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 Post subject: Mushn Muhammed stats compared to Falcon receivers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:51 am 
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Just taking a look at Mushn Muhammed's stats compared to the falcon current receivers and tight ends to see how they compare.He was a free agent last year but almost everyone on this board did not want him because he is to old and not fast enough.
no catches yds
Crumpler 7 107
Jenkins 4 102
Finneran 7 47
D White 1 11
Blakely 1 9
R White 0 0


Mushn Muhammed 12 140

Remember Muhammed has a rookie QB throwing to him and still blows the falcon receivers away.The Falcon's singed Hartwell and with 2 games played who would you rather have hartwell or Muhammed? Did falcon management go after the wrong guy? I am starting to think the best way to get a receiver is free agency.When the falcon's signed price they were to optimistic on converting price from a no2 receiver to a 1.Most quality receivers do not make it to free agency since temas tag themHere we had a chance to get a proven receiver yet the Falcon's passed.Man he would sure look good now!


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 Post subject: Re: Mushn Muhammed stats compared to Falcon receivers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:48 am 
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thescout wrote:
Just taking a look at Mushn Muhammed's stats compared to the falcon current receivers and tight ends to see how they compare.He was a free agent last year but almost everyone on this board did not want him because he is to old and not fast enough.
no catches yds
Crumpler 7 107
Jenkins 4 102
Finneran 7 47
D White 1 11
Blakely 1 9
R White 0 0


Mushn Muhammed 12 140

Remember Muhammed has a rookie QB throwing to him and still blows the falcon receivers away.The Falcon's singed Hartwell and with 2 games played who would you rather have hartwell or Muhammed? Did falcon management go after the wrong guy? I am starting to think the best way to get a receiver is free agency.When the falcon's signed price they were to optimistic on converting price from a no2 receiver to a 1.Most quality receivers do not make it to free agency since temas tag themHere we had a chance to get a proven receiver yet the Falcon's passed.Man he would sure look good now!


No, the Falcons didn't go after the wrong guy. Though Hartwell hasn't done much so far, we had to up grade on defense. Muhammed is old and the Falcons would have been crazy to sign him for what Chicago did. (6 year, 30 mil with 12 garaunteed.) The Falcon philosiphy is, and I agree with, let Vick, Jenkins, and Rowdy grow together. The Falcons are not going to be like the Raiders, where they over pay for older veterans, they are building from the bottom up, with young players through the draft.

I think a common misconception with most Falcons fans is that this team is "there" and ready to compete with the big boys year in and year out. Well, it's not. It still is a work in progress as we don't have all the pieces to the puzzle yet. The team is getting better and McKay and company know what we need to reach that next level. Time.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:52 pm 
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I think you are way off base on this one. Both Jenkins and Roddy will develop into at least above-average receivers if for nothing else but their ability to create seperation. I think the biggest part of the problem is that we don't let Vick pass enough! You can't develop if you aren't getting exerpience. I really think we need to open up the offense and let Vick & Jenkins develop chemistry which is what they need.

IMO we are still about two years out from a Super Bowl. We need to draft another shutdown corner, draft/sign a nickel corner now that Mathis is gone, and we need to find a repalcement for Brady Smith. We also need to resolve our runningback situation. I don't care what anyone says our RB's and platooning them hurts us more then helps us. Especially since the coaching staff never knows how to use Duckett & Dunn properly. We need a single "do-it-all" back.

Also scout... Mushin is not blowing our receivers away! Jenkins has 104 Yards @ 26 yards per catch. Do you know how long people have been whining for a reciever like that? Mushin in comparison has 11 yards per catch and only 40 extra receiving yards. The primary reason Mushin has 12 catches is because he is the ONLY option on that team as a receiver. Plus Chicago doesn't have any good receiving tight ends.

I personally like Jenkins and he is doing what he is suppose to do... Get separation so Vick can throw his bombs an dopen up the defense. When Roddy comes online, watch out! Because both can stretch the field.

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 Post subject: Will Jenkins develop and where is roddy!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:04 pm 
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I don't think I am as off base as we see the falcon's continually not having a go to receiver.Remember Muhammed is playing with a rookie QB which means he doesn't know the system as well as veterans and is learning defenses.Had Muhammed been playing with a veteran he would have more receptions and yards. We don't know if Jenkins will develop is the problem in a time when the falcon's need a receiver that is proven and hang on to the ball.It is only his second game so I am not panicking and Roddy White from all accounts should be the no1 receiver soon. Remember that there are alot of receviers who are busts and it is way to early to tell but the falcon's are at a stage where receiver is becoming a main draw back to there development.

I personally may have tohught twice about signing muhammed because of his contract and years and tieing up money.Also remember tampa bay for years had been trying to get a no1 receiver with no luck.Who is to say jenkins and white never develop? Atleast in muhammed you had a proven player.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:36 pm 
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For a season or two. His wheels are going to start falling off soon and he'll go down the path of Terry Glenn and other top-notch receivers that start to lose their edge.

Quesetion is will Mushin still have been good enough after the one or two year process to get acclimated to our offense and Vick? Me thinks he would have begun to decline and begun his metamorphasis into a #2 receiver like everyone else we have.

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 Post subject: Darn if you do darn if you don't
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:45 pm 
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Will never find out since he signed with chicago but in regards to your comments maybe muhammed proves the skeptics wrong and has a strong 4 yrs then the falcon's are still searching for there receiver like philly had until they got terrell owens.It is a mood point now but if the team wants a super bowl R White and Jenkins must develop.Another case in point David Terrell.Here is a guy having all the talent out of michigan and what does he do has poor work ethic and never puts it together so you never know about unproven players.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:59 pm 
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I agree that it's still up in the air about our WR's and I really thought Musin would have been a good addition, BUT, I would not have payed nearly what da Bears paid for him. At this point I feel like we have to at least give our WR's a chance to develop before we start looking for someone else. I hope that they will step up and from what I have seen so far it seems like they have the talent to do just that, but we will have to wait and see.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:55 pm 
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Quote:
Will never find out since he signed with chicago but in regards to your comments maybe muhammed proves the skeptics wrong and has a strong 4 yrs


Muhammed is 32 years old. He won't be going strong in 4 years, time will catch up to him as it does with everyone. He had a career year last year, his contract year, (coincidence?) and wanted a long term contract. The Falcons were looking to dump there latest FA mistake Peerless and would have been crazy to sign MM.




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but if the team wants a super bowl R White and Jenkins must develop


And that is why they are going to play tons this year. The Falcons are making their Super Bowl charge in 2 years, not this year. In those 2 years, Rowdy and Jenkins will develope along with Vick, because all 3 just aren't there yet.

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Another case in point David Terrell.Here is a guy having all the talent out of michigan and what does he do has poor work ethic and never puts it together so you never know about unproven players.


Respectfully disagree. All players now must pass the Falcons Filter. Rowdy and Jenkins for example are hard workers and all around good guys. If they weren't, they would have went the way of Bolden and Big Pay Ray. (And others)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:53 am 
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My stance on Muhammad was that it took an injury from Steve Smith for him to start playing well. He was extremely average in 2002 and 2003, and then was awesome in 2004. He was so bad in those previous two years that the Panthers were very very close to cutting him after 2003, but decided to keep him on for another year. He had a "re-emerging" year, and went on to get paid very well by the Bears.

Muhammad is not a #1 receiving threat, despite his numbers last year. He was paid like a #1 receiver, and he'll never produce like one again, when you consider his age.

If Muhammad could have been had cheap, then I would have said, let's go out on and get him. But IMO, he may have only been slightly more productive than Price was here in Atlanta, and you have to assess how much was Price's production worth?

The Bears gave him $12 million to sign. If I'm the Falcons GM, I'm not going to pay that much money to a 32-year old receiver who is probably only going to catch 50-60 balls per year here.

I do believe the Falcons need a veteran receiver presence, and right now Finneran is our best option. Dez is a FA after this year, so we'll probably need to sign a veteran to replace him. But unless we get a Top 10 receiver, there really isn't going to be a guy that comes in here and revolutionizes our position.

I'm of like mindset with the others. Vick is still developing, so I think it's better he develops with young guys like Jenkins and White, so that by 2007 or so, they should all work well together.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:33 pm 
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If anything I would have liked to have seen us sign someone like Joe J. or Az Hakim. Joe J granted is very similar to Brian Finneran but I think is a step above him. Az Hakim is a great burner and a situational receiver that can return punts/kickoffs.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:49 pm 
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The most likely probability following this year is that the team lets Dez White go, or re-signs him to a 1-year near-minimum deal. There is room in this offense for only 3 receivers because Knapp doesn't want to take Crumpler off the field, so that makes Dunn in essence our 5th wideout when the team tries to spread out defenses.

So I think what we're going to see is similar to what happened this past off-season. I think the team will promote Roddy White to the starting lineup next year like they did Jenkins in hopes that the move will inspire him to step up his play. That way, Jenkins and White will be our starters, with Finneran settled in his role as the #3.

It seems from what I've seen thus far this year, being considered the starter doesn't mean you get that many more reps than Finneran. Finneran plays a lot because the team likes to use him as the lone WR in the jumbo sets.

Hakim I think would have been a nice addition to bring some speed and YAC ability at the #3/#4 position. He will be available next off-season, so the team could still get him. I think ideally the Falcons should go after a pure speed threat like a Hakim, or Tim Dwight, or Shaun McDonald to play that #4 position and be a threat out of the slot. I've been disappointed with how the Falcons haven't tried to use Dez White's speed on the outside, although I also believe that White's speed is not as good as we all initially expected.

Looking at next year's free agent class, I don't see the Falcons going after one of the big names. It seems clear that the Falcons are trying to add size to their WR position, thus why both our p-squad signings (Youngblood and Lee) have been 6-5. So that rules out guys like Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne, Isaac Bruce, etc. as the top FA guys.

It means that the Falcons short list of FAs will probably start with David Boston (6-2), Rod Gardner (6-2), Antonio Bryant (6-1), Andre' Davis (6-1), and Corey Bradford (6-1). But that's only if the team wants to add another veteran that can be like Dez White and hold a starting job until Roddy is ready.

Two players to definitely keep your eyes on are two RFAs: Kelley Washington (6-3) and Kassim Osgood (6-5). Neither are burners, but they have good speed and meet the height requirements the Falcons prefer.

But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself with all this talk of FAs next year. It's only Week 3...

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:29 pm 
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If I was to go with anyone of those guys it would be Andre' Davis. He played with Vick at VT and has true burner speed. He would be a great slot receiver and deep threat, although I doubt his blocking is tremendous. Still, I think his pre-existing rapport with Vick would carry over & help our receiving corpse get better. We've already got plenty of big WR's so I say we go for the speed guy that Vick was hitting in college for big plays.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:46 pm 
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I firmly believe that if Hakim is an FA next year that should be our primary target. With all the draft picks we've used on the WR spot I don't see us spending big time money on the open market. Hakim will be cheap and fills the demonically fast slot receiver that we need. Best of all Hakim will be cheap and not demand or get much more then the veteran minimum. Also, I believe Hakim is 28 and Rossum is 32. Rossum's day as an elite returner are becoming numbered.

Andre Davis & Antonio Bryant are both intreging options. I think that if Bryant has a good year Cleveland will keep him as they need a #2 to work with Edwards. Davis will probably be able to test the open market. What better way to give Vick a confidence booster then signing his old go-to man?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:17 pm 
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That's a good argument for Hakim & honestly I could live with either him or Davis & both could be good returners.

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