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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:15 am 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the beginning of the season I thought I heard from the Falcons camp that Samuel and Grimes were looking to be the main cover guys and Robinson was going to be the slot/nickel CB. It made a lot of sense because of the cover abilities of Grimes and Samuel being really strong as Pudge pointed out and Dunta being more of a run support specialist. Perhaps if we can resign Grimes to a reasonable deal or trade for Revis as suggested on another thread, we would get a chance to see what that lineup really was supposed to be like. I think it could really work. We also could use a LB/S that is better in coverage too.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:15 am 
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I'm thinking that McClain is going to be a pretty decent #2 corner himself. Camp will be interesting if we have Samuel, Robinson, Grimes, and McClain next year. That said, I doubt that Grimes is coming back, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if Dunta is a cap casualty. I'm thinking next year will be Samuel and McClain as our starters, with a player to be named later lining up in the Nickel. I have no clue who that player to be named later is going to be, but I think that signing a DE or OLB is going to be top priority when free agency hits. As such, we're going to save our cap room for that.

- Gonzo - Turner - Dunta - Grimes = lots of cap to play with.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:59 am 
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RobertAP wrote:
I'm thinking next year will be Samuel and McClain as our starters

Starting McClain next year would be foolish of the Falcons. McClain is a RFA after this upcoming year, essentially meaning that assuming he doesn't stink, he's going to be a Falcon through 2014. Samuel is signed through 2014 as well. The Falcons would be smart to groom McClain to try and be a replacement for Samuel come 2015.

The Falcons have a decision to make at RCB. (1) Keep Dunta and guarantee $3M out of $8M for a clearly declining player. (2) Re-sign Grimes, but not be 100% convinced that he plays a full 16 game slate. (3) Use a 1st or 2nd round pick on the position to try and find a Kyle Wilson/Devin McCourty/Casey Hayward that can help solidify the spot (4) Sign a veteran player like Cary Williams, Sean Smith, or Tracy Porter, or Nnamdi, Gamble, Eric Wright should they be cut or (5) Trade for a player like Revis

McClain should not be a factor in any of those decisions, IMO. The Falcons would then be making the same mistake that they did in the past with Chevis Jackson, Chris Houston, Chris Owens, and Dominique Franks, and assuming a young guy is going to step up. How has that worked out for them in the past?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:40 pm 
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Difference between McClain and the other guys... McClain showed it for most of the season, and did it consistently. The other guys showed flashes from time to time, but they were hit and miss. McClain has steadily been a good cover guy.

That said, the Falcons could even make a move on Revis, like you suggested.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:26 pm 
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It’s too early to give McClain a starting role especially with the pass rush being weak. Samuel will easily be back next year, he was pretty solid this year. After that, it’s either Dunta or Grimes. Whoever comes back between those two will start and that’s up to the front office. McClain should stay at nickel back for another year and continue to grow.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Personally I feel that its harder to find a good nickel than it is to find a guy on to put on the outside. Mcclain has proven to be a competent nickel so why move him from that position in a hurry. I personally believe that they should draft a guy in the 3-5 round range with potential and sign a stop gap player similar to what the Bengals did with Terrance Newman while Dre Kirkpatrick developed and tried to heal.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:48 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
Difference between McClain and the other guys... McClain showed it for most of the season, and did it consistently. The other guys showed flashes from time to time, but they were hit and miss. McClain has steadily been a good cover guy.

That said, the Falcons could even make a move on Revis, like you suggested.

People forget that Chevis Jackson showed "it" in 2008, thus why the Falcons were ready to promote him into the starting lineup in 2009. I think McClain had a good season, but when he went up against #1 receivers like Fitzgerald and Crabtree, he was often overmatched. No need to rush it. If he balls out again this year, then we think about promoting him in 2014. Given the issues the Falcosn have had at the nickel spot and cornerback spot overall during the Smitty Era, they should practice caution with McClain.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:36 am 
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Certainly would not use the franchise tag on Grimes again. Personally, I feel there are too many question marks surrounding Grimes to offer him any major contract this year. If we sign him at all, should only be for one year so he can be properly evaluated.

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Last edited by Go Falcons on Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:46 am 
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.no. he is not worth it.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:11 am 
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I want to make clear that I don't think that McClain and Samuel is what SHOULD happen... I'm predicting that's what will happen. I don't see the front office working something out with Grimes, and I don't see us keeping Robinson around. Perhaps the Falcons bring in Revis... Perhaps they make another move. We shall see what happens.

Currently, I don't know what the, "ideal," situation is. I don't know how Grimes is recovering, I don't know what the front office really thinks about McClain, and I have no idea if there is any interest at all in Revis. Currently, corner is a strength for us. The idea presented here is that we need to get younger. Problem is, there's about 5 other more important things at hand. That said, there is obviously some uncertainty regarding our secondary for 2013.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:02 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
Much as I loved the little man, if what I heard today was 'correct' we will not be in Grimetime next year.

Mind you, it's all media speculation, but take this for what it is 'worth'..Today on 'Archer and Bell' on 790, they discussed Grimes return. Archer basically said 'well, you can tell when guys are serious about rehabbing. How much they return to Flowery Branch...I have to say, the word around the camp is Grimes has not put in his 'due diligence'. He has missed time with the recently fired strength and conditioning coach , and the medical team. In fact, he's been downright invisible. If I had to trust my gut, I would say they have already moved on, both of them'...

Now, to be FAIR: the guy works for the Organization. But I have been a listener for awhile, and you kinda get a sense when someone ( especially a color guy) is towing the company line, or saying something that is true that could possibly get him in trouble. That is what I took away from this segement.

Methinks the reports of the sittin' and quittin' might be a little more 'true' then 'false' 8-)



Is he sitting at home or is he rehabbing somewhere else? Did they say he was sitting at home or just imply it?

Just because he doesn't go to Falcon's HQ for rehab doesn't mean that he can't get great treament somewhere else. There are a lot of great specialists that don't work in the NFL. I would actually prefer that he took the time to examine his options and find the place that can help him the best. Drew Brees was considered done in San Diego until he went to his own guy and rehabbed with him. The rest is history.

This has always bothered me that the NFL has such an ego that they have the best S and C coaches and facilities. If Atlanta was so confident in their S and C, then why was he just let go. Maybe Grimes was just ahead of the curve.


As for keeping him, I say Yes. I would give him a contract that pays him if he returns to form with escalators and bonuses, but protects the Falcons if he doesn't. I would say 6 mill if he can get to Pro Bowl form and 3 to 4 if he is just above average.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:13 pm 
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Spanky Ham wrote:

Just because he doesn't go to Falcon's HQ for rehab doesn't mean that he can't get great treament somewhere else. There are a lot of great specialists that don't work in the NFL. I would actually prefer that he took the time to examine his options and find the place that can help him the best. Drew Brees was considered done in San Diego until he went to his own guy and rehabbed with him. The rest is history. .



Well, to be fair, this was a report by Dave Archer, who is under the 'umbrella', but the implication he was making is that there was bad blood between Grimes camp and Flowery Branch. I think what he was trying to say was if Grimes was really interested he would have used the Falcons rehab facilities and personell, or tied them in with whoever is rehabbing him out of the organization. I mean think about it: the Falcons are paying the man 10 million dollars, and Archer is saying Grimes hasn't been around or made much of an effort to use what is at his disposal...

Now maybe this is a trial balloon, or a shot across the bow, but I dont see it that way. I could be wrong.

Also, Brees in SD vs Grimes ia a bit of a stretch to me. Brees was asking for 50 million dollars, and was seeking the best rotator cuff guy in the business.

If there is bad blood already, give him 4 mil or show him the door and ride and die with McClain.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:34 pm 
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Grimes has a camp now? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:45 pm 
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Wease wrote:
Grimes has a camp now? :roll:



This guy must be a bachelor. :wink:

'If Momma ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy' :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Grimes' camp = Miko. I think that's a HUGE mistake for Brent. Having your wife as your agent is a fool's folly.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:18 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
Currently, corner is a strength for us.

No, it is not. There is no position group on the Falcons defense that is a strength. We have an average defense, and it's average across the board. Safety might be the lone exception.

Robinson is in the same exact position that Turner was in last year. He should be cut this off-season, and the Falcons should move on if they do a good job evaluating their team. He's a declining player that if this team opts to keep him will likely be in the same position they are with Turner, where they are essentially cutting him a year later than they should.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:10 am 
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Fun Gus,
Again why does he have to use the Falcon's facilities? Grimes has to look out for Grimes' interests and if his best interests is a better place to rehab then good for him. Should he check in? Yes, I think he should be required to periodically come in. That is much different than being required to rehab exclusively under the direction of the Falcon's S and C.

I think Brees situation is similar. When Brees went out on his own, he not only healed completely, but found a much better workout regimen for himself. I am friends with a Steelers fan. After this season, I told him if I was an OL on that team I would stay as far away from their S and C as I could. Seriously, every Steeler lineman has been injured sometimes more than once over the last two years.

How about Sam Baker? I know they were saying he was more injured than was led to believe for two years. If your S and C can't find a good solution in two years, then maybe it is time to look elsewhere. I thought the Falcon's should have given him a one way flight to Stuart McGill up in Canada. Bring him back when Stuart says he is ready.

At the end of the day, a player should find the best solution for himself. If that is the team's facilities and personnel, then great. If not, then hopefully the player can find a solution that fits him better.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:04 am 
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Spanky Ham wrote:
Fun Gus,
Again why does he have to use the Falcon's facilities? .



I can give you ten million reasons why. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:15 pm 
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We've seen this happen in other NFL cities. A player decides to work out on his own in the off-season, which sours the brass to him and he's ultimately cut, traded, or allowed to leave because of some perception that he's not a "team player." It was stupid then, and it's stupid now. My recollection is that this was a big deal with Edgerrin James constantly spending his off-seasons in Miami, rather than Indy, and did it make an iota of difference? No.

I believe it's silly to question Brent Grimes' character when you consider all that you know about Grimes, which so many have done over the past year because of misinterpreted reports and radio speculation. But folks want to do it, and thus there's no reasoning with them.

Here's the bottom line: Should the Falcons tag Grimes? No. It's too expensive.

Should the Falcons re-sign Grimes? Yes. If you can get him for less than $3 million this year, which is the amount of money that Robinson will be guaranteed if he's on the roster this year (he'll actually count $8 million against the cap), then it's worthwhile.

Should his presence at Flowery Branch factor into this? No. If his rehab is progressing as it should, then where that is occurring makes no difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
We've seen this happen in other NFL cities. A player decides to work out on his own in the off-season, which sours the brass to him and he's ultimately cut, traded, or allowed to leave because of some perception that he's not a "team player." It was stupid then, and it's stupid now..



I'll respond to that with this anecdotal remark:

two days before Edwards was outright cut, Dave Archer also commented that he refused to meet with all the other players in a huddle ( a prayer,peptalk, something of the sort ) at the facility. He said Smitty looked pissed off. He said that not only were he and Van Note in the locker room, so was Mr Blank. Said Smith looked very very PISSED OFF.

Two days later he is 'cut'. The organization did not say 'we cut him because he was being a pain in the ass as well as not performing. he was not buying into the 'team' concept, and was being a little b*tch in the locker room. so we kicked his a$$ out the door'.

Here's what they said" It was a decision that we made that we thought is going to make our football team better today and in the future and that’s what you’ve got to do when you make decisions,” Smith said.


In Smith’s five seasons Edwards would seem to represent a rare, if not lone, example of a player who has started that many games and played that much – he played 20 snaps in Sunday’s 31-27 loss to New Orleans – and was cut in midseason.


Yet Smith denied that the organization was making an example out of Edwards, who totaled 16.5 sacks in the 2009 and 2010 seasons while playing for Minnesota.


“I don’t want to get into sending messages and whatnot,” Smith said. “We evaluate every day. We evaluate after games from top to bottom. We talk about it all the time and it starts with me.”

Okay? See what I am getting at here? IF Grimes is not at the facility, and is working out somewhere else, and everything is roses and unicorn farts, fine. But we don't have 'direct' information. The Falcons are not going to 'tell us' what is going on behind closed doors. The best we can do is what we get from the well placed sources out there. Guys like Archer and Mortenson and the like. That's not to say they dont ever get anything 'wrong' ( Mike Vick wont be indicted :wink: ) but you take what you can get. I generally give Archer, Van Note a little more leeway because like Leo Mazzone they were in the organization and can usually get away with 'sharing' some of this stuff. And I dont think Archer would be caught dead giving out 'false' info for the front office to use as leverage.

So it is what it is. This guy aint John Kincaide or the Stews. He implied there is something amiss between Grimes and the Falcons. I dont want to believe it, but there might be something more to sitting out that Giants game then you or I are aware of :whistle:

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:25 pm 
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... r-attitude

Ray Edwards was cut for public insubordination to the coaching staff, coupled with being highly unproductive on the football field. Had Edwards been a "team player" and been unproductive on the field, then he probably sticks around at least through the end of 2012. If he had been insubordinate but been really productive on the field, then he probably stays but the team decides to fine for him for "conduct detrimental to the team." But you can't be both and expect to stick around for long.

What Grimes is doing is not conduct detrimental to the team. So trying to draw strands between Grimes and Edwards is ridiculous. Not to mention there is no question about Grimes production on the field.

And I'm also not doubting the reliability as Archer as a source. But if the Falcons choose a month from now to let Brent Grimes walk it should be for 2 and only 2 reasons: 1) they doubt his ability to be healthy this year and 2) they think his price tag is higher than what he is worth.

Whether or not he is using the Falcons facilities at Flowery Branch have nothing to do with it.

fun gus wrote:
I dont want to believe it, but there might be something more to sitting out that Giants game then you or I are aware of

He didn't sit out, he was not cleared to play.

Is there a growing rift between Grimes and the Falcons? Maybe. I don't know. At this point it's speculation, and we won't know the definitive answer until the 2nd week of March.

We won't really know the extent of Grimes' Achilles injury until he actually suits up on the field this summer, whether that is in a Falcon uniform or another. We can only guess based on what other players have recovered. Demaryius Thomas had surgery on his Achilles in February 2010, and didn't practice until September, and then in his NFL debut had a 100-catch performance, and then proceeded to have a non-descript rookie season in Denver. Mikel Leshoure had his Achilles torn at the outset of camp in 2011, missed that year, and then was 100% healthy at the outset of the following summer, but had groin, ankle, and a 4-game suspension limit him this past year.

Look, again if the Falcons deem Grimes prognosis going forward isn't worth keeping him, then fine. They pay team doctors a lot of money to make those types of decisions, and it certainly would be silly of me to try and second-guess those people. But if the reason they don't re-sign him is because he isn't spending as much time at Flowery Branch as they would prefer and deem that as some sort of F U to the team, then so be it. Because frankly, who would blame Grimes for that? Look, you might say, well the Falcons are paying him $10.3 million and he should be happy about that. OK, seriously? We've all been football fans for a long time, how many players have ever been content with the franchise tag? Especially, when you consider that if Grimes had been able to hit the open market last year or the Falcons had paid him market value, he could have gotten $20-25 million in guaranteed money.

I don't ever get mad at any player for withholding services.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:54 pm 
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The fact that Fun Gus is comparing Ray Edwards situation to Brent Grimes situation is really sad.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:13 am 
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Ditto on what Pudge said. You can't compare Edwards and Grimes. If they let him go because they think he can't return to form, then so be it. If it is because he wants to much money that the Falcons aren't willing to pay, then so be it. If they are upset that he isn't there or some other petty reason, then I would have a problem with that.

I am not in Atlanta. Does Grimes have a negative public profile? Has he been in trouble that I don't know about? Is he married to a publicity seeking Real Whoreswife? I am really curious if there are any skeletons, because I have never heard of any.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:25 am 
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Miko Grimes, his Wife/agent, seems to present a negative image.

That said, I don't think that Brent has done anything in his tenure which could be construed as negative.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Grimes worth $10.7 million?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:57 am 
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Emmitt wrote:
The fact that Fun Gus is comparing Ray Edwards situation to Brent Grimes situation is really sad.


you know what? You are absolutely right. That is pretty f*cking sorry :wink:

I gues my point wasn't to 'compare' them, per se: just how the organization deals with them, and what we eventually 'find out'. My example was Smith 'saying he is not going to send a message' when blatantly doing just that. Yeah, right cutting Edwards was just a great midseason move. I dont have a problem with that, though.

Just dont piss on my leg and then tell me it's a 'protected wetland'.

Look, lets just hope this is all speculation. Maybe there are forces at work beyond our purview. :whistle:

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