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 Post subject: Greg Knapp
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:44 pm 
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I vote we push him for the head coaching job in Detroit. Now. Tonight.

Sheesh.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:51 pm 
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Yeah, I seemed to spend a lot of effort this past week defending Knapp, and he goes and blows it.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:13 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Yeah, I seemed to spend a lot of effort this past week defending Knapp, and he goes and blows it.


I like Dunn and I'm very happy to have him, but I want to slap the stew out of Knapp when he tries to run him up the gut on third and forever with the game(s) already going downhill, and he does it ALL the time. If it would EVER fool somebody, sometime, maybe it wouldn't stick in my craw so much.

I know it's only my opinion, but I consider Knapp fully responsible for [/i]at least[i] two of our losses.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:31 pm 
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everytime it was 2nd and long, which was quite often, i knew what was coming: dunn up the gut! and some of those 3rd and short plays were nuts. i've never ever liked the man's play calling, which wavers from, good to astoundingly predicatble to just plain nuts.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:04 pm 
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I don't care what plays he called, the way our line stunk today it wouldn't have mattered...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:48 am 
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Capologist wrote:
I don't care what plays he called, the way our line stunk today it wouldn't have mattered...


A very good point. I'm not at all blaming Knapp for the loss, but just like the vast majority of our players today, he definitely contributed to it.

But the truth is I believe this game was an aberration. The Falcons got outplayed from start to finish in all facets of the game. The OL had their worst game. Vick had his worst game in a month. Injuries hurt us up front. I know the defense hasn't been tackling well all year long, but it seemed to reach a different level in this game.

This is not a trend, but merely a setback as the team tried to build some momentum down the stretch. I guess, it's going to have to start over again on MNF vs. New Orleans.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:33 pm 
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I'm dropping this game squarely on the offensive line also. Vick never had a chance to get into a rhythm and no running lanes opened for Dunn or Duckett to run through. If you can't move the ball you can't win a game.

The defense was likely out of juice by the time the 3rd quarter came around. Having to run so much with not tackling and all.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:26 pm 
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yup....Knapp had to go and blow all of my confidance in him again....ugh...losing sucks so bad...

I can understand the draws on 3 and REALLY long, and I can even understand running the ball on 2nd and 10, but why must we throw the ball on first down every time...we are the #1 running team in the NFL and we pass the ball on almost every first down?!?!? I don't get it...


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 Post subject: Re: Greg Knapp
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:33 am 
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RdHdBirdFan wrote:
I vote we push him for the head coaching job in Detroit. Now. Tonight.

Sheesh.


Absolutely amazing.... on ESPN's Monday Countdown tonight, they had a list of people who might be up for a head coaching postition and Knapp was one of those listed!

Take him now, please.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:22 am 
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I actually like Knapp most of the time. He is a bit conservative & tends to call the worst possible play at the worst possible time, but about 95% of the time he does a good job. Who would we get if Knapp got a job elsewhere?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:56 am 
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If Knapp did manage to pull a head-coaching job, then I'd suspect the Falcons would try to find someone who has a history of running a similar offense to help continuity. So Vick doesn't have to re-learn a whole new system that is going to be another 2-3 year process.

Mariucci is an ideal fit because of his experience coaching top QBs (Favre & Young) and he is probably the greatest influence on the evolution of Knapp's offense.

Other names to throw out there are Greg Olson, who was recently promoted to OC in Detroit after Mooch's firing. He coached a year in San Fran with both Mooch and Knapp, so he has some knowledge.

Another name to really consider is Marty Mornhingweg. He was the predecessor of Knapp in San Fran. Sure he sucked as HC in Detroit, but he's been considered a solid OC. He is currently the Assistant Coach in Philly, so I'm not sure if moving to OC here in Atlanta is a lateral move. He'd be my ideal option since he's worked with Young, Garcia, and McNabb. But again, there's something about coaches changing teams without a promotion, and short of becoming a head coach or Asst. Coach here in Atlanta, I don't think we could get him.

So in all possibility, the Falcons would tap Alex Gibbs to become OC. He has had quite a bit of a hand in game-planning in the past, so he'd be the ideal person. But would he come back full-time, and is his fiery persona good fit as a OC, the guy that is going to be helping Vick? Probably not. Then it would most likely fall on current QB coach Mike Johnson. Johnson has coached Vick for the past 3 years and has been in Atlanta for 4. He's worked in both Reeves & Knapp's systems, and has as much knowledge of Vick's strengths and weaknesses as anybody in the world. But he's never been a coordinator before, so it would be a big challenge.

Whether you like him or not, Knapp departing Atlanta would be a pretty significant blow.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:23 pm 
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Pudge wrote:
Whether you like him or not, Knapp departing Atlanta would be a pretty significant blow.


I exert my right to strongly disagree with you. :) He hasn't scored a single point for the Falcons, but he HAS prevented them from scoring many times. My opinion, of course.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:37 pm 
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RdHdBirdFan wrote:
Pudge wrote:
Whether you like him or not, Knapp departing Atlanta would be a pretty significant blow.


I exert my right to strongly disagree with you. :) He hasn't scored a single point for the Falcons, but he HAS prevented them from scoring many times. My opinion, of course.


I agree with Pudge as installing yet another OC would further stunt Vick's growth. It would also continue to prove that Atlanta is unable to develop young quarterbacks and should never draft one again opting instead for an alread trained and well seasoned QB by another team. This will be known hence forth as the Favre Theorem.

I would also go further to say that if Knapp does depart Atlanta we will infact promote one of the assitant coaches to OC. Below are my personal choices for promotion if it becomes necessary:

Mike Johnson, QB Coach - Mentor to Mike Vick for the last few years and well versed in both the Reeves & Knapp offensive systems. Perhaps he can blend the two offenses to come up with something the NFL has never seen before that also plays to Vick's best skills.

George Stewart, WR Coach - Borderline legend as a receiver coach and the primary tutor to Terrell Owens (outside of Rice of course). Most his units over-achieved with exception to Atlanta. He knows Knapp's system well and has been a coach in it for a long time now.

Jeff Jagodzinski, OL Coach - He was brought in to learn how Alex Gibbs works and take over the offensive line while Gibbs became a part-time coach once again. He isn't as familiar with Knapp's system but he knows the offensive line and blocking schemes to a T. If he was to get promoted (which I doubt) Chris Dalman who also works with the offensive line and can still learn from Gibbs could take over the line.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:27 am 
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[quote="dirtybirdnw"]

I agree with Pudge as installing yet another OC would further stunt Vick's growth. quote]

Vick's growth? As his passing numbers have increased over tha last four games, how many games have they won? I don't call that growth.

That said, my dislike for Knapp goes way further than Vick. Two of the losses earlier this year I attribute directly to him with his incessant attempts to run Dunn up the gut and putting the birds 14 and 17 points down.

He is just too darned predicatable and that's it in a nutshell. He gets the team in trouble and then calls dumbass plays to try to salvage games and it just doesn't work.

Back to Vick, they need to let Vick be Vick. He's much more dangerous then.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:24 pm 
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dirtybirdnw wrote:
RdHdBirdFan wrote:
Pudge wrote:
Whether you like him or not, Knapp departing Atlanta would be a pretty significant blow.


I exert my right to strongly disagree with you. :) He hasn't scored a single point for the Falcons, but he HAS prevented them from scoring many times. My opinion, of course.

George Stewart, WR Coach - Borderline legend as a receiver coach and the primary tutor to Terrell Owens (outside of Rice of course). Most his units over-achieved with exception to Atlanta. He knows Knapp's system well and has been a coach in it for a long time now.



If Stewart was hired, then we would certainly pass more, making us more of a threat. Whomever we hire, they need to start throwing the long ball...If we can get a 1v1 matchup with Roddy White (Wrestler in HS and College)He would have a really good chance to catch it. But NO..GNAPP doesn't know the term "Long Ball"..."Run, run, RUN!"

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:29 pm 
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RdHdBirdFan wrote:
dirtybirdnw wrote:

I agree with Pudge as installing yet another OC would further stunt Vick's growth. quote]

Vick's growth? As his passing numbers have increased over tha last four games, how many games have they won? I don't call that growth.

That said, my dislike for Knapp goes way further than Vick. Two of the losses earlier this year I attribute directly to him with his incessant attempts to run Dunn up the gut and putting the birds 14 and 17 points down.

He is just too darned predicatable and that's it in a nutshell. He gets the team in trouble and then calls dumbass plays to try to salvage games and it just doesn't work.

Back to Vick, they need to let Vick be Vick. He's much more dangerous then.


If you don't see any growth in Vick this season then I wonder if you are even watching the games. Vick has been making headway in his passing and his overall decision making. Sometimes it may not appear that way in some games largely due to poor offensive line blocking. But Vick has improved and is no longer one of the reasons we are not winning.

Vick has posted QB Ratings of 102, 94, 83, 129, 102, 108, 99, and 86 this season. Yes Vick has 4 games that we should all try to wash from our minds. But Vick has been playing better and generating chemistry with his young receivers. He had no chemistry with Jenkins at the begining of the year now they seem to be clicking rather well.

The very nature of Vick means he will never fall under the elite passer QB. He will have some lights out games, a lot of good games, but will also have some forgettable games. But I saw Vick start slow and then have a truely horrid game against the Jets. Since then he has pretty much recovered and has been solid to great down the stretch. Unfortuantely the pass blocking and defense has been nothing less of horrid.

But the point was that letting Knapp go would stunt Vick's growth. It would. Bring in another new system and we will have to suffer through another year of transition and then another 2 to 3 years of adapting to the new system. Vick is poised to explode if we keep this system and Knapp in place. I do believe Knapp is holding Vick back to a degree. But not nearly as much as changing offensive systems would.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:05 pm 
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I think too many people believed that as soon as Vick start throwing well, it would automatically mean we'd be winning football games. And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't in that group. But alas, it seems that it is not the case.

But Vick has grown significantly as a passer. When people say, let Vick be Vick, I don't like it. Does it refer to the "old Vick?" Because the "old Vick" is an erratic passer that plays recklessly that opens him up to injuries.

Let Vick be Vick? I can guarantee you that if you asked Michael VIck the style of football he'd like to play, it's the "new school" rather than the old school. So if we really want him to be himself, then let him play the way he wants to play, which is the way he's playing now.

If you truly look at the games, "Old VIck" wouldn't have done anything different than New Vick to make us win those 3 games we've recently lost.

Old Vick wouldn't have stopped the Packers from getting a 14-0 lead. Old Vick wouldn't have stopped the Bucs from jumping out to a 13-0 lead. Old VIck wouldn't have made the OL block on Sunday or make our defense tackle better.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:23 am 
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Vick is definitely growing, and the Vick from the Bucs game will play until he is 35 unlike the Vick from other games who would be lucky to play until he was 30. That being said, we need to do a better job of protecting him. It seems like teams prefer it when we keep our backs in to block & they being their linebackers in force when we do that. I would rather get griffith & Dunn out of the backfield & exploit the mismatch those guys present in the passing game against most LB's. Still, we need an upgrade to our O-line if we're really interested in protecting our franchise player, because these guys (namely McClure, Lehr, & Shaffer) just cannot get it done & continue to make Vick look bad.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:44 pm 
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That and the Vick we saw against the Bucs would have never recovered to post his best game of the season after a disasterous first quarter. He would have completely imploded and gone to pure running.

Vick vs. Tampa (This Year): 21/38 (55%), 306 Yards Passing, 2 TD's, 14 Rushing Yards
Vick vs. Tampa (All Years Prior): 41/83 (49%), 506 Yards, 4 Passing TD's, 6 INT's, 202 Yards Rushing

Average wise for all years prior is 10/20 (50%), 126 Yards Passing, 1 Passing TD, 1.5 INT, 50 Rushing Yards

Vick was far better this time around then in prior years against Tampa. I did leave out the game that Vick only played 1 half against Tampa. That game would have made the averages even worse.

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