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 Post subject: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:50 pm 
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The Rams have a good defense. But thankfully we're playing at home, so the chances that we can create some turnovers increases.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Try to keep Quinn and Long limited to only two sacks, make sure Cook doesn't go wild, and the Falcons will win handily.

I'm very confident going into this game. Rams didn't look great against Arizona at all. The secondary looks very fragile as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:05 pm 
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Yes we need a good "bounce back " game and get things working!!

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:00 pm 
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The offensive line rebounds and keeps Ryan's backside clean, leaving him to pick apart the Rams defense. S-Jax punches in two from short range on his old team. It won't be as close as the score indicates. Falcons 27-23.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:57 pm 
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We struggle to block in the passing game again, but we will have a RB with ubber motivation who will have a big game and the Defense will be solid, we squeak it out 23-20.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:23 am 
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Emmitt wrote:
Try to keep Quinn and Long limited to only two sacks, make sure Cook doesn't go wild, and the Falcons will win handily.

I'm very confident going into this game. Rams didn't look great against Arizona at all. The secondary looks very fragile as well.


That is a lot easier said than done. Even though we did a pretty good job against Jimmy Graham, the Rams have made it a point to get Cook the ball. IMO if there is a game you should try to work Bartu into the nickel this would be one because if you are going to have Dent defending seams it will be a long Sunday. The Long vs Holmes match up scares me because of the mixture of Holmes' conditioning issues and the fact that Long is relentless.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:55 pm 
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ip-injury/

Even if he plays, no excuses Holmes!! One of the beasts are damaged.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:53 pm 
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I'm more worried about Dent in coverage, especially against their backs and Jared Cook. I'm hoping that we don't do that again...

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:32 am 
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Not feeling real confident about this one. Hopefully Bradford has a horrible game, I'm still not sold on him yet. I think our defense will give up some big plays. Its games like this that Ryan needs to earn that 100 million dollar contract. Hopefully Julio's injury isn't too bad, we need him. I still think 0-2 is a distinct possibility and if that happens, winter is coming.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Capologist wrote:
I'm more worried about Dent in coverage, especially against their backs and Jared Cook. I'm hoping that we don't do that again...

Dent is already as good if not better in coverage at this point that Lofton was in his final season in Atlanta.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:59 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Capologist wrote:
I'm more worried about Dent in coverage, especially against their backs and Jared Cook. I'm hoping that we don't do that again...

Dent is already as good if not better in coverage at this point that Lofton was in his final season in Atlanta.


Not from what we saw last week. Pudge he was gawd awful. Not that Lofton is all that much of a high water mark...

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:16 pm 
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Yeah, I'm sorry Cappy but I'm going to have to disagree with you. There was only 4 plays where I saw Dent out of position in coverage. And they weren't really him being out of position. He got beat early in the game on a checkdown to Sproles. But that was because Sproles is lightning fast, and even a much more athletic and faster LB like Spoon has trouble with him, so you cannot blame Dent on that one.

Then he got beat on the TD to Colston. Dent was actually in good position. Brees threw a perfect pass that even if Dent had turned and located the ball, he wouldn't have been able to make that play. Maybe Brian Urlacher circa 2004 could've made that play, but again, I wouldn't be upset with Dent for not being as good as a future HOF MLB in his prime.

I've attached some screen shots from Game Rewind's All 22

Image
On the first 1, it shows right as Brees is about to release the ball. He has made his decision to hit Colston. As you can see, Dent is deeper than Colston.

Image
On the second, it shows where the ball is (highlighted in yellow) at its highest trajectory. Again, Dent is even with Colston.

Image
On the 3rd one, it shows just as Colston is about to lay out for the ball (again highlighted in yellow). But the ball is anywhere between 4-6 feet above Dent, that even if he had turned to locate the ball (and note he's a MLB not a safety/cornerback so I don't get too upset over his lack of ball skills).

Image
That becomes even more clear in the 4th screenshot again which is taken a split second before the 3rd one where the ball (highlighted in yellow) is clearly in a place where it is impossible for Dent to make that play unless he's Manute Bol. That's an example of a perfect read and throw by Brees.

Later at the beginning of the 4th quarter, there is an instance where the Saints run a rollout to Colston, and Dent bites too hard and then slips when he tries to recover. Which gives Brees an easy completion to Colston.

Image

The 1st screenshot shows Dent slipping trying to recover. BUt also note the position of William Moore and Jed Collins.

Image

But you could also be equally mad at Moore on that play, because he came upfield from a position where he could've prevented the completion to Colston to try and cover the low read (Collins), thus giving Brees the open window to throw to Colston. Had he stayed at home on that play, it would have forced Brees to go to Collins, where Moore could have still be in position to make the quick stop after the catch and prevent the 1st down.

Image
3rd screenshot just shows the location of defenders at point Colston makes grab.

Then there was a pass over the middle to Colston, that Brees threw over the top of him. BUt DeCoud was really out of position.

Image
1st shot shows the location of Dent, DeCoud, and Colston just as Brees has begun his windup to throw.

Image
Now I've highlighted the ball (in yellow) to show where Dent is at the point when he's actually in position to make the play. Someone explain to me who DeCoud is covering on this play? Because it looks to be grass, which is a no-no.

Image
This is an even better shot (from the endzone) of how close Dent is to breaking up this throw. I can't fault him for that. This is really just Brees being Brees again and putting the ball in the perfect place, not Dent being out of position.

Unless there are other instances where you complain about DEnt's coverage, I'm not sure where else?

And you're talking about 4 plays where he was beat by arguably the most dangerous pass-catching RB in the NFL, and 3 other instances where he was beat by a Top 15 WR in the NFL, and 2 of those instances were really the result of great throws by the QB not because he was out of position.

I'm not trying to argue that Dent is some coverage maven. But the idea that Dent is terrible or poor in coverage, at least in this Saints game IMO is not accurate.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:08 pm 
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I'll see what I can put together on screen caps (I'm very new at that so any pointers you have are much appreciated). I think this would make a great discussion in and of itself as well as something to look for.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:12 pm 
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Here's one play I discussed elsewhere for example:

Image

Here Dent goes up to the line, turns left to go into coverage where he runs into Spoon who "redirects" him towards the middle (his assigned area) meanwhile Biermann is coming from his left to blitz up the middle. His blitz is delayed due to this confusion, Weatherspoon is delayed because of the collision. So what happens when all that gets clear?

Image

Square is the reception and YAC. Circle is Dent, 25+ yards up field and in no position to help anyone as both deep receivers are well past him and to the extreme sidelines. After Spoon redirected him, he headed to the middle of the field and just ran straight back. I really don't think he knew where he was supposed to be especially since this was a 3rd and 4 play.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:23 pm 
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Here's the first play I saw a technical flaw in:

Image

Here it shows that Dent is assigned to cover Sproles in man. Tough assignment but since Sproles is faster then Dent has to anticipate correctly to limit any play to very short yardage or to be able to defend.

Image

Unfortunately, Dent starts to go inside, while Sproles breaks to the outside.

Image

This results in not only Sproles making a catch but also instead of just a 3 yard catch and me saying "Good play" he gets 10 YAC and a first down.

Dent must step up the anticipation part of coverage to make up for his lack of speed. What I find interesting is that Dent has great instincts and anticipation when it comes to run defense but doesn't vs. the pass. This was the scouting report on him out of college which was "two down linebacker".

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:56 pm 
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I wish I had the free time you guys do, with that said, nice work on the analysis, both of you make solid arguments with proof.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:11 pm 
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DaveWaz wrote:
I wish I had the free time you guys do, with that said, nice work on the analysis, both of you make solid arguments with proof.


LOL Dave, I have to make time and even then I really don't have the time. I need to get a paying gig reviewing this stuff, I'd diagram every single play. There were enough of them... :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:50 pm 
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Capologist wrote:
Here's the first play I saw a technical flaw in:

Image

Here it shows that Dent is assigned to cover Sproles in man. Tough assignment but since Sproles is faster then Dent has to anticipate correctly to limit any play to very short yardage or to be able to defend.

Image

Unfortunately, Dent starts to go inside, while Sproles breaks to the outside.

Image

This results in not only Sproles making a catch but also instead of just a 3 yard catch and me saying "Good play" he gets 10 YAC and a first down.

Dent must step up the anticipation part of coverage to make up for his lack of speed. What I find interesting is that Dent has great instincts and anticipation when it comes to run defense but doesn't vs. the pass. This was the scouting report on him out of college which was "two down linebacker".

That was the first play I was referring to in my last post. But again, I don't really blame Dent there.

The only possible way that he could stick with Sproles is by completing anticipating the route, which in that scenario he cannot occur because Sproles can go in either direction as it's essentially an option route. The fact that Dent (wrongly) anticipated Sproles move to the inside is not that bad a decision really when you consider the sideline is the 12th defender. If you're going to bite wrong, then it's much better to bite inside rather than outside because it gives Sproles less of a field to work with.

I think we both agree that coverage is not Dent's forte and probably will never be. But given who he was asked to cover (Sproles, Colston) for most of the game, and his relative inexperience, I think when you grade on that curve, he did a fine job for the most part on Sunday.

And after 4 years of watching Stephen "What Are These Things that You Call Hips" Nicholas and Curtis "I Have No Clue What to Do when I'm More than 1 yard Away from the Line of Scrimmage" Lofton, Dent is a breath of fresh air by comparison.

In an ideal world, the Falcons will get a true everydown MLB next year and move Dent to SAM, or draft a nickel specialist like a young Wes Woodyard to replace him. But Dent is off to a much better start than Lofton was at the same point in his career, and is a significant improvement over Nicholas thus far.

Now I say that of course, and Jared Cook will catch 5 passes for 85 yards this week on Dent. :so:

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:14 am 
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Pudge wrote:
Capologist wrote:
Here's the first play I saw a technical flaw in:

Image

Here it shows that Dent is assigned to cover Sproles in man. Tough assignment but since Sproles is faster then Dent has to anticipate correctly to limit any play to very short yardage or to be able to defend.

Image

Unfortunately, Dent starts to go inside, while Sproles breaks to the outside.

Image

This results in not only Sproles making a catch but also instead of just a 3 yard catch and me saying "Good play" he gets 10 YAC and a first down.

Dent must step up the anticipation part of coverage to make up for his lack of speed. What I find interesting is that Dent has great instincts and anticipation when it comes to run defense but doesn't vs. the pass. This was the scouting report on him out of college which was "two down linebacker".

That was the first play I was referring to in my last post. But again, I don't really blame Dent there.

The only possible way that he could stick with Sproles is by completing anticipating the route, which in that scenario he cannot occur because Sproles can go in either direction as it's essentially an option route. The fact that Dent (wrongly) anticipated Sproles move to the inside is not that bad a decision really when you consider the sideline is the 12th defender. If you're going to bite wrong, then it's much better to bite inside rather than outside because it gives Sproles less of a field to work with.

I think we both agree that coverage is not Dent's forte and probably will never be. But given who he was asked to cover (Sproles, Colston) for most of the game, and his relative inexperience, I think when you grade on that curve, he did a fine job for the most part on Sunday.

And after 4 years of watching Stephen "What Are These Things that You Call Hips" Nicholas and Curtis "I Have No Clue What to Do when I'm More than 1 yard Away from the Line of Scrimmage" Lofton, Dent is a breath of fresh air by comparison.

In an ideal world, the Falcons will get a true everydown MLB next year and move Dent to SAM, or draft a nickel specialist like a young Wes Woodyard to replace him. But Dent is off to a much better start than Lofton was at the same point in his career, and is a significant improvement over Nicholas thus far.

Now I say that of course, and Jared Cook will catch 5 passes for 85 yards this week on Dent. :so:


There's more I could point out if I had more time to go through and do it but I just don't have the same confidence you do and even if I grade on a curve, he's not doing good enough for me. I'd rather pull him on passing downs and put Schillinger in there or maybe even Bartu who's a good bit faster. Maybe he'll progress, we'll see :)

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 Post subject: Re: Official Week 2 vs. Rams Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:52 am 
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Per Bartu starting this past week--I won... :rofl: :dance:

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