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 Post subject: Profootball Talk article on Vick's passing skills!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:54 pm 
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Ron Mexico Gets Testy.



After leading the Falcons' offense to 17 (not 71) points against the Dolphins on Sunday, quarterback Michael Vick lit into folks who have dared to acknowledge the obvious regarding his skills as a pocket passer.



Or, more accurately, the lack thereof.



"They say I can't throw the ball from the pocket and my passing efficiency isn't that good, so I had to show everybody," Vick said. "From here on out, I don't want to hear that question again, if I can throw the ball from the pocket and if I can make plays from the pocket. I feel like I answered them, so I don't ever want to hear it again."



Okay, Mike. You're the boss. We'll never again mention the fact that you're an elusive runner who isn't tall enough to see over the offensive line and who bails out of the pocket at the first sign of pressure and who then decides on a seat-of-the-pants basis whether to run or pass and who throws it if at all to the one pass-catcher who can actually be seen and who periodically delivers the ball with precision to someone other than the tight end from a location other than at or near the sidelines.



But we can still talk about the herp, right?



Frankly, we didn't put much stock in Vick's drawbacks as a quarterback until his team began to try to conceal his limitations by blaming the lack of a passing game on the wideouts. We merely thought that the issue was the organization's stubborn insistence on cramming Vick's round-pegged talent into the square hole of the West Coast Offense (which, it was explained at one point, isn't really the West Coast Offense because Atlanta isn't, you know, on the West Coast). But when the Falcons started pointing fingers at guys like Dez White and Peerless Price instead of merely acknowledging that Vick was and is a work in progress, we joined the chorus of folks who don't react well to being force-fed a fistful of fried bullsh-t.



If we were coaching this guy up, we'd devise an offense aimed at maximizing his skills and concealing his weaknesses. We wouldn't try to make him something he isn't; we'd merely try to win with what he is.



Maybe Jim Mora will figure that out, not that he's kicked his ammonia habit.



Given that the team is doing pretty darn well with Vick in a system that doesn't suit him, we can only imagine how good he and the team would be if he were in an offense tailor-made for his incredible gifts.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:05 pm 
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I can't say that I don't disagree with the article. I'm curious as to whether or not Vick intentionally stayed in the pocket against Miami to prove people wrong?

Anywho as time goes on I do wonder if Atlanta should have stuck with Reeves offense which seemed to fit Vick better the Knapp's WCO. But the real question is that does an offense exist that Vick fits into? I'd be willing to say no to that question. So the next question is what offensive system does Vick fit the best? For that anything that lets Vick stretch the offense and fire bombs down field opening up the running lanes so that not only Vick but his backs can wreak havoc on the ground. Reeves' offense fit that bill much better then Knapp's offense.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:09 pm 
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I'll again reiterate that I like this site, but it's pretty clear to me that this guy hasn't seen Vick play unless it's been on Monday Night this year. Which is understandable, since you pretty much either have to be an uber NFL fan or Falcon fan to watch Falcons games when its not on primetime.

He would not be making the statements about Dez White if he saw some of his performances this year.

Unlike the majority of Falcon fans, I think Peerless Price got a bit of a raw deal here in Atlanta. That's not to say he played well, but he wasn't the absolutely worst receiver we've seen. he was just overpaid and I think too much scrutiny and negative press was deflected his way. I mean he did outplay Dez White on almost all occassions. And Michael Jenkins hasn't quite been a breath of fresh air when you compare him to Price's play over the past 2 years. So I agree somewhat with Mike Florio (author of Pro Football Talk) in that blaming Vick's issues solely on the WRs is unjustified.

But I don't think that has been the case. Price was cut for 1 main reason: his price tag. His play had not quite justified him holding the starting position. And the team wasn't going to pay $3 million to a backup receiver that didn't play special teams. White was demoted because he plain sucked. Whatever strides he made in 2004 were totally erased this year. And he took a huge step back.

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 Post subject: I think the DEnver offense of the 90's fits!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:36 pm 
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I think the best offense of Vick is like the bronco offense of the 90's with Elway,Davis,Sharpe,Mccafrey the falcons have dunn,crumpler,R White,Finneran granted way way to early to think that our players will develop like the broncos players did.Elway had a big arm and could run(not as good as vick) but the way shanahan incorporates his offense back in the 90's I felt the broncos could steam roll you every time on offense. I think the falcon's could develop into that offense if we did not have the WCO.

Reeve's offense still was to conservative just sitting on the ball but with the right offensive mind could open up the pass and still run the ball.Here is a shot in the dark maybe after next year or the next if the falcon's don't proceed in the playoffs maybe blank gets fed up and wants to change things.The Falcon's go after norm chow even though he may be under contract.If a coach wants out usually they can find loop holes to get out and it would be interesting to see what chow could do with vick,but it is a shot in the dark.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:38 pm 
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Reeves offense wasn't the problem as his plays were sound. The man calling the shots (Reeves himself) was the problem. Reeves was an ultra conservative play caller who never made halftime adjustments. I bet Reeves offense coupled with Mora Jr.'s ability to make halftime adjustments and the right play caller would really make Vick blossum. Ironically I think Vick did better with the complex language of Reeves system as opposed to the simpleton language of Knapp's system.

I'm not calling for Reeves to coach again but I don't think his offensive system got a fair shake.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:48 pm 
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I think Reeve's system was perfect, but like everyone has said alreay, the play calling wasn't perfect...

I am happy that we have incorporated the trips formation into our offense though...I remember Vick doing well (and Reeve's in his interview remembered it as well) with this formation....


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:16 pm 
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I personally dont care what system we run. I just want us to be a more complete team that we are right now. I'd like for us to be more balanced on offense, like against Miami but consistently.


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 Post subject: Need more deep routes!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:03 pm 
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I agree if Mike could just be consistent every team in the NFL would have to worry.I also like to see the deep bomb once in awhile.There is something to be said for teams that can strike quickly and either blow you out or play catch up.I love the colts offense and I know we run the ball more but also consider running the ball while it takes time off the clock also there is a greater chance to be stalled since you need more attempts to score than passing like the Colts do.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:15 pm 
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the deep ball is good, just please not on 3rd and short when ur on the opponents 35 and you know your gonna go for it on 4th.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:22 pm 
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Shanahan runs a WCO. Those great Broncos offensives under him were pretty much the same offense we are currently running since Shanahan successfully blended the WCO with zone blocking OL.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:23 pm 
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The best offense for Vick is the offense we're currently in.

1) Best rushing team in the NFL. Zone Blocking with Vick's broken play threat allow the Falcons to lead the NFL for the past 1.5 seasons in rushing. HUGE. Time of possession here has really helped the defense (check out the 6 games which the Falcons blew leads after the half in 2003 while Vick was not starting)

2) Knapp goes deep 2 or 3 times a game. Success hasn't really been there this season (most of the throws have been long and/or out of bounds), but the deep tosses are keeping the safeties a little more honest when the Falcons run, and when they go to Alge. And Vick hasn't been picked too often on these long tosses.

3) Vick is learning. Steve Young said it takes 5 years to truly grasp the system. I think Young is a pretty bright guy. If he suggests 3 to 5 years in the system to truly see the results, I'd trust the HOF'er on this one. I wish more Falcons Fans would just be happy that we're winning while Vick is still grasping the system (again, the Falcs are only at 1.5 yrs in this system).

4) WR play has left much to be desired. I read as of 2 weeks ago, the Falcons led the NFL in drops (I'm not sure of the updated stats). I don't know if getting rid of Price when we did was the best move (dump him before Summer Sessions to save more $$$ or keep him for the full year as he was our best WR option). There wasn't any real hope for Dez. Michael Jenkins and Roddy White are still grasping the NFL, let alone a WCO. As they both develop alongside Finn and Crumpler, the passing attack could lead this to a very balanced offensive threat (hello Detroit?)


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