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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:32 am 
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You're right fun gus, Smitty didn't have to play Roddy despite not having a 4th WR. That's on him. Although I still contend it's an easy choice to make when you consider that 40% of Roddy White is still better than 100% of Drew Davis. Unless of course Drew Davis suddenly starts to produce, and then that is only going to make matters worse in regards to how Smitty/Koetter handled the first month of the year.

And you're right, if HD is going to be a starter for the rest of this season, he should be pulled off punts. Although I did notice T.Y. Hilton returning punts for the Colts last night. And I've noticed that Julian Edelman, Wes Welker, Patrick Peterson, Antonio Brown, Tavon Austin, and Darren Sproles all serving key roles on their teams respective return units this year, so again, we can't act like Smith is alone in the "bad coaching" jail.

And it's hard to decipher in these trying times, who is criticizing Smitty for the sake of criticism, and who is criticizing Smitty because they are still trying to build their case as to why he needs to be fired. Maybe if you are in the former, you should start all posts with "I don't think we should fire Smitty buuuut..."

Would make it easier for us to not waste our breath to argue why three injury-related screw-ups in four years is probably not a great reason to fire a head coach. At that point, you're just looking for an excuse to fire him.

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:46 am 
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Pudge wrote:
You're right fun gus, Smitty didn't have to play Roddy despite not having a 4th WR. That's on him. Although I still contend it's an easy choice to make when you consider that 40% of Roddy White is still better than 100% of Drew Davis. Unless of course Drew Davis suddenly starts to produce, and then that is only going to make matters worse in regards to how Smitty/Koetter handled the first month of the year.

And you're right, if HD is going to be a starter for the rest of this season, he should be pulled off punts. Although I did notice T.Y. Hilton returning punts for the Colts last night. And I've noticed that Julian Edelman, Wes Welker, Patrick Peterson, Antonio Brown, Tavon Austin, and Darren Sproles all serving key roles on their teams respective return units this year, so again, we can't act like Smith is alone in the "bad coaching" jail.

And it's hard to decipher in these trying times, who is criticizing Smitty for the sake of criticism, and who is criticizing Smitty because they are still trying to build their case as to why he needs to be fired. Maybe if you are in the former, you should start all posts with "I don't think we should fire Smitty buuuut..."

Would make it easier for us to not waste our breath to argue why three injury-related screw-ups in four years is probably not a great reason to fire a head coach. At that point, you're just looking for an excuse to fire him.


look, how many times do I have to say Smith shouldn't be fired?

why the excuse-making? I just don't get it. This was a no brainer. HD returning punts is a no brainer.

There was no reason for Roddy to play 4 qtrs vs the JETS. He is now injured for one-three games, and will struggle even more for the rest of the season. For no good reason. And then, Roddy comes out and says 'oops'. Why make excuses ( Roddy>DrewDavis)?

'Sh*t' in one hand, and have 'Faith' in the other, and see which fills up first. Mike Smith compromised our window at the Superbowl last year for no good reason. We should have been in New Orleans. Instead, it's more likely they will win ANOTHER Supebowl this year which is going to make life very difficult for those of us that live here with 1/4 the relocated population of New Orleans and going to the games..That wasn't just a 'mistake' that was piss poor communication and trying to get the team to 'buy-in' fresh off the taste of the Giant Fiasco(tm). Not being able to look down the road, and see the long picture, living completely in the moment.

How he is managing Roddy is along the same lines. Instead of looking down the schedule, he opted to live in the moment, he threw him out there, and now were proper-f*cked. It just was so unneccessary and short-sighted. And it is telling.

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:24 am 
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Quote:
There was no reason for Roddy to play 4 qtrs vs the JETS


I would say winning the game is a good reason. By all accounts, the week leading up to the Jets game Roddy was the healthiest he's been all year. He said it. Other players said it. He didn't re-injure his ankle. He hurt his hammy.

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Instead of looking down the schedule, he opted to live in the moment, he threw him out there,


Again, I don't think anyone "threw" Roddy out there. If Roddy couldn't play, he wouldn't have. If the team doctor said he shouldn't play, he wouldn't have. If Smitty had a better optioned than a gimpy White, it's safe to assume he would have used it.


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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:31 am 
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AJ51, normally, I'd agree with you 100%. But then Roddy came out and said, "I wish I would have sat for a couple of games." That changes everything.


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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:50 am 
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RobertAP wrote:
AJ51, normally, I'd agree with you 100%. But then Roddy came out and said, "I wish I would have sat for a couple of games." That changes everything.


It depends. FG is assuming Smitty forced him to play. That's why he's fired up. But, I am 99.9% sure that wasn't the case.

More likely scenerio:

Smitty to White - "How's the ankle feeling Roddy"?
White, logging off his twitter account - "It's feeling good coach, I'm ready to go".
Smith gives him the Fonzerelli two thumbs up. On his way to his office, Smith peeks his head into the training room. "Any reason we can't play White"?
Trainer- "If he can take the pain, he can play".

or

Smitty to White - "How's the ankle feeling Roddy?"
White, logging off his twitter account - "Aw, coach, it hurts bad. I don't think I can go. Better put Davis in."
Smitty, turning redder then a Mcintosh apple - "Roddy, you f****' pussy. You play when I say you're gonna play or I'll fine your ass back to the stone ages. Or better yet, I'll pull a Belichick and put in a Twitter/Media ban on your ass"
White, looks at his Iphone, looks at Smith, back at his Iphone. "Okay coach" sniffles..."I'll play"


Last edited by AngryJohnny51 on Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:12 pm 
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I don't think it's an assumption that Smith forced him to play. The assumption is that Smith has the last word, and should know better. Let Roddy play the first series so that he can keep his streak going, then sit him for the rest of the game.

Look, I didn't agree with Fun Gus when he got mad at Smith for keeping Abraham in the last regular season game last year. But Fun Gus is right, this is looking to be a running theme with Smith. He plays his players when he shouldn't.


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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:24 pm 
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RobertAP wrote:
He plays his players when he shouldn't.



okay lets review:

#1
Roddy White still isn’t where he wants to be, but will play Sunday
Posted by Josh Alper on September 27, 2013, 1:53 PM EDT

When Falcons wide receiver Roddy White initially hurt his ankle in August, the Falcons said that he had not suffered the dreaded high ankle sprain that has kept many a player from being in the lineup.

White later admitted that it was that type of injury, although his play on the field through the first three weeks would have made it clear that this is a fairly severe sprain. White has been mostly a decoy through the first three games, playing a reduced number of snaps and seeing a drop in his targets as well.

Vaughn McClure of ESPN.com reports that White said Friday that he still isn’t where he wants to be in his recovery from the injury, but will once again “gut it out” against the Patriots on Sunday night. McClure adds that White also said that he’ll rest up during the team’s bye week, which comes after they host the Jets in Week Five.

White’s limited effectiveness hasn’t appeared to hurt his ability to concern defenses as Julio Jones leads the NFL in receiving yards to this point in the season. Still, it will be a good day for the Falcons offense when White returns to full speed and makes them even more difficult to stop.


#2

After playing 97 percent of snaps, Falcons WR Roddy White still not 100 percent healthy
Posted: 12:45 p.m. Friday, Oct. 4, 2013By D. Orlando Ledbetter

FLOWERY BRANCH --- In his quest to become 100 percent healthy from a high right ankle sprain, Falcons wide receiver Roddy White suffered a set back after playing extensively against New England.
He played his most action of the season against New England. He played 74 of 76 (97 percent) of the offensive snaps.

“Yeah, and I learned a very valuable lesson from that,” White said. “I ain’t where I need to be yet.”

Asked if he was 100 percent, White said, “I don’t know. I’ll tell you after the bye week.”

White, who's posted six consecutive 1,000-yard seasons, has just 10 catches for 84 yards and no touchdowns this season. He suffered the high ankle sprain against the Baltimore Ravens on Aug. 15.

He played 37 of 56 (66 percent) of the offensive snaps against New Orleans. He played 34 of 64 (53 percent) of the snaps against the Rams. He played 47 of 71 (66%) of the snaps against Miami.

“I’ve got to get right,” White said. “The bye week is coming at really, really good time. No vacation. No time off for Roddy. No cruising. No, none of that. I’ll be cruising right here in the training room.”

After the opener, White revealed that he had a high ankle sprain. He thought at the time he would be 100 percent recovered in two to three weeks.

After playing so much against New England, White doesn't believe he's reached 100 percent yet.

#3


Oct 8, 2013

Atlanta Falcons wide receiver Roddy White left in the fourth quarter of Monday night’s loss to the New York Jets with a hamstring injury and did not return.

White had four catches for 45 yards on the night, which ended in a 30-28 loss on Jets kicker Nick Folk’s last-second field goal.

White has been battling a different kind of leg injury — a high ankle sprain — for much of the season already. That injury has limited his time in practice and tanked his production on the field.

His reception total and total yardage on Monday night were both season-highs. On the season, he has only 10 receptions for 84 yards, and he has caught no touchdown passes."

#4:
Posted: 1:08 p.m. Saturday, Oct. 12, 2013By D. Orlando Ledbetter

Falcons wide receiver Roddy White, who’s been battling through a hamstring injury, has been pretty somber the last couple of times we checked in with him in the locker room.


--White wished he’d sat down for a couple of games at the beginning of the season with his high right ankle sprain instead of playing as a decoy. (Receiver Roddy White has been decent in the first half of games, with 11 catches on 13 targets for 108 yards, according to profootballfocus.com. In the second half he has disappeared, with three catches on eight targets for 21 yards.)


look at the dates. Roddy was injured, and chose to play injured, and now he regrets it. And so do I. We could have had a healthier Roddy, but that would mean Smith would have to grow a pair and sit his a$$, and Roddy, who is no spring chicken, and approaching a contract year would have to use a little common sense.

the defense of the truly indefensible is rapidly approaching Vick-like status. 'Aww, c;mon...Look around...He is not 'that bad'..'. I detest that line of 'thought' because it inevitably leads to mediocrity.

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Quote:
We could have had a healthier Roddy, but that would mean Smith would have to grow a pair and sit his a$$, and Roddy, who is no spring chicken, and approaching a contract year would have to use a little common sense.


If you have veteran player, especially a veteran star player who says he can play, guess what, you play him. If Smith "benched" Roddy he risks losing respect from his players and thus losing the locker room.

Or maybe that's what you were hoping?????

Quote:
the defense of the truly indefensible is rapidly approaching Vick-like status. 'Aww, c;mon...Look around...He is not 'that bad'..'. I detest that line of 'thought' because it inevitably leads to mediocrity.


You are certainly entitled to your opinions, and I respect them. Believe it or not, I always try to see both sides. I am definitely not always right. In this case though, I'm having a hard time seeing your argument.

As near as I can tell, Smith is playing his best players, trying to win. A dinged up Roddy is better than a healthy Davis. It really doesn't matter now anyways. This season is a wash, Roddy or not. By your logic, should we sit Roddy the rest of the year so he is completely healthy for next season???


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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:53 pm 
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I'm with Johnny on this and think you are taking a big leap of faith, FG, when you suggest with Abe we go to the SB last year. would it have helped? Possibly maybe even probably. There is no way of knowing. You've always leaned a little toward the hyperbolic and to the cautionary regarding trying not to get guys hurt. Remember when Turner had had a couple of games with fumbles and you said it "had to be addressed?" What does that mean and what makes you think it wouldn't be unless the only addressing you can see is an outwardly obvious one where MT gets benched. Similarly, with MS does it mean all these issues are glossed over unless he gets fired? Do you think there have been no conversations about all this at FB and that they are not now saying the same thing you are. But as I suggest in my batter analogy, it is always easier after the pitch to say what you should have done. You will counter with that you said it before the pitch....well, what if you miss the ball by swinging? You're still out. What if we sit Roddy and lose? Then would everyone be saying, "What if White had played?"

It's all about pain management as Johnny says. If the player feels he can go then he plays. I cannot personally tell you the dif between a high ankle sprain and a low one and realize that typically they are a slower heal but it is all relative. I can say I cut my finger and that could be anything from a paper cut to down to the bone. Sitting at 1-4 we could say we could have played all second string and have the starters healthy as a horse and be no worse record wise. I don't think MS or TD are flawless by any means. I just don't think they are or should be close to getting fired.

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:00 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
I'm with Johnny on this and think you are taking a big leap of faith, FG, when you suggest with Abe we go to the SB last year. would it have helped? Possibly maybe even probably. There is no way of knowing. You've always leaned a little toward the hyperbolic and to the cautionary regarding trying not to get guys hurt. Remember when Turner had had a couple of games with fumbles and you said it "had to be addressed?" What does that mean and what makes you think it wouldn't be unless the only addressing you can see is an outwardly obvious one where MT gets benched. Similarly, with MS does it mean all these issues are glossed over unless he gets fired? Do you think there have been no conversations about all this at FB and that they are not now saying the same thing you are. But as I suggest in my batter analogy, it is always easier after the pitch to say what you should have done. You will counter with that you said it before the pitch....well, what if you miss the ball by swinging? You're still out. What if we sit Roddy and lose? Then would everyone be saying, "What if White had played?"

It's all about pain management as Johnny says. If the player feels he can go then he plays. I cannot personally tell you the dif between a high ankle sprain and a low one and realize that typically they are a slower heal but it is all relative. I can say I cut my finger and that could be anything from a paper cut to down to the bone. Sitting at 1-4 we could say we could have played all second string and have the starters healthy as a horse and be no worse record wise. I don't think MS or TD are flawless by any means. I just don't think they are or should be close to getting fired.



I disagree.

Look, Im well 'aware' that I appear 'Hyperbolic'. I don't have a problem with that :wink: I think Blank is just as Hyperbolic. I asked you guys what your opinion would be had we gotten blown out in the first round of the playoffs last season, and the general consensus ( besides me, RAP and Blank) was Smith was 'safe' because he was the 'best coach evar'. I would have sent him packing.

But: progress was made. So he gets a pass this year. However, if we struggle next season, and Smith and Co are still making these dumb decisions, then all bets are 'off'.

Sonething I have noticed the past 3 seasons is the Falcons going from being 'proactive' to 'reactive'. Matt's contract. Ray Edwards making it to November instead of getting cut in October, and the only reason for that was he dissed the coach in front of Blank post game. Reactive. The Jones deal was 'reactive'. The penalties and absolute lack of depth we are seeing this season is 'reactive'. Proactive would have us having a Plan B. But, we dont have one. Furthemore, it doesn't even appear like anyone is looking around to sign some help right now!? Robiske!

look at the 2010 Packers. They were more injured then we are now, and they won it all. How did they do it? They were PROACTIVE.

When Jolly went down, they had a DE ( Pickett) who filled in nicely. They lost Cullen Jenkins for the last part of the regular season, but they did not 'rush him back', they kept him in a boot and on the pine in week 17 to keep him fresh for the postseason. They signed Howard Greene when the Jets cut him, and a week later he got 4 tackles for a loss on them ( also, he forced a fumble vs Rapelisburger in the Superbowl that was returned for a TD). In short, they had depth, they managed thier injuries as well as could be expected, they signed FA help when they needed it most. The Packers went on to win to the Super Bowl with 15 players on injured reserve, six opening day starters (three on offense, three on defense) and eight different players who started at least one game! So, it absolutely CAN be done.

I think it is a fair point to say even if Abe hadn't started and was healthy, he still might have been invisible in the playoffs. I doubt it highly, but it's 'fair'. But, I think it is just as 'fair' to say that having a DE with contain skills could have been helpful in the playoffs last year.

Look, when you have a guy who has been vocally outspoken about being injured, and not being able to do his job effectively for 4-5 weeks, and you still let him play late in a game before the bye, that to me is just abominable. It's worse when you realize that these kind of mistakes have been made before and publically acknowedged.

Can you imagine how different our season would look with a healthy Roddy and Julio out? But, instead, our coach was too pitiful to sit his 'star' player, and now were paying for it. That really is the crux of this issue. We have a disconnect here. You cannot have three things working against you: bad injury management, game day goofs and the inability to get on the same draft page as the GM. You can survive one or two, but not three. So going forward, Mike Smith and TD need to show me they 'get it'. Or, I will end my 13 year season-ticket buying ways next year, even more so with the stadium fiasco and getting burned for a stupid London football game, which will wreak havoc on our team.

One or two more years, guys.... Get your sh*t straight next season, be proactive and get us back in the mix, or prepare your resume's.

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:29 pm 
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Fun gus, I agree with nearly everything you said in your last post (not so much the previous ones). You're right, the Falcons are too reactive. They don't work out any players until there is an injury. They don't ever pick up players on their practice squad, just treat it as a redshirt system with the same 8 guys that begin the year on it ending the year on it, and then the next year the majority of the time all 8 guys are cut and replaced with 8 new faces. And you watch these other players that are off/on other teams practice squads and go onto have success.

I said it last year, that Smitty F-ed up for not pulling Abe & the rest of the key starters late in the 3rd quarter. I don't agree with the idea that it cost us the Super Bowl. I think there are 28 reasons why the Falcons didn't go to the Super Bowl last year, and to say that Abe's injury was #1 on that list, I think is silly. But it was an indefensible decision, not pulling key players like Abe in a meaningless game at a point where the game was probably over (down 2 scores).

And I'm with you that Roddy should have never played in the 1st place. Said as much at one point. But I think his decision, while still wrong, is a bit more defensible here. Roddy was seemingly improving each week, and the Falcons were losing games, so I understand why Smitty made the decision he did. Doesn't make it right, but I can understand in his willingness to win now, he skimped on the risk/reward assessment.

Although they are similar, the Abe situation last year and this year's sitch with Roddy are separate instances. They are 2 isolated incidents with similar circumstances. And to say that this, as well as the Turner thing of 2009 are all related and a "running theme" with Smith, then it's ignoring all the times where he did have an injured player and didn't rush them back. Or the times where he had an injured player play, but it didn't bite the team in the butt (see Asante). And that stems from the "next man up" principle where the Falcons (like most NFL teams) will throw caution to the wind in regards to "hurt" players and risk injury down the road if it means getting a win this week.

And I don't disagree with that. Injuries happen all the time, and spend too much energy trying to avoid the unavoidable, you're just wasting energy that could be spent elsewhere. I think the bigger issue in Atlanta is that because of subpar decisions made by the GM, the next man up isn't very good more often than not.

To me the bigger issue isn't Smitty's approach, decision making, or decision making process. It's the inadequacy of the front office. Because I've seen teams with the exact same approach/mentality do it better because they had better players (2010 Packers?). But I tend to be a personnel-centric guy, and I think ultimately every team is made and broken by their personnel moves.

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:44 pm 
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Good points all around, fellas, and I agree in part with much of what you both say. Maybe it is just the degree of outrage that is different. I've already quit buying STs so my dog in the fight is now much smaller. Years ago Pudge felt we waned from the original blueprint. I cannot recall if it was the JJ move or another or a group of things but I think a little bit of the sense of urgency comes from Blank and trickles down and I am not sure there is anything wrong with that. Windows open and close pretty quickly and striking while the iron is hot is not always a bad thing. I do feel that this year's all in spirit was ill advised but considering that was the org mantra the rest of the moves make more sense (TG re-signing, signing Jackson, playing RW for the perceived improved chance of winning games).

We clearly have not focused on players closest to the ball since about the first year or so of drafting. But I find it difficult to complain with the moves made considering the success we have had and if it come sot an end for a couple of years and we reload then I am cool with that. As long as you have MR I think you are going to be OK. Coaches and managers do matter and I can be loyal to a fault but I don't often prescribe to the notion that addition is always brought about by subtraction.

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:26 pm 
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backnblack wrote:
Years ago Pudge felt we waned from the original blueprint. I cannot recall if it was the JJ move or another or a group of things but I think a little bit of the sense of urgency comes from Blank and trickles down and I am not sure there is anything wrong with that.

The JJ move was really the first major indication that we were abandoning, "the system." I was very much on board with, "the system," and my opinion of the management went south when we got away from it. From where I'm standing, it looks like this team is adrift.


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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:43 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Fun gus, I agree with nearly everything you said in your last post (not so much the previous ones). I said it last year, that Smitty F-ed up for not pulling Abe & the rest of the key starters late in the 3rd quarter. And I'm with you that Roddy should have never played in the 1st place. Said as much at one point. But I think his decision, while still wrong, is a bit more defensible here. Roddy was seemingly improving each week, and the Falcons were losing games, so I understand why Smitty made the decision he did. Doesn't make it right, but I can understand in his willingness to win now, he skimped on the risk/reward assessment.

Although they are similar, the Abe situation last year and this year's sitch with Roddy are separate instances. They are 2 isolated incidents with similar circumstances. And to say that this, as well as the Turner thing of 2009 are all related and a "running theme" with Smith, then it's ignoring all the times where he did have an injured player and didn't rush them back. Or the times where he had an injured player play, but it didn't bite the team in the butt (see Asante). And that stems from the "next man up" principle where the Falcons (like most NFL teams) will throw caution to the wind in regards to "hurt" players and risk injury down the road if it means getting a win this week.

And I don't disagree with that. Injuries happen all the time, and spend too much energy trying to avoid the unavoidable, you're just wasting energy that could be spent elsewhere. I think the bigger issue in Atlanta is that because of subpar decisions made by the GM, the next man up isn't very good more often than not.

To me the bigger issue isn't Smitty's approach, decision making, or decision making process. It's the inadequacy of the front office. Because I've seen teams with the exact same approach/mentality do it better because they had better players (2010 Packers?)..



But here is where we always 'end up'. It is almost always 'yes, I agree that Smith could do a better job at ____....BUT:______"

I really dont like that kind of 'pragmatism'. To me, it screams the futility of 'it is what it is'. That is just not right.

The 'defense' of Smitty/TD always seems to go the same way. " well, look around..who would be 'better'? " or..."if you look at the 'big picture' ( which always seems to include having to watch every other game, or spend alot of time comparing stuff...) they are not THAT BAD. I get it, I have been a Falcons Fan long enough...


I am not engineered to accept that.

Plus, I posted examples of overcoming injuries, that was done before. This league is a copycat league, but some people are just trying to be 'smarter' then others. Guess who?

But for me, the inexcusable, ( read that inexcusable) dumb injury decisions have bit us in the collective a$$ twice, big time, now. Im okay with the occasional f*ckup. That is to be expected. But to see this coming 2 weeks away, and nobody in the Org has a clue, is not good. Same thing with Harry D. Pudge has already built in an 'excuse'. 'See? These OTHER coaches are bad, too..Even they do the same stupid thing..Maybe HD gets injured returning a punt, but alot of guys do the same..So dont single out Mike Smith because, well it happens'.

THAT STUFF DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!

It's one thing to have to deal with the crap TD has sent down the pike. But, it doesn't 'help' that the coach is in a players back pocket, to the detriment of the team. Read the above 3 weeks before the JETS game for ANYTHING that would suggest playing Roddy so much was a 'good decision'.

He was in good shape for the JETS game? He 'looked good'? OMG. Roddy has been MAYBE 40%, and that is being GENEROUS, yall. He was hurting us and himself at the same time. Pride and Arrogance. :hand:

Im a solution guy. Here's something. It's not much, but it is something. Trade our 5th next year for K Britt from the Titans. Our 5th round picks under D'Troff have been hit or miss. If you really think this is boom or bust, at least try. Im not saying giving up a 2nd for Hakeem Nicks, but a fourth or a fifth and a conditional pick for this guy seems reasonable, right?

But that would mean trying something 'different'. Bringing in a possible Locker Room Cancer. But we have seen the Pats do this before, right?

were already in 'gambling mode' Do something!


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jas ... king-price

Or, we can go with one of the coaches kids. I mean, if your gonna throw a vet min, might as well help out those you know, right? :roll:

tragic. :ninja:

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:33 pm 
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fun gus wrote:
Same thing with Harry D. Pudge has already built in an 'excuse'. 'See? These OTHER coaches are bad, too..Even they do the same stupid thing..Maybe HD gets injured returning a punt, but alot of guys do the same..So dont single out Mike Smith because, well it happens'.

THAT STUFF DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!

It's not an excuse, it's just saying that other teams make these decisions too. And so you have to factor that in, especially if it's the "no brainer" you say it is (i.e. nobody has a brain)

Look at Peterson for the Cardinals. He's a Top 5 corner, and along with Calais Campbell and Daryl Washington is a "lynchpin" defender for a Top 10 Cardinals defense. If he was to get hurt, they'd be forced to put Javier Arenas or Tony Jefferson into the lineup. But yet, he's still returning punts. Pretty obvious reason why, when you look at his rookie season where he was the best offensive weapon for the Cardinals. And you look at the Cardinals offense of today and it's not much better (25th in scoring). The odds that Peterson gets hurt is low. We've discussed this before, but the chances of injuries are somewhere under 5% that he probably gets injured returning a punt. It might be even as low as 1 or 2%. What are the chances that he takes a punt back to the house? Probably not that much higher. But at least in Arians mind, the risk is worth the reward.

I don't agree with that, not when you have perfectly acceptable if not good PRs in Andre Roberts or Tyrann Mathieu. Any risk is too much risk in regards to Peterson.

Does the same apply to Douglas? Probably not. I do think HD is a better option on PR than Alford or Franks or whoever the alternative would be. Is whatever that added value is outweighed by the risk of injury? I don't know. But I can understand if Smitty thinks it is, even if I don't agree.

Just think back with Gronk. He gets hurt on an extra point. Then the Pats rush him back and he gets reinjured last year and he misses all the offseason and now they are trying to work him back in. Look at RG3, they sit him for preseason, but fully intend for him to suit up Week 1 regardless of his health.

The moral of hte story is that NFL coaches are dumb. They don't think long-term, month to month or year to year. They think week to week. They don't think about winning in Week 13, they only care about winning in Week 7.

Should they think that way? No. Is the herd mentality a good excuse? No. But to mix metaphors, a leopard isn't going to change his spots. And unlike you fun gus, I'm not going to get all flustered over it. I can't fault you for it, but if HD pops his collarbone on Sunday while returning a punt, while you'll be raging, I'll just be saying "Oh well."

http://youtu.be/wC8y0HoopVE

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:04 am 
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FWIW, HD has not exactly been all world as PR. Seems like he got Bonehead of the Week not so long ago. Just sayin....

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:24 am 
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Pudge wrote:
fun gus wrote:
Same thing with Harry D. Pudge has already built in an 'excuse'. 'See? These OTHER coaches are bad, too..Even they do the same stupid thing..Maybe HD gets injured returning a punt, but alot of guys do the same..So dont single out Mike Smith because, well it happens'.

THAT STUFF DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!

It's not an excuse, it's just saying that other teams make these decisions too. And so you have to factor that in, especially if it's the "no brainer" you say it is (i.e. nobody has a brain)

Look at Peterson for the Cardinals. He's a Top 5 corner, and along with Calais Campbell and Daryl Washington is a "lynchpin" defender for a Top 10 Cardinals defense. If he was to get hurt, they'd be forced to put Javier Arenas or Tony Jefferson into the lineup. But yet, he's still returning punts.



and this relates how? The Cards? Using a defender, that regularly 'lives' in the 'backfield' vs a 4th WR on an injury depleted team?
:shock:

I get your point that if they 'lost' him, they would suffer..But not as much as us. Were basically tossing our last hope at WR out there when we have personell that CAN do it instead. The Cards are using thier CB because he understands the position better as a natural defender. Right?

OMG, please STOP. That is not apples=apples in any true sense of the word. Cmon, Pudge be reasonable :ninja:

Look. the argument being put forth here by you, Pudge, is the same thing again. 'Every NFL coach makes dumb mistakes'. To me, that is weak! It's a bad excuse for the inexcusable. If we lose HD returning a punt, you are right, I will rage, because it is unneccessary and stupid. Kinda like playing starters last season in a meaningless game. :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:04 am 
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Quote:
The moral of the story is that NFL coaches are dumb. They don't think long-term, month to month or year to year. They think week to week. They don't think about winning in Week 13, they only care about winning in Week 7.


It's a win now league. Coaches jobs and livelihood depend on it. You are only as good as your last game. The GM is supposed to think ahead month-month and year to year. The coach is week to week.

The Falcons have been pretty good the last few years. It's interesting to see the vultures circling after really the first major bump in the road.


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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:29 am 
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AngryJohnny51 wrote:
Quote:
The moral of the story is that NFL coaches are dumb. They don't think long-term, month to month or year to year. They think week to week. They don't think about winning in Week 13, they only care about winning in Week 7.


It's a win now league. Coaches jobs and livelihood depend on it. You are only as good as your last game. The GM is supposed to think ahead month-month and year to year. The coach is week to week.

The Falcons have been pretty good the last few years. It's interesting to see the vultures circling after really the first major bump in the road.


... talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations. :roll:

I am not asking for 'perfection'. How 'bout just use some common sense? Oh, I forgot, I am supposed to feel relieved because our coach is 'just as dumb as the next one'. :roll:

Again, the defense of the indefensible with weak arguments just like this: reminds me of the old Vick-Days. :lol: 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:38 am 
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"Soft bigotry of low expectations"....that's a good one.

What exactly is it that you want someone to say about all this, FG? That you were right because someone got injured or stayed injured or that it is a systematic and, therefore, problematic issue with the org or, seemingly more specifically, MS? Are you mad because the local media are not harping on it? FWIW, yes, the local sportswriters largely play softball but I'm not sure that this is undesirable. The way some of the media cover sports with fear and loathing while Nero fiddles away in Washington is tragic/comic.

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:22 am 
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fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:
fun gus wrote:
Same thing with Harry D. Pudge has already built in an 'excuse'. 'See? These OTHER coaches are bad, too..Even they do the same stupid thing..Maybe HD gets injured returning a punt, but alot of guys do the same..So dont single out Mike Smith because, well it happens'.

THAT STUFF DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!

It's not an excuse, it's just saying that other teams make these decisions too. And so you have to factor that in, especially if it's the "no brainer" you say it is (i.e. nobody has a brain)

Look at Peterson for the Cardinals. He's a Top 5 corner, and along with Calais Campbell and Daryl Washington is a "lynchpin" defender for a Top 10 Cardinals defense. If he was to get hurt, they'd be forced to put Javier Arenas or Tony Jefferson into the lineup. But yet, he's still returning punts.



and this relates how? The Cards? Using a defender, that regularly 'lives' in the 'backfield' vs a 4th WR on an injury depleted team?
:shock:

I get your point that if they 'lost' him, they would suffer..But not as much as us. Were basically tossing our last hope at WR out there when we have personell that CAN do it instead. The Cards are using thier CB because he understands the position better as a natural defender. Right?

OMG, please STOP. That is not apples=apples in any true sense of the word. Cmon, Pudge be reasonable :ninja:

Look. the argument being put forth here by you, Pudge, is the same thing again. 'Every NFL coach makes dumb mistakes'. To me, that is weak! It's a bad excuse for the inexcusable. If we lose HD returning a punt, you are right, I will rage, because it is unneccessary and stupid. Kinda like playing starters last season in a meaningless game. :evil:

Heh, if you think the Falcons losing Harry Douglas is a bigger loss than the Cardinals losing Patrick Peterson, then God bless you. But you're wrong. Like I said, PP is a lynchpin defender, meaning that he makes the Cardinasl defense go, and the Cardinals defense is the only reason that team is 3-3 and in playoff contention. Frankly, at this point in his career Peterson is arguably one of the 20 best defenders in the NFL and a Top 50 NFL player.

Harry Douglas is by and large J.A.G. He's not even in the Top 50 WRs, he's probably not even in the Top 80 WRs in the league. Even on a team that is already beat up at WR as much as we are. Hell, he might not even be among the Top 20 players on the Falcons today! The dropoff from HD to Davis is not as big as the dropoff from JJ/RW to HD. I fully understand the Falcons inability to compete without their Big 3, but if they can't overcome an HD injury, then maybe they should blow up this front office and coaching staff.

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:29 am 
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Pudge wrote:
fun gus wrote:
Pudge wrote:
fun gus wrote:
Same thing with Harry D. Pudge has already built in an 'excuse'. 'See? These OTHER coaches are bad, too..Even they do the same stupid thing..Maybe HD gets injured returning a punt, but alot of guys do the same..So dont single out Mike Smith because, well it happens'.

THAT STUFF DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!

It's not an excuse, it's just saying that other teams make these decisions too. And so you have to factor that in, especially if it's the "no brainer" you say it is (i.e. nobody has a brain)

Look at Peterson for the Cardinals. He's a Top 5 corner, and along with Calais Campbell and Daryl Washington is a "lynchpin" defender for a Top 10 Cardinals defense. If he was to get hurt, they'd be forced to put Javier Arenas or Tony Jefferson into the lineup. But yet, he's still returning punts.



and this relates how? The Cards? Using a defender, that regularly 'lives' in the 'backfield' vs a 4th WR on an injury depleted team?
:shock:

I get your point that if they 'lost' him, they would suffer..But not as much as us. Were basically tossing our last hope at WR out there when we have personell that CAN do it instead. The Cards are using thier CB because he understands the position better as a natural defender. Right?

OMG, please STOP. That is not apples=apples in any true sense of the word. Cmon, Pudge be reasonable :ninja:

Look. the argument being put forth here by you, Pudge, is the same thing again. 'Every NFL coach makes dumb mistakes'. To me, that is weak! It's a bad excuse for the inexcusable. If we lose HD returning a punt, you are right, I will rage, because it is unneccessary and stupid. Kinda like playing starters last season in a meaningless game. :evil:

Heh, if you think the Falcons losing Harry Douglas is a bigger loss than the Cardinals losing Patrick Peterson, then God bless you. But you're wrong. Like I said, PP is a lynchpin defender, meaning that he makes the Cardinasl defense go, and the Cardinals defense is the only reason that team is 3-3 and in playoff contention. Frankly, at this point in his career Peterson is arguably one of the 20 best defenders in the NFL and a Top 50 NFL player.

Harry Douglas is by and large J.A.G. He's not even in the Top 50 WRs, he's probably not even in the Top 80 WRs in the league. Even on a team that is already beat up at WR as much as we are. Hell, he might not even be among the Top 20 players on the Falcons today! The dropoff from HD to Davis is not as big as the dropoff from JJ/RW to HD. I fully understand the Falcons inability to compete without their Big 3, but if they can't overcome an HD injury, then maybe they should blow up this front office and coaching staff.



I'll say this: if they lose Patrick Peterson to injury when the team is up by 3 TD's late in the game, then that's the kind of thing Im talking about here. The Cards have backups at CB. Unfortunately, we do not have backup WR's here, and have made no moves ( besides Robiske) to address it. That means, HD ( who I agree is JAG, but he is our only JAG for the meantime ) should not be returning punts. I pray Mike Smith doesn't do this, but I prayed hw would not use Roddy last game, and see how well that worked out? :roll:


"
backnblack wrote:
"Soft bigotry of low expectations"....that's a good one.

What exactly is it that you want someone to say about all this, FG? That you were right because someone got injured or stayed injured or that it is a systematic and, therefore, problematic issue with the org or, seemingly more specifically, MS? Are you mad because the local media are not harping on it? FWIW, yes, the local sportswriters largely play softball but I'm not sure that this is undesirable. The way some of the media cover sports with fear and loathing while Nero fiddles away in Washington is tragic/comic.


I can accept a 'random' injury that decimates our team. What I cant abide is seeing the trainwreck coming, and hearing bad excuses made for such obvious shortcomings..

As an example: look at Pudge's pre-emptive 'defense' of using HD as a returner. This would be one of the most boneheaded moves at this point in time. Now maybe if Roddy's back in three weeks, then fine. But for now were out Julio,Roddy,and SJax, our top 3 threats. So, the smart coach does not put HD back there in this situation. But even if he does, and the worst thing happens, there will be an 'excuse' for this. I can't stand that stuff.

Remember Petrino? ( I am not comparing the two )..Recall when he cut Grady? I was scratching my head, thinking 'why in the world would you do that'? It was a precursor of things to come.

Now, I'm watching Smitty make these same mistakes again and again. And the best defense is 'well, everybody does it'..'It's the nature of the game'..The reason there is an 'excuse' built in? We are all sitting here wondering whether or not Smith would be so careless as to tempt fate by putting HD back there, when a coach like Mike McCarthy would be wise enough to not even consider it.

I hate seeing our team shoot themselves in the foot ( rhetorically speaking ) when were down. It doesn't make sense to me, it seems out of place for the team I thought we were. I guess that's why it bothers me so much, because right now we need to avoid making these kind of mistakes..."

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:40 am 
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backnblack wrote:
FWIW, HD has not exactly been all world as PR. Seems like he got Bonehead of the Week not so long ago. Just sayin....

I think he's been much better than you give him credit for.

fun gus wrote:
I can accept a 'random' injury that decimates our team. What I cant abide is seeing the trainwreck coming, and hearing bad excuses made for such obvious shortcomings..

http://espn.go.com/blog/atlanta-falcons ... nt-returns

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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:43 am 
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 Post subject: Re: we need to sit Roddy White
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Quote:
I am not asking for 'perfection'. How 'bout just use some common sense?


Here is the problem. Everyone's "common sense" is different. Mine tells me that you play your best players and try to win every week. Just because it falls in line with what Smitty does doesn't mean I'm a worshipper....he has his flaws. Your "common sense" tells you to rest anyone who's dinged up, to live to fight for another day.

This is where I am having a hard time wrapping my head around your beef. Bench Roddy and sacrifice a few games at the beginning of the year or play him and try to win them all?

The point you are missing is we are a better team with a 70% Roddy than a 99% Davis. And if I'm wrong I'm sure you will let me know, but it seems that you are against putting the best team possible on the field on any given Sunday?


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