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The only people who think our Julio trade was a bad one; are those who just won't admit being wrong......Besides taking double teams away from Roddy and making things easier for Tony G....

Its been said on this board that receivers NEVER make Qbs but I disagree. Matt Ryan would have improved either way; but now he really has 3 weapons he can go to; he's improved his long pass,
with Julio having a chance to go deep on any play its such a better situation now. Yes Ryan has definitely gotten much better but Julio gives him an option that he never had before.....

I understand some will make any excuse but weather we win a playoff
game or not; Julio has helped our offense; helped make Ryan a more confident Qb,It was just a great trade and it time to just outright admit it. It didn't follow some people's plan's but that why Thomas D. IS THE BEST GM in the league. As we saw tonight Mike Smith is also a pretty good coach.

Couldn't agree more.

Well, i was against the JJ draft scenario and drafting Ryan so, yeah, that's why I paint houses for a living. It is pretty exciting to be loaded with so many O weapons. Reminds me of the Taylor, Rice, Craig, etc. 49ers teams that seemed impossible to defend.

It must be nice to live in that black and white world you live in.

The people that don't admit that the trade has worked out and can see that had the trade not been done as it was, the Falcons could have still helped their team and offense by shoring up their O-line and still getting a good WR without ever making that trade. Thus it's silly to sit there and think that the only way the Falcons could have reached the point they are currently at is by making that trade.


So would Torrey Smith or Denarius Moore. Either of them are just as capable of taking the top off a defense as Julio Jones would be. Are they as good as Julio Jones, and able to do ALL the things he can? Nope, but the difference between him and them would have been definitely made up by the other picks had the Falcons used them on O-linemen like Carimi, DeCastro, or Riley Reiff, and thus been in a better position to run the ball and be a more balanced offense, thus potentially helping Ryan just as much.

Is Jones getting there? Sure, but here's not quite there yet. He's played well in 6 of the 8 games this year, with 5 of those 6 probably being described as impact performances (except OAK, DEN, & CAR).

But when you weigh what the Falcons gave up and how it has directly impacted this team (especially their O-line), then I think it is very premature and frankly, inaccurate to say that already it's clearly been a huge boon for the Falcons when it has not.

I've noticed that some of the people talking about this are the same people that say, "our O-Line sucks." Well, guess what. Our O-Line sucks because of this trade. We might get to the superbowl either way. If we do, it's because we have a QB who is tough as nails, and just as talented. We finally have a coach that realizes this and is making use of him.

Keep in mind this is also a buy now pay later trade. We have reaped the immediate rewards of Julio now but in the next 1 to 3 years we will have a few more holes that won't be as easy to fill. Julio will be a great player but it remains to be seen if we will be a great TEAM.

I'd have to say that we're looking like a pretty darn good TEAM right now. We have several impact players on both sides of the ball. We really only have one major problem area, and that's the offensive line. Other areas could stand to be improved as well, but it's obvious that the biggest issue right now is keeping Matt Ryan out of the hospital. I would prefer to not have to rely heavily on Matt's toughness for that.

Opinion can go back and forth. Consider the move for Vick with the Chargers...we fleeced them, they fleeced us and then, now, everybody shrugs--Ladamian's retired, Vick's in Philly struggling and Brees is in NO...struggling, oddly enough. If we win the SB this year and fall back next year becase of these alleged holes next year was the trade worth it? Who knows? It looks pretty good to me right now. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

If the Falcons win the Super Bowl this year, then the trade was definitely worth it. Because whether people want to admit it or not, the entire reason for making the trade was to push the Falcons over the hump from 2010 to be a Super Bowl team. So the ultimate measuring stick is whether they win it all.

Now I don't think it's fair to think that the trade is a bad trade if the Falcons don't win it all. But I think they have to make significant strides towards that.

Because the thing is that this isn't just your normal draft pick. Julio has had around a dozen good games. And if he was just a normal #1 or #2 pick, we could declare already that it was a good draft pick. But because we gave up an extra #1, #2, and two #4s, then you can't simply judge the trade/pick by the usual standards.

The Falcons paid an extremely high premium for Jones (the same that the Bears paid for Jay Cutler), so judging this trade by the usual standards isn't the right way to judge it. The value that Jones adds to the team has to be comparable to what 3 or 4 well-spent draft picks (since TD is the bestest GM ever! ).

For me, the way I see it if Jones was having as good a season as Roddy was having, I would say without a doubt then the trade was worth it. Roddy is playing at an elite level. Is Jones helping him do that? Absolutely. But Roddy was an elite receiver (or close to it) before Jones arrived. Now, Roddy is having probably his best season ever, and I think that is the difference Jones is making with him, in that you go from a guy that in previous years was a Top 5 receiver, to a guy now that is perhaps #1 or #2 in the league thru the first half of the season.

But I think the disconnect here is that many of the people that are gushing about this trade, think of it as all or nothing. That the alternative to making the Jones trade is the Falcons get absolutely nothing. And I think that is completely the wrong way of looking at it. IMO, the alternative is probably the passing game being 10-15% worse than it is currently with Jones (if say it's Torrey Smith or Denarius Moore instead of him), but the running game is probably 20-30% better (if say those 2 #1s were used on O-linemen).

IMO, unless you can clearly say Jones is like 20-30% better than the alternative WR, then I don't think you can say it was a trade well worth it. And contrary to popular belief, Torrey Smith and Julio Jones thus far in their NFL careers have been about even, and Moore isn't that far behind. If Julio was on Roddy's level, then he would clearly be that much better than the alternative. Now if Julio plays at the level he's played in 3 of the last 4 or so games for the next 8 or so games, then I think at the end of the year I might be willing to change my opinion on the thing, but we're not at the point now.

I'm sure TD stays up at night worrying about your appraisal of this move, Pudge.

Pudge wrote "

That's just Bs. We got Julio To push our offense into being dynamic,
Now we can work on being aggressive on defensive. If it brings us playoff wins or even if it doesn't, we are now a much more improved
football team. We're improved because of Julio, and Ryan working to be able to hit him, and having others defenses give us more space!!

If JJ has not been remarkably impactful then the seeming disappearance of HD is a mystery. We seem to be a three headed receiving team--Gonz, RW, JJ--and then the RBs. Every year we hear about how HD should explode but it doesn't happen. I think we have three freakishly good recievers and that coupled with Ryan and solid though not spectacular OL play is what has us clicking. Numbers do not tell the whole story. Roddy's maturation and probably realization that he cannot play forever are big factors. He spoke of it after SNF game, I think. Comparably speaking, JJ is world's ahead of where RW was at the same point in his career. Granted, JJ cost way more. When the time comes "another Roddy" can be acquired perhaps in the first round to compliment JJ when he is at a similar point in his career (past 30).

No, it's not BS. The whole reason to be more dynamic was to get this team to be a Super Bowl team. Whether you agree with it or not Cyril, this organization felt at the time in 2010 that they were an elite team on the cusp of winning a championship.

And then they were thoroughly dismantled by the Packers, and that loss has colored and shaped this team over the past few years.

As I've said to you dozens of times over the past 2 years, Cyril, if the goal was simply to be a more dynamic offense, then they didn't need to go out and spend what they did to get Jones to become more dynamic. Just look at the Ravens in that same draft, used a #2 pick on Torrey Smith and a #4 on Tandon Doss. That would have accomplished the goal of being more dynamic. That coupled with selections of players like Ed Dickson and Dennis Pitta at TE the year before plus Tommy Streeter this past year at WR, makes the Ravens a more dynamic offense. Not to mention the opening up they've done in terms of their play-calling, utilizing more no-huddle, etc.

One player does not make you more dynamic. If you really want to be dynamic, then you don't put all of your apples into one basket (no matter how great that basket is). It's about a SYSTEMIC approach to being dynamic which is represented with MULTIPLE players if that was all that it was about.

Instead what the Falcons did was put everything into the Jones basket, hoping that his presence on the roster would push what they felt was a very good team in 2010 over the top.

Their thinking was this, if we had a more dynamic option at No. 2 WR besides Michael Jenkins, and had better pass rush at DE, then we could've/would've beaten Green Bay in 2010 and would have accomplished the goals that they wanted to accomplish. And that's why their off-season in 2011 basically consisted of acquiring Julio Jones and Ray Edwards to fill those holes.

You're kidding yourself if you don't believe the Falcons are "all in" at this point under the hopes of getting to and winning a Super Bowl. That's why Dimitroff abandoned the "collecting picks" philosophy, and said as much in Michael Holley's book The War Room, because he felt that the Falcons had already reached/surpassed the point where that was necessary.

Pudge Wrote"

Well I shouldn't call it Bs. ITS JUST THAT YOUR SO WRONG...... Your trying to say that a team with a 4th year coach, and a 4th year Qb were trying to win a Super Bowl with one new player??

Ya see even you admit it; But that should say 1 player won't take you to a Super Bowl; not when you've never won a playoff game.... 1 player can make your offense or defense more dynamic which is what we were going for.

Besides you always bring up hypothetical things and I'm talking about having the balls to make the trade that actually brought us Julio. I read the "war room" last year and I didn't see Thomas D. say anything specific. You say in one breath you can't win a Super Bowl
with one person they you say that's what the Falcon's are trying to do??

No, their trying to win a playoff game, get the offense dynamic and work on the defense next. I only bring up the Julio trade because it gets amusing that if you don't think of something it was a bad move (: Or to say you'll hardly ever change your stance on a position, even
when its obvious to you.

This coaching staff has never won a playoff game and you think last year you think the Falcons thought getting Julio would get them to a Super Bowl. What they've done is move the time table up 2-3 years!!

IMO you can't win a Super Bowl without a consistent 5-7 pressures a game which our defense lacks. I'd love it, but a team can choose to run on us, or pass on us. We're ahead of your timetable, your just pissed you screamed foul, when in fact it was a great trade that you can't or won't acknowledge because you already spoke out against it!!

I don't think I understand this?? Our #1 this year is playing and so is Johnson. If the trade didn't throw us in the ditch this year or last Julio
should just better. Yea, Woulda; coulda; shoulda, but we took Julio and
he's showing why it was a great trade!!

We're back at full strength for our next draft, and Quizz is pretty good out of the backfield for the pass; and I was sorry Davis wasn't on the field Sunday instead we played Harry Douglas a legend in his own mind!!

I also think our new nickle back is really coming into his own!!

You know, first and second round players are typically a little better than players in the lower rounds. I realize that Thomas Dimitroff can do no wrong in some people's eyes, but no matter what, at the end of the day, we did, IN FACT, give up three potential starters in exchange for Julio. If we had not traded for Julio, we could have had 2 additional players on the field that could have upgraded other positions. Whether a 3rd or 4th round player is not starting is inconsequential to what we gave up to get Julio.

Pudge is absolutely correct in thinking that we drafted Julio to get us to the Superbowl. No way does a team give up a 10% turnover in their starting lineup for a guy that makes them a little bit better. If we get to the Superbowl this year, I'll say that the trade was worth it. If we do not, then the question will remain, could we have gotten there if we had upgraded 3 positions instead of one?

You misunderstand Cyril. I say 1 player can't get you to the Super Bowl, yet this team made that trade. This is why I criticize Dimitroff.

The question you seem unable or unwilling to ask yourself is why did this team give up 4 picks for 1 player?

Is the same answer as it was in Chicago. What we gave up for Julio is essentially what the Bears gave up for Jay Cutler. Why did Chicago make that trade? They were a 10-win team with Kyle Orton. It's simple, they gave up all that for Cutler because they thought he would be the difference between where they were then, and a Super Bowl team.

To give up that many premium assets (which is exactly what those picks were) for a SINGLE asset ONLY makes sense if you believe that lone asset outweighs those four.

In your mind you think the Falcons traded away all those assets for Julio to win a single playoff game? I cannot even wrap my head around that.

OK so if the team was one piece away from winning a playoff game, doesn't that mean then that the team was then SEVERAL pieces away from winning a Super Bowl? Therefore your entire argument is completely undermined because you're basically applauding TD for giving away the several pieces you think we needed.

And so I'm the one spewing BS and hating on the trade over some imagined beef I have with TD?

The only question you have to ask to determine whether this trade is worth it is this: Is Julio Jones alone more valuable than the four assets we gave up?

IMHO the answer to this question as it stands today is NO. And I also believe that the folks like you Cyril who wholeheartedly back this trade don't quite grasp the inherent value of the four assets we gave up, so in your eyes they correspond roughly to zero, therefore since Julio is giving us a lot more than zero value, then the trade is a "great" one.

While it makes for a boring post, I feel that I should chime in and say it is still too early to tell whether this was the right move. We gave up allot, yet Jones seems to be the real deal. This is really a thread for 2015 and beyond.

I don't think it is Davewaz. Again, you don't give up 4 players in 2011 for results in 2015. If we get to the big game this year, I think that it makes the trade worth it. If we need more pieces first, then the trade was not worth it. Next year, when Abe is a year older, Gonzo is gone, Turner is washed up, and McClure retires, we will be in rebuilding mode. We will need a RB, a TE, and more linemen. We will be more than a couple of pieces away. This is our year.

Dave I disagree. If the team intended for long-term growth then they would have kept the picks. The analogy is like investing, you don't put all of your money in a single stock, you'd prefer to spread it out over multiple stocks if you're seeking the best possible chance for long term growth. Short term growth however you'd be more willing to roll the dice on a single boom/bust stock.

That's exactly what the Jones trade was, which is why the onus behind it was to get this team over the hump into competing for a Lombardi. Everything this team has done since the 2010 season indicates this.

It's why TD constantly talked about "retaining the core" this offseason. He believes that from 2008 to 2010 he acquired the bulk of that core, thus why they abandoned long term building (we have traded a 1st or 2nd rounder away in each of the past three drafts) for short term growth with only a few moves to add players.

To me it's rather simple. We got (A) Julio Jones instead of (B) Gabe Carimi, David DeCastro, and Torrey Smith. And there's not a quality GM working today that would prefer Trade A over B if both were on the table.

After all why would an aspiring Super Bowl team want a guy like Torrey Smith who was widely perceived as a long term project akin to Roddy White that might take until his 3rd year to really produce, when a guy like Julio Jones is pro ready right now, ready to hit the ground running and make an immediate impact.

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think Julio was brought in just to make Matt Ryan better and/or win a playoff game. Its utter nonsense to think such a huge investment we made in Jones was to achieve such moderate goals.

And yes Cyril they were moderate goals. Matt Ryan had improved every year up until the Jones trade, there was no need to think you needed such a drastic move to keep the arrow pointing up. As well as a team coming off its third winning season and second playoff appearance should not have believed that the gap between where they were and where they wanted to be was large enough that they had to trade away half a draft class. To reach those goals, all they needed was time. But instead, their actual goals were much more short term and immediate.

Pudge wrote:

Getting Julio to make Ryan better may was not the original thinking but its sure worked that way!!

Hell Nobody thought we were close enough to Super Bowl, so its rediculas to say we brought Julio in for that!! Look your wanting this all to be a fairy tail for you; so it happens just like you expect- But It never does!!

I don't think Jones has just brought us marginal expectations. Without him we might be like the Cowboys and win a playoff game about once in every seven season....

The reason we disagree so much is you Take the whole off season and you tell us how he should have done it better.Then when we're 8-0 it doesn't count because we don't have a playoff game yet!!

Julio is going to be carrying this team a long time with Ryan, sorry you don't think we got our money's worth?? But then again- You Never do!!

I believe this question of giving up so many draft picks to have one player boils down to TD's drafting ability. Lets look at his record at the draft for the last 4 drafts (since we don't know how this last draft will turn out.ow many core impact players has TD drafted in his tenure. I define impact players as pro bowl or potential pro bowl players.

Offense : Ryan
Defense: Weatherspoon

Julio Jones potential is certainly capable of being a pro bowl player.I understand Pudge what your saying but the chances of drafting 2 Sean Weatherspoon types with those 4 picks seems to be a lower percentage than drafting 2-3 William Moore types.We have had 4 drafts to get a sample of how TD drafts. It's nice to have decent players but impact players make all the difference especially when it comes to the big games.

No Cyril the reason why we disagree is because you have no imagination.

I say that because you can't fathom that if Denarius Moore or Torrey Smith were playing second fiddle to Roddy White that we could be 8-0. You can't imagine a scenario where in the past two drafts this team added players like Carimi (who I personally thought was the best OL prospect in the 2011 draft, and also it's been claimed that the team was targeting at pick No. 27), David DeCastro (who many think is the best OG prospect in 5+ years drawing comparisons to Steve Hutchinson in some circles, and would have been IMO the perfect pick for us at No. 23 this past April), and still would have been able to get Konz in Round 2 to be the heir apparent to the Mud Duck. And let's say my low opinion of Lamar Holmes is off the mark, and he could have still been our 3rd round pick.

Now you have a front that is potentially LT Carimi, LG Blalock, C Konz, RG DeCastro, RT Clabo/Holmes. And if those players live up to their potential you have a couple of Pro Bowlers, and have just solidifiedd your line for potentially the next 5, 7, maybe even 10 years. It is now a foundation of your team, potentially rivaling the 49ers or Giants of yesteryear as having a team that can dominate in the trenches.

Now you have the potential to have a top running game, even with an old decrepit Michael Turner. You also are giving Matt Ryan much longer to throw the ball than he has with his current line. And trust me, if you could give Ryan another second or two of protection, I can guarantee that lesser WRs than Julio Jones can get just as open.

And what you don't see in the 8-0 record that clouds all is that the Falcons have a bad O-line. And ultimately I think the poor quality of the OL is going to keep them from winning a Super Bowl. And the reason the OL is so poor is directly caused by decisions by TD as well as the Jones trade. Because without that trade IMO we would have potentially upgraded at least 2 starting spots, essentially saying this line would be 40% better without that trade.

And my stance is that I need to see significantly more from Julio Jones than we've seen from these first 24 games with him on the roster before I'm ready to declare it to be a worthwhile trade. Frankly the only way I see us making a deep run come January is if guys like Julio play out of their minds ala Fitzgerald in 2008 or Nicks last year. So for me it's much too early to tell whether this trade is worth it. We won't really know until Dec/Jan.

I hate when Pudge makes a negative response but nails it on the money with legitimate reasoning and options. You can't really dispute how good that offensive line would be. Nevertheless, let's see how Konz and Holmes develop. If those two develop well, what would you think about that Pudge?

If they develop it would be a nice cherry on top, but it still wouldn't change the fact that the Falcons OL stunk in 2011 and thus far in 2012 stinks just as much.

Had we drafted Carimi last year and re-signed Dahl, I'm very confident our line would have been significantly better. And with DeCastro added to the mix this year, plus potentially Konz and Holmes, then I'm very confident our group would be better this year.

Cyril says nobody thought this team was Super Bowl ready, but he's conflating his own opinion for that of the powers that be. We may not have inside access to what goes on in Flowery Branch, but simply analyzing their decisions/moves will give you a fairly accurate perception of what their actual opinions/process is.

If you draft a defensive back in the first round that means the powers that be have a low opinion of their pass defense. If you're giving away 1st and 2nd round picks via trades, then it means you're willing to mortgage your future for short term gains.

It's asinine to think this team is thinking long term with guys like Gonzo, Turner, Asante, and Abe still on this team. It's ludicrous to think a team that is thinking long-term is giving up as many draft picks as we've given up the past 3 drafts and invested as much as we have in those 4 players that we did over the past 9 months.