking at the games themselves.
I'm also aware that there is nothing I could say or anybody else could say that is going to change your opinion on this issue. You've already made up your mind. And I know my aggressive argument style tends to make people more defensive of their previously conceived opinions as opposed to open to new ideas.
And again, if you believe Flacco is better than Ryan, then so be it. There are plenty of smart people that do. But again, if the primary reason you believe that is because of their postseason records, then IMO the gap that you perceive to exist between them as far as their postseason performances go, really doesn't exist.
You can certainly say that the Flacco's performance vs. NE trumps anything Ryan has done in the playoffs, and I would agree with you. But at the end of the day it's only 1 game, and thus if there is a gap between Ryan and Flacco, then it's 1 game's worth. And thus if you were to ask me, Ryan's regular season success and the fact that he's had to drive the bus more during that time either trumps that 1-game postseason advantage or makes it practically a wash.