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 Post subject: NFR: Talk about your all-time crybabies
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:32 pm 
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It would be one thing if Rodger Saffold was actually a good player, like say Branden Albert. When it was first speculated that the Chiefs were going OT with the No. 1 pick, and that Albert would have to move position, I could understand Albert being upset. He's a Top 15 LT, if not Top 10 on a good day. But if you were asking me whether I'd rather have Saffold or Sam Baker, I might choose Saffold, but it's by no means a slam dunk. Which basically means he's maybe just a slightly above average starter.

It'll be awfully convenient in the coming days/weeks that we hear Saffold was abroad during this time. And is fine with playing right tackle.


http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football ... 8o.twitter

Fisher: No contact with Saffold since Long signing

2 hours ago • By Jim Thomas jthomas@post-dispatch.com 314-340-81978

Rams coach Jeff Fisher remains confident that Rodger Saffold’s dissatisfaction with a move to right tackle will be resolved.

“Things are gonna work out,” Fisher said. “We’re confident they’ll get resolved.”

At the same time, Fisher pointed out that no one in the organization has been able to reach Saffold since the team’s new left tackle, Jake Long, agreed to terms on his four-year, $34 million contract nearly two weeks ago.

“We’ve been trying to reach Rodger, and he’s not returning calls right now,” Fisher said. “But we’ll get things settled, and Rodger’s a big part of our future and a big part of our plans on offense.”

One of Saffold’s agents, Alan Herman, said Saffold would be unhappy with a switch to right tackle when it became known that Long was making a free-agent visit to St. Louis on March 13.

But Herman stopped short of requesting a trade if Long was signed, and Saffold has been quiet on the subject. Similarly, Herman has not commented since then.

When asked Thursday if Saffold had requested a trade, Fisher replied, “No. It’s just been quiet. And we’re trying to reach Rodger just like we’re trying to reach all of our other players. We stay in touch with our players. Maybe he’s traveling and is on his way back.”

A second-round draft pick in 2010, Saffold’s contract expires after the 2013 season.

At the moment, the Rams’ starting offensive line features Long at left tackle, Scott Wells at center, Harvey Dahl at right guard, and Saffold at right tackle. The only position up for grabs is left guard, where Shelley Smith and Rokevious Watkins currently are the leading candidates to start.

Otherwise it’s a veteran line that includes two past Pro Bowlers in Long and Wells.

Interestingly, general manager Les Snead said the addition of Long wouldn’t necessarily prevent the Rams from taking an offensive tackle high in the draft.

“If you liked (a certain) tackle before we signed Jake, and that’s one of the better players on the board, you probably ask yourself, ‘Hey, can he play guard?’ ” Snead said. “And then eventually you move (him) to tackle like a lot of guys have done.”

One potential draft pick that comes to mind in such a role: Alabama’s D.J. Fluker.

The signing of Long, Snead continued, “may lessen the — I call it urgency, or desperation — but it wouldn’t preclude you from taking a tackle.”

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 Post subject: Re: NFR: Talk about your all-time crybabies
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:34 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
It would be one thing if Rodger Saffold was actually a good player, like say Branden Albert..”



so, it's okay to be a crybaby malcontent player, but only if your 'good'?

:snooty:

can't have it both ways, Pudge. Either there is no 'loyalty' in the NFL, players should look out for themselves FIRST and the TEAM second, or they need to buy into the 'team concept' . Regardless of 'talent'.

Jason Snelling is an adequate RB, nothing 'special'. But when we experienced the Giant Fiasco(tm), he got in there and played the final three quarters with a broken jaw. Ever had one? I have:twice. It sucks. It hurts like a sonafabitch. Jason Snelling sucked it up and did his job.

But Grimes, due to his 'talent', is different somehow? His bellyaching is 'okay', but Saffold is not?

shouldn't you be defending Saffold? I mean: there is no loyalty, except for the fans. How dare those coaches and owners think they can move him to a position he is unfamiliar with? I mean this next season is his final contract year. They move this guy to RG, he doesn't play well in his contract year, that costs him $$ right? The nerve of those guys! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: NFR: Talk about your all-time crybabies
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:37 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:
It would be one thing if Rodger Saffold was actually a good player, like say Branden Albert..”



so, it's okay to be a crybaby malcontent player, but only if your 'good'?

:snooty:

can't have it both ways, Pudge. Either there is no 'loyalty' in the NFL, players should look out for themselves FIRST and the TEAM second, or they need to buy into the 'team concept' . Regardless of 'talent'.

Jason Snelling is an adequate RB, nothing 'special'. But when we experienced the Giant Fiasco(tm), he got in there and played the final three quarters with a broken jaw. Ever had one? I have:twice. It sucks. It hurts like a sonafabitch. Jason Snelling sucked it up and did his job.

But Grimes, due to his 'talent', is different somehow? His bellyaching is 'okay', but Saffold is not?

shouldn't you be defending Saffold? I mean: there is no loyalty, except for the fans. How dare those coaches and owners think they can move him to a position he is unfamiliar with? I mean this next season is his final contract year. They move this guy to RG, he doesn't play well in his contract year, that costs him $$ right? The nerve of those guys! :lol:

You should have listened the first time when your wife told you to shut up. :P

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 Post subject: Re: NFR: Talk about your all-time crybabies
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:13 am 
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backnblack wrote:
[:

You should have listened the first time when your wife told you to shut up. :P[/quote]


it's funny you mention that. the first time I got my jaw broken I was an underage kid in a bar in Cincinasty, and was trying my damndest to pick up some college chick while sporting my brand new parachute pants. My older brother was the bouncer, so I thought I could act with impunity. I was making headway with this girl, and when I went to the bathroom, a big burly dude follow me in and confronts me. Tells me he has been trying to woo this girl for weeks, and if 'I was smart' the thing to do would be leave the bar.

Well, of course, a drunken 19 year old Fun Gus was having none of this. NOt with my massive Big Bro outside the front door!! So I go back out and resume my shenanigans, and it's clear I have a 'shot' at this chick. I can see this guy and his friennd FUMING at the bar. And Im dancing all over this chick ( this was the 80's) and it's clear if Im not outright getting laid, I am at least getting digits.

I go to the bathroom again, and this guy and a friend follow me in. HIs buddy blocks the door and this dude picks me up by the throat, puts me against the wall, and says "you can leave this bar two ways. You can walk out, or you can be carried out. I will knock your a$$ out and mop this nasty bathroom floor with your long blonde hair"

I tell the guy " you do that and you will be sorry". He says 'Oh yeah?"

So I say ' it's gonna be really hard to get that spot behind the toilet...."


BOOM!

That's the last thing I remembered and when I woke up I was missing two front teeth, and they were strapping me into a board and carrying me out to the hospital. I was already pretty skinny, and was set to go to CCM on a Vocal Music scholarship. I had my jaw wired shut and did not eat solid foods for something like 8 weeks. It sucked.

something 'happened' to this guy, too. I think my older brother found out who this guy was, and some of his frat brothers might have pounded him around for a bit.Im still unlcear on that..It was long time ago.. But I was playing Fat Matt's sometime before the Olympics, and sure enought this same guy comes in and sits at a table 5 feet away, and didn't recognize me at all! I sure remembered him though. He taught me a very,very valuble lesson. When a guy pins you to the wall and says he is gonna knock you out, you take that man very seriously.

BTW, you know me and my wife and not 'tall folks', but my kid is off the charts tall. And my older bro is 6'4'' and easily 260. His wife is 6' and his his daughter is about that, too. But his boy is already 6'7''! He is a senior in high school and a hardcore basketball player.. He is bugging me non stop to get him final four tix. And I can see it coming..He is a 'big fish' in Maderia, Ohio, and he thinks he is going to Duke or UK on a scholarship. And I dont have the heart to tell him since he is not from a Eastern European country, the only sholarship he is getting will be to a community college or a non div 1 school. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: NFR: Talk about your all-time crybabies
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:27 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:
It would be one thing if Rodger Saffold was actually a good player, like say Branden Albert..”



so, it's okay to be a crybaby malcontent player, but only if your 'good'?

:snooty:

can't have it both ways, Pudge. Either there is no 'loyalty' in the NFL, players should look out for themselves FIRST and the TEAM second, or they need to buy into the 'team concept' . Regardless of 'talent'.

Jason Snelling is an adequate RB, nothing 'special'. But when we experienced the Giant Fiasco(tm), he got in there and played the final three quarters with a broken jaw. Ever had one? I have:twice. It sucks. It hurts like a sonafabitch. Jason Snelling sucked it up and did his job.

But Grimes, due to his 'talent', is different somehow? His bellyaching is 'okay', but Saffold is not?

shouldn't you be defending Saffold? I mean: there is no loyalty, except for the fans. How dare those coaches and owners think they can move him to a position he is unfamiliar with? I mean this next season is his final contract year. They move this guy to RG, he doesn't play well in his contract year, that costs him $$ right? The nerve of those guys! :lol:

Baker, Bushrod, and Beatty got roughly $7 million/yr. Cherilus got about the same. He's a right tackle. Loadholt got about $6M/yr. Another right tackle. If Saffold had a good year at right tackle and got a comparable deal, how much money is he losing? Not much.

The point is that Saffold isn't good enough to be indignant. If Mike Smith told Jason Smelling that he's moving him to fullback, and Snelling refused because it would hurt his money,don't you think that would be interesting? Its not as if Snelling staying at RB is going to earn him a $30 million contract. He'd get $5 million given his abilities as a RB and moving to FB wouldn't significantly affect that. Snelling isn't a good enough RB to get indignant.

Its one thing if you ask a great player to do something drastically different. But when you ask an average player to change positions that might have a minor impact on his money, and he demands a trade, then he's a crybaby. But don't forget fun gus I also considered Haynesworth a crybaby when he bitched and complained about playing nose in a 3-4.

The fact that you don't see a difference between Grimes contract situation and Saffold saddens me my friend.

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 Post subject: Re: NFR: Talk about your all-time crybabies
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:10 pm 
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I was waiting for you to tell me the same guy broke your jaw the second time. Crazy story, FG. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: NFR: Talk about your all-time crybabies
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:36 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:
It would be one thing if Rodger Saffold was actually a good player, like say Branden Albert..”



so, it's okay to be a crybaby malcontent player, but only if your 'good'?

:snooty:

can't have it both ways, Pudge. Either there is no 'loyalty' in the NFL, players should look out for themselves FIRST and the TEAM second, or they need to buy into the 'team concept' . Regardless of 'talent'.

Jason Snelling is an adequate RB, nothing 'special'. But when we experienced the Giant Fiasco(tm), he got in there and played the final three quarters with a broken jaw. Ever had one? I have:twice. It sucks. It hurts like a sonafabitch. Jason Snelling sucked it up and did his job.

But Grimes, due to his 'talent', is different somehow? His bellyaching is 'okay', but Saffold is not?

shouldn't you be defending Saffold? I mean: there is no loyalty, except for the fans. How dare those coaches and owners think they can move him to a position he is unfamiliar with? I mean this next season is his final contract year. They move this guy to RG, he doesn't play well in his contract year, that costs him $$ right? The nerve of those guys! :lol:

Baker, Bushrod, and Beatty got roughly $7 million/yr. Cherilus got about the same. He's a right tackle. Loadholt got about $6M/yr. Another right tackle. If Saffold had a good year at right tackle and got a comparable deal, how much money is he losing? Not much.

The point is that Saffold isn't good enough to be indignant. If Mike Smith told Jason Smelling that he's moving him to fullback, and Snelling refused because it would hurt his money,don't you think that would be interesting? Its not as if Snelling staying at RB is going to earn him a $30 million contract. He'd get $5 million given his abilities as a RB and moving to FB wouldn't significantly affect that. Snelling isn't a good enough RB to get indignant.

Its one thing if you ask a great player to do something drastically different. But when you ask an average player to change positions that might have a minor impact on his money, and he demands a trade, then he's a crybaby. But don't forget fun gus I also considered Haynesworth a crybaby when he bitched and complained about playing nose in a 3-4.

The fact that you don't see a difference between Grimes contract situation and Saffold saddens me my friend.



fear not! Im only halfway in on this. I was just trying to push yer buttons 8-)

Seriously, I get your point that the guy is being a crybaby. I would agree with that, but doesn't the fact that they are switching him to a position he's never played in his final contract year matter? I mean the guy was a 2nd round pick in 2010, played by your own definition a slightly above average starter, and now in his final year they are asking him to move. Is he being a crybaby? Yeah. But it's not like were talking about Jared Gaither, either. The guy might have a valid reason to be pissy, no matter his talent level :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: NFR: Talk about your all-time crybabies
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:21 pm 
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Its one thing to be pissy or upset, but its another thing to stay out of reach and have his agent request a trade just because you're not playing left tackle. Look if you want to demand that you play left tackle, play out your contract in St. Louis and then demand LT money on the open market next year.

Look I don't fault a player for withholding services in the midst of a contract dispute (see Drew Brees) or because he is trying to get a team to redo his deal (see MJD), but I do fault a player that does so because he doesn't like a scheme or change of position. Again if this was Joe Thomas or Ryan Clady or Branden Albert i.e. someone that plays his current position at a high level, I might give them a pass because of the "if it ain't broke..." mentality. But players play, coaches coach.

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 Post subject: Re: NFR: Talk about your all-time crybabies
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Its one thing to be pissy or upset, but its another thing to stay out of reach and have his agent request a trade just because you're not playing left tackle. Look if you want to demand that you play left tackle, play out your contract in St. Louis and then demand LT money on the open market next year.

Look I don't fault a player for withholding services in the midst of a contract dispute (see Drew Brees) or because he is trying to get a team to redo his deal (see MJD), but I do fault a player that does so because he doesn't like a scheme or change of position. Again if this was Joe Thomas or Ryan Clady or Branden Albert i.e. someone that plays his current position at a high level, I might give them a pass because of the "if it ain't broke..." mentality. But players play, coaches coach.


wait.. so this guy, who has never played RG, who was signed as a LT and has done his job, cant be pissy about this? What if he gets injured playing a position he never played, and then he's out that LT $$? Just because the guy isn't as 'talented', his bitch is less? This is the problem I have with it: either be a team player, or be a 'me' player, but don't make distinctions between the two. If your gonna defend some, defend all. For the record, of course the guy is being a little bitch. Snelling would do just what Coach Smith asked, like Biermann. They are team guys. Ray Edwards? Not so much. Pudge, why do you think the guys is pissed off? Because of his ego alone? I just dont see that. He hasn't demanded a trade, he's just steaming because he spent years playing at a position (a crucile one) at that and now he realizes the new guy they signed just took his gig.


Look at it this way: your Sam Baker circa 2012. You've had 'issues', but you aren't a total bust. It's the final year of your contract, and the Falcons want you to switch to RG, because they went with the better solution. But your not setup for that, furthermore when you DID play the position, you sucked even worse.


Or think of the guys development... Every snap of every meaningful game since college this guy on the left side, with predominantly right handed QB's. NOw they want him in a contract year to learn boxing since he cant do MMA anymore...


Think of it this way ...This is a bad analogy all around, but Im tired, it's Easter so forgive me.

Your Steve Perry in a lil band called Journey. At some point ( this is a terrible hypothetical ) the band and management come to you and say 'You know what? You started out pretty damn good! The last year, though, your voice is showing aging. Tell ya what: we just met this Filipino dude who can do all the things you used to be able to do! Were gonna slide him in there, that is what is best for Journey. But look, were not going to dump you outright....You still have talents that can help this band. Why dont you take this tambourine, we will throw 4-5 oldie songs you can still pull off pretty well, and when 'Dont Stop Berieving' is doing your gig, go hang with the backup singers and percussion. Oh, and BTW, were going to make a public statement that even though we just signed this Asian guy, were still on the lookout for another guy, too. Were scouring Youtube and Kareoke nights. But: it is all in the interests of keeping Journey on top! Who's crying now?

Now I know this is waaaayy off, but you dont think Perry would sh*t a calf? Hell, I would, and I sing for beer. Really, really cheap beer.

The guy is being a baby, but maybe someone poked the baby, too. The difference in Pudgeland ( and you maybe right) is that because he isn't 'special' he shouldn't be allowed 'special' difference, and I dont cotton to that. This guy is being a lil douche, but it's not like he chose to sit out a playoff game, let his wife run rampant on social media, bitched about getting tagged, racked up 10 million, didn't report to the faclities enough, etc etc etc..He went away and told everybody to GFT. Hell by that standard I am the biggest baby of them all. :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: NFR: Talk about your all-time crybabies
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:45 am 
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OK again, Grimes situation is like night and day compared to this. You keep trying to draw strands with that, and I'm tired of beating that dead horse. You've made up your mind about how that Grimes situation using false information, and multiple times I've tried to enlighten you, and yet you refuse to see truth, and therefore I'm not going to be drawn into that again.

I'll stick with Saffold...

Firstly, he's not moving to right guard, he's moving to right tackle. That's a significant distinction.

If you're going to use your Steve Perry/Journey analogy, it's not asking him to play the tambourines, it's asking him to sing duets with the new Filipino dude, except the Filipino dude is going to be featured a lot more.

No, Saffold and his agent haven't formally requested a trade. But it was reported on March 13, that Saffold would want out if the team signed Long:

https://twitter.com/BobGlauber/status/3 ... 7208084480

But where do you think Bob Glauber got a silly idea such as that? All signs suggest his agent said that. And then quickly backtracked...

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football ... uk.twitter

Then on March 18, the Rams sign Long. And we go 10-11 days without contact between Saffold and the team.

Around the same time as when trade rumors broke, it was reported that the Rams would be working out D.J. Fluker, widely considered the top RT in this year's class, and potential target at pick No. 16 for the Rams.

http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2013/3/14/ ... er-saffold

Look, I've said that I don't fault players for putting their own interests ahead of the teams interests. But I should have made a distinction when it comes to money in a contract dispute. For example if a player is injured and on the verge of free agency, and doesn't want to risk further injury, then I can understand if he doesn't rush back from injury. I also understand if a player wants a new contract or pay raise, and then decides to hold out like Drew Brees, Roddy White, Maurice Jones-Drew, or Darrelle Revis. But maybe it's because those types of holdouts typically are top level players. I can't think of many examples where a mid-level player held out. Saffold, the 19th best left tackle in the game (according to Pro Football Focus), if he wants to hold out for a new deal, I guess I could accept that, but it would be a head scratcher. Because in the previous cases, they are when a player has typically out-performed his previous contract. Saffold is due $1.5 million this year, so it's harder for me to say that he is getting paid at a level that doesn't match his performance on the field.

But where I won't side with a player is if he's basically trying to coach the team. And basically saying, I don't want to play for you any longer because I feel that you are not putting me in the best position to succeed (i.e. earn a new max deal or live up to the already max deal I've signed). That is what the Albert Haynesworth situation was. Haynesworth signed his $100 million contract, then Redskins DC Greg Blatche didn't use him like Titans DC Jim Schwartz had and he pitched a fit. And then when Shanahan was hired and decided to install a 3-4 defense, then Haynesworth basically refused to play for the Redskins any longer.

In this case, the Rams signed a 4-time Pro Bowl LT to replace Saffold, and now he's going to be playing a new position, which he feels is not in his best interest, and thus doesn't seem to want to play for the Rams anymore.

That's essentially in both cases a player saying, "I don't like how I'm being used, and I refuse to play for you any longer. Trade me." Look it wouldn't be the first time that a player has been upset about his role or usage, and again I don't have a problem if a player publicly gripes. But he's a player, he's supposed to play where the coaches tell him. Coaches coach, players play. In this case, Saffold is essentially trying to coach by indicating to the Rams brass where he should play.

This is Ray Edwards scenario. If a coach asks you to do something, you do it. You can mumble under your breath, and gripe to the media afterwards, but you're still supposed to do it. This is why Ray Edwards got cut from the Falcons. Mike Smith asked him to do something, he refused 3 times to do it, in front of the owner, and he got axed.

A distinction must be made between holdouts and insubordination. Holdouts are a negotiating tactic. Insubordination is when you refuse to follow the directives of a superior.

And Grimes was not insubordinate because he wasn't cleared to play.

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 Post subject: Re: NFR: Talk about your all-time crybabies
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:31 am 
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Pudge wrote:
This is Ray Edwards scenario. If a coach asks you to do something, you do it. You can mumble under your breath, and gripe to the media afterwards, but you're still supposed to do it. This is why Ray Edwards got cut from the Falcons. Mike Smith asked him to do something, he refused 3 times to do it, in front of the owner, and he got axed.


Link/explain?

[EDIT] NVM:

Fox Sports insider and NFL Network contributor Jay Glazer reported Sunday the Falcons parted ways with Edwards on Monday because he refused to join a team gathering following the Week 10 loss to the New Orleans Saints.

As Falcons coach Mike Smith called on his players to gather in the locker room, Edwards sat alone along the wall and ignored the request. He was called upon three separate times and refused to join until his teammates ordered him over.

Falcons owner Arthur Blank and general manager Thomas Dimitroff were in the room, according to Glazer, and the scene contributed to the decision to waive Edwards. The Falcons might have put up with this behavior in days of old, but that's not what they're about in 2012.


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