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 Post subject: Vick should sit if he's not 100%
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:33 am 
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When you look at the schedule at the beginning of the year, you always label some games as "must-wins." This week is definitely not a must-win; it's a road game against a non-conference opponent. Obviously, you'd rather win than lose, but knowing you're going to lose some games, these are the ones you'd like them to be.

If Michael Vick's hamstring is hurting him, he's more likely to suffer a more serious injury than usual.

There's an increased risk in Vick playing, and a decreased reward. If there's any doubt about his health, he should take a week off and get ready for Minnesota.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:01 am 
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Yeah I would hate to see Vick get hurt, but at some point we have to teach him to win without using his legs or he won't play past 30 yrs old. I think this might be the best opportunity to do just that with him. With Dez out we have an excuse to throw Roddy out there and let him grow the chemistry with Jenkins some more.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:09 pm 
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If I were Mora, I'd sit Vick regardless of if he says he can go. Buffalo has one of the best if not the best defense in the league and will bring a lot of pressure all day long. Buffalo is currently giving up 76 yards a game passing, but 143 ypg rushing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what our game plan will be Sunday.

Schaub is more than capable of handing the ball of 40 times and throwing it 15 or so. Throw in the fact that the forcast call for showers in Buffalo making it a slick surface (increasing the chance of injury to Vick) I say this is a no brainer.

Vick or Schaub won't win or lose this game, the defense and rushing game is the key.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:18 pm 
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I don't think you can consider a game in Week 3 meaningless. It's one thing if you are already in the playoff chase late in the year. But I think early on you have to win all the games you can.

I'm of the mindset in that if Vick can jog, he can play. And unless he's unhealthy enough that he can't play (meaning he can't jog), then that is the only time you sit a player, especially your QB.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:28 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
I don't think you can consider a game in Week 3 meaningless. It's one thing if you are already in the playoff chase late in the year. But I think early on you have to win all the games you can.

I'm of the mindset in that if Vick can jog, he can play. And unless he's unhealthy enough that he can't play (meaning he can't jog), then that is the only time you sit a player, especially your QB.


I respect your opinion but I disagree, sort of. If Vick is less than 100% which by all accounts he will be, is it worth the season by risking tearing that hammy on a wet track in an out of conference game? Is a Vick who can't run better than Schaub at 100%?

I'm not saying go out and tank the game, but in Buffalo I'd take a healthy Schaub over a gimpy Vick on anyday.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:36 pm 
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I'd love to see Vick play this Sunday at slightly less than 100% because I feel that it would make him focus on getting the ball to his receivers. The key is going to be making sure there is enough protection for him. We have to pick up the blitz and give him hot routes to go to. I think he has the ability to move in the pocket enough to make smart decisions down the field. He just needs a reason to need to focus on his routes. If we have to pare things down some to give him less field to worry about, I think he will make some good plays with his arm. That and a solid run game will keep the BUF defense honest and give Vick a chance to succeed.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:47 pm 
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I think if Vick is at about 85% to 90% he starts and if it appears he isn't getting anything done then yank him. I would like to see Schuab start a full game and against a good pass defense to see what he is made of.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:35 pm 
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I agree with Johnny. Only if its raining though :)

I dont think we can even sit here and speculate because it will most likely be a game time decision.

And it all depends on what kind of hammy injury it is. Its its just a little tweaked all they have to do it wrap it tight with tape to stabalize it and he can be good to go. He wont lose much speed but he ability to cut might be hampered. If it is a tear (which is what most hammy injuries are) then he needs to sit because the only thing that heals that is time.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:04 pm 
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The problem is that Vick depends on his legs way more than his arm. It is his ace in the hole when he gets rushed. Surely, Vick know that without his legs he becomes more of a target and will probably rush throws or try to force them and end up giving away the ball much more.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:23 pm 
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Vick practiced today although I dont know the details of it.

He pretty much said that they will decide on sunday after giving him "tests". Which makes me believe Mora will decide after warmups.

He also said if hes even around 80% he feels he can play.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:35 pm 
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If the weather is remotely cold and it's hurting him even slightly, we would be dumb to play him...


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:47 pm 
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Especially if it's raining. If it's dry & not horribly cold, which it shouldn't be, then we should put him out there. He needs to keep learning the pocket & how to win with his arm, so we won't have to see him pull up lame over & over since his hammy's are a chronic problem already.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:35 am 
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AngryJohnny51 wrote:
If Vick is less than 100% which by all accounts he will be, is it worth the season by risking tearing that hammy on a wet track in an out of conference game?


Yes, I think it is worth the risk. If the Falcons looked like a playoff team in its first two games, then I would lean toward your opinion in that Vick should start. But from their performance vs. Seattle, who IMO is very much a borderline playoff team that may only win 7 or 8 games this year, they haven't proven to me that we are more than 8-8 or maybe 9-7 team, which in past years was good enoguh to get into the playoffs, but may not be this year because of our own division.

I personally don't want a QB that is not going to play through a hamstring sprain/strain or whatever he has that isn't significantly hobbling him. I also don't want a head coach that is going to sit our QB because he's "only" 85 or 90%. That may be good enough for a RB, OT, LB, or another position. But not your QB. If a CB is listed as questionable, IMO that means there is a 50% chance he will play. If a QB is listed as questionable, IMO it means there's a 75% chance out playing. The same things IMO don't apply from to the QB position that it applies to others. Vick had 2 separated shoulders plus a sore knee during 2002, he played through that. Brett Favre, McNabb, and McNair set the precedent for QBs in terms of playing thru pain and adversity. If you can't try to live up to their example, then you shouldn't be a starter in the NFL period.

Not to mention the fact that Vick needs to work on his passing skills. And not being able to run as easily as he used to should only help him. He should not be holding onto the ball as long this week as he normally does, which is one of the main things he needs to work on. It will also allow him to put more confidence in his peripheral players to make the plays because he won't be able to do so as easily.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:43 am 
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Pudge wrote:
AngryJohnny51 wrote:
If Vick is less than 100% which by all accounts he will be, is it worth the season by risking tearing that hammy on a wet track in an out of conference game?


Yes, I think it is worth the risk. If the Falcons looked like a playoff team in its first two games, then I would lean toward your opinion in that Vick should start. But from their performance vs. Seattle, who IMO is very much a borderline playoff team that may only win 7 or 8 games this year, they haven't proven to me that we are more than 8-8 or maybe 9-7 team, which in past years was good enoguh to get into the playoffs, but may not be this year because of our own division.

I personally don't want a QB that is not going to play through a hamstring sprain/strain or whatever he has that isn't significantly hobbling him. I also don't want a head coach that is going to sit our QB because he's "only" 85 or 90%. That may be good enough for a RB, OT, LB, or another position. But not your QB. If a CB is listed as questionable, IMO that means there is a 50% chance he will play. If a QB is listed as questionable, IMO it means there's a 75% chance out playing. The same things IMO don't apply from to the QB position that it applies to others. Vick had 2 separated shoulders plus a sore knee during 2002, he played through that. Brett Favre, McNabb, and McNair set the precedent for QBs in terms of playing thru pain and adversity. If you can't try to live up to their example, then you shouldn't be a starter in the NFL period.

Not to mention the fact that Vick needs to work on his passing skills. And not being able to run as easily as he used to should only help him. He should not be holding onto the ball as long this week as he normally does, which is one of the main things he needs to work on. It will also allow him to put more confidence in his peripheral players to make the plays because he won't be able to do so as easily.


Part of me agrees with that Pudge. But, maybe it's just me, I'd take a fully healthy Schaub over a 80 % Vick, especially at Buffalo. Make no mistake about it, they have good defense and are going to bring it. If Vick needs practice getting the ball out quicker, this isn't the defense to be doing it on in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:40 pm 
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AngryJohnny51 wrote:
Part of me agrees with that Pudge. But, maybe it's just me, I'd take a fully healthy Schaub over a 80 % Vick, especially at Buffalo. Make no mistake about it, they have good defense and are going to bring it.


What does it say about the quality of our QB and our overall team if our starter can't beat the Bills, who are another borderline playoff team, when he's less than 100%. Because you can be sure going through the grueling season, he won't be 100% come January when he's facing the Eagles or Panthers, or some other NFC team in the playoffs.

If Vick doesn't play and we lose, all the excuses will say we lost because Vick was out.

If Vick doesn't play and we win, what's the benefit? We have a bit more confidence in Matt Schaub? But does that really matter, because unless he destroys Buffalo, few are going to have the confidence that he's going to be able to beat teams like Carolina, Philly, New England, Pittsburgh, or any of the other top teams in the league that we may face in January/February. Building confidence in Matt Schaub seems to me something that should be pretty low on the Falcons agenda.

If Vick plays and we lose, then it indicates to me that this is not as good a team as we think. For a team that is supposed to be on par with the Eagles can't beat either the Bills or Seahawks on the road, definitely is not on par with them.

If Vick plays and we win, then of course it inspires confidence everywhere. And IMO, that is well worth the risk of Vick's further injury. Because a hamstring strain is an injury that even off 1 or 2 weeks rest he could go out and reinjure it just as easily.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:13 pm 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
I think if Vick is at about 85% to 90% he starts and if it appears he isn't getting anything done then yank him. I would like to see Schuab start a full game and against a good pass defense to see what he is made of.


ill take a 80% pick over schaub, you guys say how much ud rather have schaub and hes better at throwing but hes constantlly throwing interceptions, im sure schaubs good, maybe starting for another team, but some people gotta realize we aint got a chance without our starter in there....vick will learn to pass a little better....you cant not get better at something you do all the time....theres always room for improvement...


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